MSC Not Tolerating Violation of New C-19 Health Protocols

[ECCruise]

2 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Don’t like the protocols, stay home.  Obviously lots of scared people in the world.

803,000 not scared any longer.

[vulcan1971]

2 hours ago, ECCruise said:

803,000 not scared any longer.

 

@ECCruise - your point is well taken, at least by me.

 

@Pinboy - what exactly did you find funny about this post?

[Pinboy]

Just now, vulcan1971 said:

 

@ECCruise - your point is well taken, at least by me.

 

@Pinboy - what exactly did you find funny about this post?

Oh --- 

My bad-- I meant to click " Thanks " --- 

[WonderMan3]

On 8/21/2020 at 8:37 PM, npcl said:

To put this in perspective Germany's daily number (7 day moving aver is 1287, up from their low this summer of 340.  Spain is currently at 3441, down from a recent peak of 4910.  Considering their populations German is 15.3 per million per day.  Spain is at 73.2 per million per day.  Italy (which is the home country of MSC) is up a bit at 555 per day which yields 9.25 per million per day.

 

Compared to the US at 46,589, down from the recent peak of 69,328, which is at 137 per million per day.  

 

If their policies are the cause for their numbers maybe we should just copy them.

Not sure why statistics for the U.S. were brought into this when I did not reference the U.S. at all. My country is a giant dumpster fire where COVID is concerned but is kind of irrelevant to what I was commenting on.
 

My point was that countries that had this thing under control are seeing upticks now because people are getting more lax by vacationing, cruise lines operating again, etc.

[npcl]

1 hour ago, WonderMan3 said:

Not sure why statistics for the U.S. were brought into this when I did not reference the U.S. at all. My country is a giant dumpster fire where COVID is concerned but is kind of irrelevant to what I was commenting on.
 

My point was that countries that had this thing under control are seeing upticks now because people are getting more lax by vacationing, cruise lines operating again, etc.

Largely because of this comment you made

 

Guess that explains why I literally just watched a news story talking about how Germany and Spain just had their highest spike of cases since the spring.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/20/coronavirus-germany-spain-record-highest-daily-cases-since-april.html

 

Which in context of the message you were responding to, implied that the use of shields in German establishments might be the cause of their up tick.

 

This is the message you responded to which was almost exclusively about the use of face shields

 

 

In the hospitality business in Germany and Italy (we just returned from a week in italy today) the face shields shown and even smaller ones worn above the chin, barely over mouth and nose, are accepted. You (or I) might not like it, but that’s how it is. 
So they are not breaking any rules or any promise.

 

 

So I pointed out that even with the uptick their numbers with use of shields (as with many of the other European countries) is substantially better than in our country.   I find it a bit interesting about people critiquing the standards that other countries choose to put in place, as if ours were the gold standard. Those that are complaining about MSC using shields on their waiters.

 

However, I certainly agree that as countries open up, especially when travel is involved, they will face additional challenges and issues in maintaining control

Edited August 23, 2020 by npcl

[Doubt It]

In this day and age, assume nothing.

 

MSC's voyage has much baggage attached to it re: cruise industry.

 

Nothing, nothing is beyond the realm of reality. 

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, Doubt It said:

In this day and age, assume nothing.

 

MSC's voyage has much baggage attached to it re: cruise industry.

 

Nothing, nothing is beyond the realm of reality. 

Could you clarify your comments? It isn't clear to me what you are trying to say. Thanks.

[sanger727]

On 8/22/2020 at 4:24 PM, Gracie115 said:

Take a look at this video that goes into great depth on what MSC did to make the ship safe, at a cost of 500,000 pounds for the week.  I KNOW I would feel safe on that ship.

 

 

 

While I understand the argument being made that this is an Italian ship only open to Italians right now who consider face shields as valid PPE as face masks.

 

From the video there were many of the food service workers in face shields only, and I personally would not feel comfortable on this ship with that being the case. Basically just funneling down their germs onto your food. Not a fan.

[Miaminice]

2 hours ago, sanger727 said:

From the video there were many of the food service workers in face shields only, and I personally would not feel comfortable on this ship with that being the case. Basically just funneling down their germs onto your food. Not a fan.

Let’s just take for granted that staff won’t sneeze or drip right onto your food... they could breathe on it as long as they want, you getting infected with Covid by it would not just be extremely unlikely, it would be close to a miracle.

[sanger727]

Just now, Miaminice said:

Let’s just take for granted that staff won’t sneeze or drip right onto your food... they could breathe on it as long as they want, you getting infected with Covid by it would not just be extremely unlikely, it would be close to a miracle.

 

I"m not even limiting it to COVID at this point. Any face shield that directs exhalations, sneezes, coughs, etc towards my food carries risk of spreading disease. It would be a whole lot more difficult to shield your unexpected sneeze or cough into your elbow with one of those shields on.

[Doubt It]

20 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Could you clarify your comments? It isn't clear to me what you are trying to say. Thanks.

 

Hi Fouremco.  We just love the Ottawa Senators, went to games for many, many seasons. Walking to the arena in the frozen snow and wind was not nice, despite the covered tunnel they built. Just loved Wade Redden. Moved and now in nicer winter weather.

 

I meant that do Not automatically believe the press from companies and corporations. There could be many reasons for the issuing of a story like the family not allowed on MSC because of the need for "tough love" from a for profit organization. What they say is Not necessarily the truth.

Also, the MSC experiment has a lot of baggage as it impacts the other cruise lines ie fail or success on relaunch and the impact on Profits.

 

[Fouremco]

1 minute ago, Doubt It said:

 

Hi Fouremco.  We just love the Ottawa Senators, went to games for many, many seasons. Walking to the arena in the frozen snow and wind was not nice, despite the covered tunnel they built. Just loved Wade Redden. Moved and now in nicer winter weather.

bye that arena

I meant that do Not automatically believe the press from companies and corporations. There could be many reasons for the issuing of a story like the family not allowed on MSC because of the need for "tough love" from a for profit organization. What they say is Not necessarily the truth.

Also, the MSC experiment has a lot of baggage as it impacts the other cruise lines ie fail or success on relaunch and the impact on Profits.

 

OK, understood. I don't agree with your theory about the family, but your clarification is appreciated.

 

As for the Sens, not a great year on or off the ice, but I remain optimistic. Living in the most eastern reaches of Orleans, I don't get to games as often as I'd like, but maybe that arena for Lebreton Flats will eventually be built. 

[drowelf]

On 8/23/2020 at 9:36 AM, Pinboy said:

If you were the family that was " booted off the ship for not obeying their rules because of your " entitlement " , would you go public with it ?  

 

 

It could be the families wish to simply crawl under a rock and hope for this to go away as fast as possible. 🤪

 

Not everyone immediately runs to the press to shout to the world about how they feel wronged or slighted by a third parties actions. 

[Pinboy]

26 minutes ago, Doubt It said:

We just love the Ottawa Senators,

that arena for Lebreton Flats will eventually be built. 

 

LOL---I'll try to keep my comments relating to " cruising " .

So do about 5000 season ticket holders ,  ( most of whom enjoy cruising ) , where the arena holds 20,000.

I thought the Lebreton Flats deal fell through while both parties to the deal were on a cruise .

 

 

 

[Pinboy]

Just now, drowelf said:

It could be the families wish to simply crawl under a rock and hope for this to go away as fast as possible. 🤪

 

Not everyone immediately runs to the press to shout to the world about how they feel wronged or slighted by a third parties actions. 

How could they feel they were wronged ?

They didn't abide by the rules and the Captain of the ship ordered them off .

 

[Fouremco]

47 minutes ago, Pinboy said:

LOL---I'll try to keep my comments relating to " cruising " .

So do about 5000 season ticket holders ,  ( most of whom enjoy cruising ) , where the arena holds 20,000.

I thought the Lebreton Flats deal fell through while both parties to the deal were on a cruise .

 

 

 

Gee, that wasn't the case before your Canadiens were knocked out of the playoffs! 😎 

[Dermotsgirl]

1 minute ago, Dwight1 said:

I wonder. MSC was cruising totally in Italy with only Europeans who are used to being ordered around by their governments and thus follow rules pretty easy. That is not the American tradition or way at all. It will be interesting once they sail from US waters with a good cross section of Americans what their response will be. I wonder how draconian they will be. Refuse boarding to a US family, say in St. Lucia? Another Mutiny on the Bounty!


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

If the US family in St Lucia had broken the excursion  guidelines, I’d mutiny if they were allowed back on the ship 

[Doubt It]

Dwight1 - you have said the situation very well. Every country can be different and I do not see people understanding nor respecting this.

 

I now understand the European way ie Face Shields, not masks. Does not work for me, but then "Do What The Romans Do"!!!!

 

Indeed. Canadians are docile and do what they are told. Many Europeans too. Dear Americans, not so much and I respect that absolutely for sure. Who really knows the consequences of any configuration.  

 

The bottom line is cruising and airlines pack humans together - so they are the FIRST issue in travel.  Not patronizing either of them any time soon.

 

Be safe.

 

 

[Pinboy]

51 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Gee, that wasn't the case before your Canadiens were knocked out of the playoffs! 😎 

LOL-- Very true--but, let's give them some credit for winning 2 games while waiting for cruising to start up again. 

How are the Senators doing ------- on the golf course ?  

Suggestion--- How about we organize a " Cruise with the Ottawa Senators " for next May when they will be out of the playoffs--- again.

I suppose if we get all of their 5000 fans signed up, you and I will cruise for free . 

( see how I kept my reply to cruising ??? )

 

 

 

 

 

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Dwight1 said:

Some went with Bligh and some with Christian. It will be a study in American individualism that is our backbone and the imposition of European rules of society. Hmmmm, I guess that’s why so many left in the last several hundred years.


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And that is why the US is currently one of the worst when it comes to case counts.

 

The cruise line have escorted many off ships over the years for violating rules, usually for ignoring crew directions.

 

Why don't you sign up for one of the first cruises, ignore the rules related to COVID and report back if they let you get back on the ship.

 

Also keep in mind when you are on the ship, even one that leaves and returns to a US port,  you are no longer inside the US and US laws no longer apply.  It is then maritime law and the laws of the country in which the ship is registered.

[WonderMan3]

On 8/23/2020 at 6:18 PM, npcl said:

Largely because of this comment you made

 

Guess that explains why I literally just watched a news story talking about how Germany and Spain just had their highest spike of cases since the spring.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/20/coronavirus-germany-spain-record-highest-daily-cases-since-april.html

 

Which in context of the message you were responding to, implied that the use of shields in German establishments might be the cause of their up tick.

 

This is the message you responded to which was almost exclusively about the use of face shields

 

 

In the hospitality business in Germany and Italy (we just returned from a week in italy today) the face shields shown and even smaller ones worn above the chin, barely over mouth and nose, are accepted. You (or I) might not like it, but that’s how it is. 
So they are not breaking any rules or any promise.

 

 

So I pointed out that even with the uptick their numbers with use of shields (as with many of the other European countries) is substantially better than in our country.   I find it a bit interesting about people critiquing the standards that other countries choose to put in place, as if ours were the gold standard. Those that are complaining about MSC using shields on their waiters.

 

However, I certainly agree that as countries open up, especially when travel is involved, they will face additional challenges and issues in maintaining control

 

The comment was a reaction to face shields to show that it is not necessarily an effective stop to this virus as the rise in cases in European countries is showing since the comment I replied to was referencing Germany. Any scientific information I have seen also shows that face shields are not as effective as masks. (Although a report I saw today said that face shields combined with masks may be the most effective.)

 

I was not defending the U.S's reaction to the pandemic in any way, shape or form and did not mention the U.S. at all. You were seriously leaping to conclusions going down that route, I assume merely because I live in the U.S. Bizarre...

 

 

[npcl]

 

 

17 minutes ago, WonderMan3 said:

 

The comment was a reaction to face shields to show that it is not necessarily an effective stop to this virus as the rise in cases in European countries is showing since the comment I replied to was referencing Germany. Any scientific information I have seen also shows that face shields are not as effective as masks. (Although a report I saw today said that face shields combined with masks may be the most effective.)

 

I was not defending the U.S's reaction to the pandemic in any way, shape or form and did not mention the U.S. at all. You were seriously leaping to conclusions going down that route, I assume merely because I live in the U.S. Bizarre...

 

 

Nope just showing that their policies and procedures seem to be pretty effective.  Considering that they allow face shields, while our CDC discourages them.  which is most have referenced when criticizing the MSC's use of shields.

 

Considering how effective their policies have been and the article you posted only indicated the increase, without any reference to shields contributing.  An increase that was really pretty small and where it still demonstrated pretty good control of the outbreak. Thus the comparison of scope of there numbers (pretty well in control) to the US (pretty much out of control).

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

8 minutes ago, Dwight1 said:

I am scheduled on the Summit 1/31/21 but I doubt I’ll go. CDC will almost certainly cancel and why plunk down more $ in a lost cause and wait months for a refund? I’m sure the rules of the first cruises that go will be too restrictive and I will pass. To pay $5-7k to be so controlled is simply not my kind of vacation- restricted excursions, masks everywhere, social distancing all the time, no coming close and talking to other guests and no group dinners. Not my kind of cruising at this point. I’m not that desperate, there will be other options later on. I can more than take care of myself but why invite trouble to no end. I’ll leave cruising for now to those who want to go at all costs. Poor choice for the high $ but each to their own.


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Sounds like you do not believe your own hypothesis that the cruise lines would not be able to enforce their rules with US passengers, unlike the cruises with EU passengers.

[WonderMan3]

49 minutes ago, npcl said:

 

 

Nope just showing that their policies and procedures seem to be pretty effective.  Considering that they allow face shields, while our CDC discourages them.  which is most have referenced when criticizing the MSC's use of shields.

 

Considering how effective their policies have been and the article you posted only indicated the increase, without any reference to shields contributing.  An increase that was really pretty small and where it still demonstrated pretty good control of the outbreak. Thus the comparison of scope of there numbers (pretty well in control) to the US (pretty much out of control).

 

 

 

Again, you are bringing the U.S. into this as some sort of straw man argument. Not interested in arguing so please find someone else to engage with.

[npcl]

1 hour ago, WonderMan3 said:

 

Again, you are bringing the U.S. into this as some sort of straw man argument. Not interested in arguing so please find someone else to engage with.

Well you certainly seem to be participating.

 

 What proof do you have that the use of face shields had anything to do with the small rise in the numbers of COVID cases in some European countries.  Since that, by your own comments, was what your response was implying.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by npcl