Can we ever truly trust the cruise lines?

[nosapphire]

Trust the cruise lines to do what?

Cruise lines are a business - like any other business, regardless of what else they may say, they need to make a profit.

Most of them also have shareholders that are expecting dividends and profits.

So while most of them will make efforts to keep their customers safe and happy, the customers will not be the main focus - the balance sheet is.

Few businesses will tell lies in order to mislead, but they will always put the best spin on things that they possibly can. That's why they have publicity departments - to play down the problems and highlight the benefits.

The cruise lines, the clubs, restaurants, amusement arcades, etc., etc that are trying to get customers handing over money are not being malicious, devious or underhand - they are trying to stay in business.

It only becomes a problem when people start to let the business do all the thinking for them and do not make their own decision on what level of risk, comfort, cost they are happy with.

 

[K32682]

3 hours ago, nosapphire said:

Trust the cruise lines to do what?

Cruise lines are a business - like any other business, regardless of what else they may say, they need to make a profit.

Most of them also have shareholders that are expecting dividends and profits.

So while most of them will make efforts to keep their customers safe and happy, the customers will not be the main focus - the balance sheet is.

Few businesses will tell lies in order to mislead, but they will always put the best spin on things that they possibly can. That's why they have publicity departments - to play down the problems and highlight the benefits.

The cruise lines, the clubs, restaurants, amusement arcades, etc., etc that are trying to get customers handing over money are not being malicious, devious or underhand - they are trying to stay in business.

It only becomes a problem when people start to let the business do all the thinking for them and do not make their own decision on what level of risk, comfort, cost they are happy with.

 

 

There's a difference between spin and deception.  Hurtigruten isolated 4 crew who were sick and had COVID-19. They let passengers leave the vessel to mingle in the community potentially spreading the virus.  Hurtigruten's spin now is that the crew's symptoms weren't COVID-19 symptoms when they actually were and now 36 other crew members are positive too. 

 

It is hardly an unreasonable expectation that the cruise line won't deliberately jeopardize the health of my family and friends. Hurtigruten bet the 4 crew didn't have COVID-19 and lost thereby putting at risk every single person on the ship and now every person in the community. 

 

If it were the first time it would be a rogue event but repeatedly the cruise lines during the pandemic have put dollars ahead of passenger and community safety. 

 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by K32682

[drsel]

If there is no trust and no one books Cruises for 2021 and 2022, how will the cruise lines survive?
We all want to enjoy cruising in the future, whenever that may be

[K32682]

20 minutes ago, drsel said:

If there is no trust and no one books Cruises for 2021 and 2022, how will the cruise lines survive?
We all want to enjoy cruising in the future, whenever that may be

 

They won't survive and don't deserve to if they put the health of passengers and their communities at risk.  I'm not about to set foot on a cruise ship if I suspect they will withhold information that could lead to me unknowingly infecting a friend or family member. 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by K32682

[cruisemom42]

34 minutes ago, drsel said:

If there is no trust and no one books Cruises for 2021 and 2022, how will the cruise lines survive?
We all want to enjoy cruising in the future, whenever that may be

 

Given the totality of the situation, would it be the worst thing in the world if some of the cruise lines don't survive?  I'm not about to risk my own life and health just to keep a corporation afloat....

 

Once this is all over, if there is a demand for cruising you can bet there will be a supply. Will they be the same corporations? Who knows -- frankly, it doesn't matter that much to me. I've seen three cruise lines that I really liked go "smash" already in my cruising career, and yet I keep finding new options.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by cruisemom42

[Joebucks]

18 hours ago, K32682 said:

 

Local grocery stores are an accepted risk because I need food.  They and restaurants are controlled locally by public health authorities. There is more accountability than a cruise line that deliberately chose to isolate sick crew, claim the symptoms weren't COVID,  administer tests after the passengers were allowed to disembark and discover the four crew and 29 others were positive.  Meanwhile, those passengers are circulating in the community potentially spreading the virus.  If a local grocery store or restaurant covered up sick staff and didn't tell customers until well after the fact where I live they'd be shut down.

 

The behavior of cruise lines through the pandemic has left a lot to be desired.  They need to rebuild some trust with passengers and regulatory authorities and the recent conduct of Hurtigruten is a very poor start. 

 

 

Not that I necessarily am disagreeing with most of what you said. However, any of us who have spent anytime working with the public, know how sickness usually pans out. Contrary to those who think everyone sick will just stay home. Few are out there actively looking for problems. Having the stigma, losing staff, and having an unpaid quarantine for 14 days isn't going to have people shouting from the rooftops that "I have COVID" in many areas.

 

At that point, it becomes a lazy argument that places like grocery get the pass because they are essential, and cruises are bad because they are not. A virus and people's livelihoods don't know the different as easily as the internet does.

[LHT28]

maybe it is the pax  who are at fault

 

Just look at Florida & Texas   are they staying home  & trying to control the virus ?

 

 

[drsel]

I would certainly never sail on this particular line, but we should not fault others for the transgressions of one particular cruise line

[K32682]

46 minutes ago, drsel said:

I would certainly never sail on this particular line, but we should not fault others for the transgressions of one particular cruise line

 

Except that it's not just one line.  Ruby Princess, Diamond Princess, Westerdam, Amsterdam, cruises departing in early March weeks after the Diamond was quarantined, virus concerns downplayed to encourage bookings, refusal to extend refunds to passengers concerned about the virus, crews stranded in foreign parts and now a cruise line that knew 4 crew were ill, isolated them and when they were diagnosed positive claimed the symptoms didn't look like COVID when they actually were.

 

All the while, companies make soothing noises about the safety of their cruises and continue to take bookings.  

[K32682]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

maybe it is the pax  who are at fault

 

Just look at Florida & Texas   are they staying home  & trying to control the virus ?

 

 

 

It is unlikely there was anyone from Florida or Texas on the ship but even if there were it does not excuse the cruise line from conduct that may precipitate an outbreak of the virus in Norway.  They knew crew were ill and ordered them into isolation.  After the passengers departed they tested positive along with 32 other crew and the cruise line would have us believe the symptoms of the original 4 didn't suggest COVID even though they had the virus at the time.  

[Hlitner]

3 hours ago, drsel said:

If there is no trust and no one books Cruises for 2021 and 2022, how will the cruise lines survive?
We all want to enjoy cruising in the future, whenever that may be

You may have answered your own question?  Perhaps they will not survive and so be it!  My love of cruising goes back over 40 years (and more then 3 years on ships as passengers) but DW and I would forego all future cruising if we no longer had faith in the industry or thought that new mitigation procedures took the fun/pleasure out of that form of travel.  We are avid travelers first and cruisers second so we would just make the adjustment to our travel venues and schedule and move one with life.  

 

I have not seen anything from any of the mass market lines (we are talking larger ships over 600 passengers) that give me faith in the industry.  I fear that there are no good options until (or if) there is a safe/effective vaccine and the cruise lines mandate that everyone be vaccinated for both COVID and Flu.  The days of compromising on the use of vaccines are over for the cruise industry and perhaps for much of the travel world.  Those that are anti-vaccine will simply have to live with the restrictions that may result.  For those folks I would simply say that decisions often come with consequences and mandatory vaccinations is not a new concept in travel.

 

If there is not a safe/effective COVID vaccine, and the virus continues its march through the world then I fear that the entire mass market cruise industry will be history within the next 2 years.

 

Hank

[drsel]

I would hate to see all those beautiful, brand new multi billion-dollar ships being sold as scrap

[drsel]

Luckily the beautiful PO Oceana was not scrapped, but sold to a Greek buyer who has real plans for it.

 

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

8 minutes ago, drsel said:

Luckily the beautiful PO Oceana was not scrapped, but sold to a Greek buyer who has real plans for it.

 

 

 

 

Same with the four HAL ships that recently departed their fleet. None are headed to the breakers, at least not yet.

[navybankerteacher]

Just now, cruisemom42 said:

Same with the four HAL ships that recently departed their fleet. None are headed to the breakers, at least not yet.

I suspect that, once cruising does resume, there will be need for that size ship due to a fundamental change in the market.  Logical or not, I think many will vote with their $ in favor of smaller ships,

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

It is unlikely there was anyone from Florida or Texas on the ship but even if there were it does not excuse the cruise line from conduct that may precipitate an outbreak of the virus in Norway.  They knew crew were ill and ordered them into isolation.  After the passengers departed they tested positive along with 32 other crew and the cruise line would have us believe the symptoms of the original 4 didn't suggest COVID even though they had the virus at the time.  

I think you missed the point

Of course there were no Americans onboard  they cannot get the virus cases  under control in their own Country so not many Countries are going to let them in to spread the virus

 

 

[drsel]

Same with the four HAL ships that recently departed their fleet. None are headed to the breakers, at least not yet.

2 HAL ships are bought by Fred Olsen, what about the other 2?

[SelectSys]

On 8/1/2020 at 9:36 AM, iancal said:

Trust the cruise lines?   I believe that we should judge them by their past actions.  Especially the ones leading up to covid.

 

Why would I trust a cruise line any more that I would an automobile manufacturer?

 

Absolutely, judge someone/something by their actions rather than words.  Any large organization acts in its own interests, including governments.

 

23 hours ago, chipmaster said:

Cruiselines are in the business of maximum extraction of money from their passengers, is that an organization that you can trust totally..

 

if they could get away with something they most surely will.

 

Agreed on making money.  However, I don't think a "screw the customer" attitude works well long term in business.  These are stressful times for all travel-related businesses and I am sure more mistakes will be made.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by SelectSys

[cruisemom42]

21 minutes ago, drsel said:

1 hour ago, cruisemom42 said:

Same with the four HAL ships that recently departed their fleet. None are headed to the breakers, at least not yet.

2 HAL ships are bought by Fred Olsen, what about the other 2?

 

Whoever the purchaser is has not formally made an announcement; however, odds are that it Blue Seas Cruises, who shortly after the announcement from Holland America put up silhouette images of the ships that look very similar to Maasdam and Veendam on their website.

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by cruisemom42

[Charles4515]

Covid case on Paul Gauguin

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23323-paul-gauguin-has-a-covid-19-case.html


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[chipmaster]

1 hour ago, SelectSys said:

 

Absolutely, judge someone/something by their actions rather than words.  Any large organization acts in its own interests, including governments.

 

 

Agreed on making money.  However, I don't think a "screw the customer" attitude works well long term in business.  These are stressful times for all travel-related businesses and I am sure more mistakes will be made.

 

 

"screw" is on the slippery slope, all business are for maximum profit for investment, part of that is focus on customer experience and those that really maximize that will be rewarded with repeat business.   

 

My memories of some cruise line with people running around at sailway with tempting drinks at crazy prices was an experience that I will remember and make sure given a choice I don't return to that ship.   

 

I fully understand the need to pay and for business to make a profit. 

[chipmaster]

15 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

I can almost understand that back in the early days of the pandemic before the full extent was appreciated.  But after all we have been through and what we know now, for a cruise line to do something similar now is just incredible to me.  

 

My take they knew enough early own and didn't exercise any "abundance of caution" they did the absolute minimum.

[K32682]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

Covid case on Paul Gauguin

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23323-paul-gauguin-has-a-covid-19-case.html
 

 

This is interesting because the passengers are quarantined on board.  Is this the scenario Hurtigruten was trying to avoid? 

 

It much easier to concoct a nonsense story after the passengers disembarked about the symptoms of 4 crew members not looking like COVID when they were actually positive (along with 32 of their shipmates.)  Hurtigruten would then not be responsible for quarantining the passengers and having to feed and care for them.  Hurtigruten gives every indication it turned a blind eye to the situation and as a result hundreds of exposed passengers are in the community potentially spreading the virus.   

 

 

Edited August 2, 2020 by K32682

[SelectSys]

1 hour ago, chipmaster said:

...

My memories of some cruise line with people running around at sailway with tempting drinks at crazy prices was an experience that I will remember and make sure given a choice I don't return to that ship.   

...

 

The low base fares needed to be compensated somehow...  Sort of like ultra discount airlines.  People hate them and yet flock to them.

 

The good news previously with cruises was that it had been fairly easy to avoid the extra charges.  We'll see what happens in the future.  My expectation is higher prices and lower services levels until things are well sorted out.

 

 

 

[jocap]

4 hours ago, drsel said:

Luckily the beautiful PO Oceana was not scrapped, but sold to a Greek buyer who has real plans for it.

 

 

 

 

Originally Ocean Princess, in 2000, and transferred to P&O as Oceana in 2002.

Now named Queen of the Oceans, she will be a ferry in the Cyclades.

Also Costa de Romantica, another Carnival ship, has been bought by Celestyal, becoming their largest cruise ship.