Star Princess Balcony Fire

[Heidi13]

New thread, per the discussion and suggestion that we start a new thread for this unfortunate incident. I should note that I had already left Princess by then, but have certainly discussed it with some officers who were onboard.

 

Here is the MAIB report, which I read many years ago and when I have a chance will have another read.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c706ae5274a4290000097/Star_Princess.pdf

 

From memory, the exact cause was not determined, but most likely was a cigarette, whether left on a balcony, or thrown over the side from a higher deck. Throwing cigarettes over the side is one of the greatest fire risks onboard a ship. Back in those days, the balcony materials were not regulated, with respect to fire load, smoke and gases as were the materials inside the ship. Balconies also did not have a fixed fire protection system installed (Hi-Fog/Sprinkler)

 

When the fire started, it spread rapidly and the crew had extreme difficulty gaining access, to establish a boundary and eventually extinguish the flames. Knew one of the fire team leaders and he mentioned it was an extreme challenge getting safe access to contain.

 

This was also a scenario that was never included in drills. The fire teams actually did an amazing job, under the circumstances.

 

I need to read the report again, but recall something about using all the SCBA bottles, so they had to be refilled. The reason I recalled this situation, is because I experienced a similar situation with a laundry room fire on either Sun or Island Princess. We used all our SCBA bottles, so closed up the area, boundary cooled and let it burn itself out.

[rkacruiser]

18 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

New thread, per the discussion and suggestion that we start a new thread for this unfortunate incident

 

Thank you for doing this!  I will read the report as well when I have time to properly do so.  (Today has been filled with several unexpected issues including an extremely lengthy update from Microsoft for my computer's Windows 10.)

[CGTNORMANDIE]

Great topic Heidi!  Too bad more CC's don't look at this site.  

 

Star Princess:  Bottom Line:  Everything that could have gone wrong...went wrong. 

Corridor doors wedged open, balcony doors opened by pax, fire inaccessible to fire hoses, ship positioning in wind, etc. etc. to name a few. 

[rkacruiser]

I appreciated reading the report, Heidi13!  Thanks for posting it.

 

When I sailed on Star Princess, my balcony cabin was in the vicinity of the fire.  I don't recall its exact location, but I am certain that it was in Zone 3 or 4.  I think on Baja Deck.  

 

Regarding the polypropylene tile used on the balcony's deck, when I first stepped out onto my balcony in Port Everglades, that was the first thing that I noticed that was different from the balconies that I had on other ships.  I did not like it.  It was not comfortable to walk on.  In comparison to other balcony deck coverings, it seemed "cheap" and probably was.  Unfortunately, such material made a contribution to the fatality and injuries guests suffered.  

 

The conclusion that the cigarette that possibly started the fire came from another cabin and not the one where the fire began even though the guests in that cabin were smokers was interesting.  (I can imagine a scenario where someone on a higher deck (or on the same deck) steps out onto the balcony for a late night smoke and carelessly throws the butt overboard.)  Such a conclusion ought to provide the guests in that cabin some consolation that "they" did not cause the accident.  

 

I have wondered if the fire had broken through on Deck 14, the Lido Deck, might it have spread horizontally on that top deck?  One photo shows damage done to the deck as well as mentioning the need to erect fire hoses to help to cool that deck.  I think that could have made a very bad situation much worse.

 

My Muster Station (as best as I can tell from current deck plans because the interior does seem to have been altered since I sailed) was in the area of the Crown Grill.  I remember tables and couch type seating as well as other types of seating.  (Maybe Muster Station B?)  Muster was well done; there were many guests in that area.  I did not realize until I read the report how long the guests were at their Station.  

 

What would the guests' experience be in a situation that lasted that long?  Restroom needs?  Need for water and food since it lasted well into mid-morning?  Since the Master kept people well informed that might have reduced the whining and complaining, I would hope.  

 

Door stops left in a cabin by the Cabin Steward is something that I have still seen recently.  I cannot say it has been on every ship that I have sailed since 2006, but such an item is still in use by some Cabin Stewards on some ships.

 

Reactions to my comments?  I want to do some additional reflection on what I read and probably a re-read.  (Trying to remember where I put my 2005 Star Princess "stuff" and I want to try to find that as well.)  

 

 

[Heidi13]

Unfortunately I haven't had an opportunity to re-read the report, as we are currently in Victoria with our 5 yr old grandson for a week.

 

To respond to your question about spreading to Deck 14 - the interior spaces of the ship are covered by a Hi-fog system, which is extremely effective in knocking down fire, in an enclosed space. Unfortunately, hi-fog is not effective on open balconies, so was not installed.

 

It is an extremely high pressure water system at > 3,000 psi. It has small diameter pipes filled with fresh water, with large banks of huge pumps. It delivers an extremely fine water mist that both rapidly cools and starves the fire of Oxygen. Most importantly, unlike CO2, it is a liveable atmosphere for the fire fighters.

 

Basically, it knocks fire down in seconds.

 

We used a couple of RCI films to prove the effectiveness. Can't recall the ship names, but they both experienced a fuel line crack that flashed on a hot manifold. The pre- Hi fog ship had a significant fire before CO2 could be deployed, as E/R vents must be closed first and all engineers accounted for. Result - significant damage and a few weeks out of service. Cost - tens of millions.

 

Similar fire on a Hi-fog ship - fire flashed and almost immediately the Hi-fog deployed. Fire extinguished < 30 secs. Total cost was about $500 for a new sensor.

 

Therefore, if the fire reached Deck 14 - if interior spaces hi-fog would have quickly knock down the flames and if open deck, the fire team could easily contain and knock it down, provided the Captain managed the apparent wind.

[rkacruiser]

17 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

the interior spaces of the ship are covered by a Hi-fog system, which is extremely effective in knocking down fire, in an enclosed space. Unfortunately, hi-fog is not effective on open balconies, so was not installed.

 

The report describes the Hi-fog system quite well and provides visual evidence as to how effective it was when it was activated.  In one stateroom, the bulb was found on the floor of the stateroom and the system had not been activated in that stateroom.  The room was much more seriously damaged with the alleyway door buckled and was in danger of failing.  That stateroom also saw a re-kindling of the fire that was quickly extinguished.  

 

17 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

herefore, if the fire reached Deck 14 - if interior spaces hi-fog would have quickly knock down the flames and if open deck, the fire team could easily contain and knock it down, provided the Captain managed the apparent wind.

 

Your answer resolves a concern that I have had for a long time.  I understood that the fire had breached the vertical fire divisions of the ship before it was extinguished.  My concern was that if the fire reached the open deck on Deck 14, would it have spread across that deck and began to impact the Starboard side of the ship.   

[Heidi13]

19 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your answer resolves a concern that I have had for a long time.  I understood that the fire had breached the vertical fire divisions of the ship before it was extinguished.  My concern was that if the fire reached the open deck on Deck 14, would it have spread across that deck and began to impact the Starboard side of the ship.   

 

While fighting the fire on the balconies, they had already establish boundary cooling up on Dk 14, with multiple hoses. Should the fire have reached the open deck, they were already well prepared to prevent further spread.

[Heidi13]

Just realised that the previous link I posted didn't include the annexes, which basically double the length of the report. Here is a link.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c706be5274a428d00009d/Star_Princess_Annexes.pdf

[rkacruiser]

23 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Just realised that the previous link I posted didn't include the annexes, which basically double the length of the report. Here is a link.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c706be5274a428d00009d/Star_Princess_Annexes.pdf

 

Thanks for doing this.  I will read those as I have time.  It took quite awhile just to read the report without the annexes.  

[Heidi13]

I have had a quick read of the report, so here are some of my thoughts:

• Considering that the incident took place about 03:00 when the majority of crew were asleep, the initial response was both timely and proficient. Within 3 minutes of the initial report, the Senior 2nd Officer (12-4 SOOW) had called the Assessment Party, and received confirmation of the fire within 3 minutes on the VHF.
• The report frequently compliments the Senior 1st Officer (S/1/O), who heads the Assessment Party and fire fighting efforts throughout the vessel, except for Engineering spaces. Immediately calling for Crew Alert, probably before the Master even reached the Bridge, started deploying stairway guides, etc which saved time in activating the GES to muster the pax.
• The report didn't discuss much of the Command & Control between Staff Captain & S/1/O, but it must have been impressive, as the deployment of fire-fighting & boundary cooling teams were exceptional in very difficult circumstances that had never been drilled. Getting this fire extinguished in 60 to 90 minutes was incredible, as I know from chatting with a member of the fire party, it was extremely challenging, especially getting access and handling hoses.
• Managing the apparent wind - I believe was handled expeditiously, although some may say the S/2/O could have started this process immediately. However, we are always taught not to act on scanty information and until the Master/Staffy arrived the initial workload on the Bridge is extensive.

Challenges:

• E/R fire party - one member did not have turnout gear that fitted. I found this most surprising, especially with the relatively low crew turnover. On my Ro/Pax our crew changed daily and on boarding the vessel, each member of the fire party were expected to check the status of their SCBA and select and hang turnout gear that fitted them. We had a variety of sizes, so they selected ones that fit and hung them by their SCBA.
• Use of Thermal Image Camera helmet - again I am surprised this was not assigned to a specific member of the fire party.
• Use of non-English communication unfortunately is a long standing problem since Princess mixed the Italian & British Officers. Prior to this incident, when our son was a Deck Cadet, he was sent to the Alaska Fire Fighting facility with the Engineering Fire Party. Not only was he the only Deck department rep, he was the only English speaker. Throughout most of the exercise most communications were in Italian.
• No response to calling 911. I am surprised that the emergency duties during crew alert had not addressed maintaining a response to pax 911 calls, or even calls to the Purser's Desk.
• The roll call has always been one of my biggest concerns, as it is almost impossible to train/drill under realistic conditions. The report covered these challenges reasonably well.
• An area I don't recall reading was whether feedback was provided to the Staffy regarding the fact that the hotel crew were unable to access the FZ's 3 and 4 alleyways to check and clear those cabins. My understanding of the system is that hotel crew check cabins are clear, with each section leader reporting the results to a central location, with a final report sent to Staffy. In this situation, I would expect the Section Leaders of the smoke filled areas to report unable to access, with that information immediately passed on to Staffy, who would then assign some Deck/Engineering assets to complete a systematic search. This may have happened, but I don't recall reading about it in the report.
• This incident is the classic example for one of the merits of inside v's outside muster points. Standing on the outer decks for up to 7 hrs would not have been fun, especially since many could be wearing PJ's.  

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

This incident is the classic example for one of the merits of inside v's outside muster points. Standing on the outer decks for up to 7 hrs would not have been fun, especially since many could be wearing PJ's.  

 

Having to do so would have resulted in more casualties, I think.  Even in my prime, having to stand on an outside deck, such as on a HAL Lower Promenade Deck for such a length of time, would have been most difficult, if not impossible.  And, at least on such HAL ships that require such Mustering, there are so many people at the Muster Station trying to sit down on the deck would not be realistic.  

 

The Prinsendam I tragedy showed that guests, when summoned to their Muster Station, do not take the time to dress appropriately.  

 

5 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

The roll call has always been one of my biggest concerns, as it is almost impossible to train/drill under realistic conditions

 

If there has any been any significant improvement in the Muster Drill procedure is the recent introduction of the electronic reader of the guest's cruise card when they arrive at their Station.  

 

Heidi13, I have not yet had time to read the Annexes that you posted.  I'll get to them.  

[rkacruiser]

On 8/15/2020 at 4:36 PM, Heidi13 said:

Just realised that the previous link I posted didn't include the annexes, which basically double the length of the report. Here is a link.

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c706be5274a428d00009d/Star_Princess_Annexes.pdf

 

I got to read the Annexes this afternoon.  

 

Annex D

 

The Warsash Reconstruction--The photos and time line of the progression of the start of the fire was sobering to view and read.  How quickly the event unfolded and how quickly the dense, black smoke began.  If the Security Patrol that initially smelled something burning and reported that to the OOW had been able to determine the cause of that smell, a quicker response would have probably caused less damage, loss of a life, and the injuries.  I wonder if a Lookout on the Bridge or the OOW had looked out the Bridge wing windows when that report was received, would they been able to see what has happening and sounded the alarm sooner.  

 

The recommendation for a television surveillance system to be installed caused me to realize another reason for such a system to be present.  I have assumed that that system located on the outside of the ship was to help detect those who might go overboard.  I never considered that being able to watch for the development of a fire would also be a reason to have such a system.  Is this system monitored by the Security Office, by the OOW/Lookouts, or both?  

 

If I ever get to participate in another Bridge Tour, I am going to pay more attention to the Safety Center area behind the Bridge.  Radars, navigation equipment, engine controls, etc. are important, of course, and are the "standard" kinds of things that are emphasized on most Bridge Tours,  The Safety Center is sometimes shown or at least alluded to, but this report really details how important its functions are.  

 

A question about the Muster Stations:  The report indicated that there is an Officer assigned to each Muster Station.  When I sailed on Star Princess, I recall seeing none.  On HAL, there is a Deck Officer "roaming" around the various Muster Stations; usually they are Junior Officers or even a Cadet.  Once in awhile, I'll notice a Second Officer and once the Staff Captain walked by.  On MSC Meraviglia, my Muster Station was the main Theater and there were no Officers present during the Muster Drill.  (I was at the back of the room near the entrance/exit and would have seen any if they had been there.)  Does the presence of an Officer vary by cruise line policy?  Does the position held by the Officer, i.e. Third Officer, Cadet, etc. vary by cruise line policy?  

 

The information about Muster Drill procedure on Star Princess was interesting.  I have no recollection in 2005 if a Roll Call was done or not.  Based on what I read, it wasn't.  When I sailed on Royal Princess a 2-3 years ago, a Roll Call was conducted at my Muster Station, so that must be a change to the Princess Cruises practice.  (I was very impressed with how that Muster Drill was conducted.)

 

Lots to think about in the report!

[Heidi13]

20 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

A question about the Muster Stations:  The report indicated that there is an Officer assigned to each Muster Station.  When I sailed on Star Princess, I recall seeing none.  On HAL, there is a Deck Officer "roaming" around the various Muster Stations; usually they are Junior Officers or even a Cadet.  Once in awhile, I'll notice a Second Officer and once the Staff Captain walked by.  On MSC Meraviglia, my Muster Station was the main Theater and there were no Officers present during the Muster Drill.  (I was at the back of the room near the entrance/exit and would have seen any if they had been there.)  Does the presence of an Officer vary by cruise line policy?  Does the position held by the Officer, i.e. Third Officer, Cadet, etc. vary by cruise line policy?  

 

Princess give out "Officer" designations/perks to a multitude of crew, so when the report mentions that an officer is assigned to each Muster Station, it is unlikely to be a Deck Officer or even a Cadet. Most of them have other duties involving the navigation, fire-fighting, boundary cooling, preparing lifesaving equipment, etc.

 

When our son worked for Princess, on one of the ships when he was 3rd Officer, his cabin was in the traditional area, just aft of the Bridge. I noted the cabin next to him designated as "Band Leader", which surprised me, that not only was he in an officer cabin, but also up by the Deck Officers. Son advised that the Band leader, Head Dancer, Photog Mgr, Spa Mgr, etc are all considered as 2-stripe officers. Although they weren't paid as well as the 3rd Officers, technically they had a higher rank on board.

 

Therefore, when Princess state they have an officer in each Assembly Station, it could be one of the Pursers Staff, cruise staff, or even one of the aforementioned quasi 2-stripes.

 

This is another reason why I like Viking, as the Certificated Officers all have Gold stripes and non-certificated managers/supervisors have silver stripes. Only Deck, Engineering and Medical have Gold stripes, while all the hotel side have silver.

[rkacruiser]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

Therefore, when Princess state they have an officer in each Assembly Station, it could be one of the Pursers Staff, cruise staff, or even one of the aforementioned quasi 2-stripes.

 

Your entire answer to my question is quite interesting.  I keep learning!

 

Would it be fair to say that who an "Officer" or "Officer designate" for a Muster Drill might be varies from cruise line to cruise line?  I am thinking of my experience on MSC Meraviglia.  There was a crew member---way down in front of where I was sitting in the back of the Theater--who was on the PA, wearing a lifejacket and a cap with a title that I couldn't read, and seemed to be "in charge" of that Station.  Perhaps, she was the "Officer" responsible for that Muster Station.    

[Heidi13]

18 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

Your entire answer to my question is quite interesting.  I keep learning!

 

Would it be fair to say that who an "Officer" or "Officer designate" for a Muster Drill might be varies from cruise line to cruise line?  I am thinking of my experience on MSC Meraviglia.  There was a crew member---way down in front of where I was sitting in the back of the Theater--who was on the PA, wearing a lifejacket and a cap with a title that I couldn't read, and seemed to be "in charge" of that Station.  Perhaps, she was the "Officer" responsible for that Muster Station.    

Affirmative, it can vary by cruise line. To further compound the issue is that companies have different standards for epaulettes, so identifying officers isn't straight forward.

 

P&O/Princess were, and I believe still use distinctive rank insignia for officers. On the blues jacket no insignia was worn on the sleeve, as shoulder epaulettes with rank insignia were stitched onto the shoulders. This was consistent with shirts and wooly poolys. The P&O stripes were thicker than other companies and also straight, even for deck and engineering. Departments were designated by colours between the stripes:

• Black - Deck
• Purple - Engineering
• Green - Radio/Electronics
• Red - Medical
• White - Pursers

Traditionally in the Merchant Navy, certificated Deck & Engineering Officers had a diamond incorporated into the stripes. Other companies provide anchors or props to differentiate between deck & engineering.

 

So even seeing the epaulettes doesn't always helping in identifying an officer, unless you know that company's standard. With respect to the Officer on MSC, I would expect she was from the hotel, as I doubt they have sufficient deck officers to assign to each muster station. I also note that unlike my time on cruise ships, the deck officers have minimal contact with pax, so they probably wouldn't be the best option in that role, especially the junior ones.

 

 

[rkacruiser]

7 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

I also note that unlike my time on cruise ships, the deck officers have minimal contact with pax, so they probably wouldn't be the best option in that role, especially the junior ones.

 

 

 

At social gatherings on HAL ships where Junior Officers are present, most are obviously "uncomfortable" being present.  All of these gentlemen and gentlewoman with whom I have tried to interact from time to time are willing to do so.  But, as a guest, one surely has to be the instigator of the contact and the conversation.  (And expect such conversation to be very short!)  

 

I once heard a senior Officer say in response to a question about the presence of these Junior Officers that if they expect to try to become more senior, their social skills with the guests need to be developed or they need to look for a position on a tanker/freighter/etc.  

[Heidi13]

 

Sadly, I believe the inability of Deck Officers to meet & mingle is only going to get worse. When I started as a cadet, we were expected to be on deck every evening, if not on watch. Attendance at the Captain's Cocktail parties was also mandatory and we had to stand at the end of the receiving line, taking pax over to a waiter and engaging in small talk for a few minutes, before heading back to the receiving line.

 

We also conducted Bridge visits every 1/2 hr on most sea days between about 09:00 & 11:00 and 13:00 & 15:00.

 

On our last Princess cruise, at the returning pax cocktail party, I noted a 2/O and 3/O standing together at the back of the room. Just talking to themselves, showing no interest in pax. I took it upon myself to engage them in conversation - it was pitiful, as they were unable to engage in small talk. Very quickly, they came up with the Bridge calling excuse and disappeared.

 

I recall visiting our son on his first ship when they arrived in Vancouver. He had been aboard 2 months, as a 1st trip cadet, when I noted his mess kit had never been worn. He mentioned that they weren't expected to attend cocktail parties and the reason they were never on pax decks is that any drinks ordered from a pax bar were charged at full price. In my day, provided we were active on deck, we never paid for a drink. 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

t was pitiful, as they were unable to engage in small talk. 

 

Social skills in our society are in retreat.  Why should one learn how to "converse" when one can "text"?