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AstoriaPreppy

Epic vanishes from schedule in Nov 2021?

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We've had our eye on some Epic Mediterranean  cruises in November 2021, but they seem to have disappeared from the NCL (and all other cruise booking sites) the past few days. These were the standard Barcelona/Rome 7 day trips. Currently, the only November voyage I'm seeing is the Transatlantic from Rome-NY at the end of the month. 

 

Any thoughts/info on this? Drydock? Charter cruise? Heading to the scrapyards? 😉 

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18 minutes ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

We've had our eye on some Epic Mediterranean  cruises in November 2021, but they seem to have disappeared from the NCL (and all other cruise booking sites) the past few days. These were the standard Barcelona/Rome 7 day trips. Currently, the only November voyage I'm seeing is the Transatlantic from Rome-NY at the end of the month. 

 

Any thoughts/info on this? Drydock? Charter cruise? Heading to the scrapyards? 😉 

She is booked for dry doc November this year so it shouldn't be that. Maybe it will reappear in a day or so

 

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3 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

We've had our eye on some Epic Mediterranean  cruises in November 2021, but they seem to have disappeared from the NCL (and all other cruise booking sites) the past few days. These were the standard Barcelona/Rome 7 day trips. Currently, the only November voyage I'm seeing is the Transatlantic from Rome-NY at the end of the month. 

 

Any thoughts/info on this? Drydock? Charter cruise? Heading to the scrapyards? 😉 

 

Someone over on FB is reporting their October 2021 Epic has been cancelled due to "fleet redeployment."  Perhaps the November 2021 Epic cruises have been cancelled for the same reason.  I don't know for sure, but that would make sense to me....

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Posted (edited)

We got our cancellation email for "fleet redeployment" also today for the October 24th, 2021 cruise out of Barcelona.

 

That itinerary still shows available on the website though? 

Edited by Jed12345

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Posted (edited)

Maybe its the end of the line for this ship. At 11 years old it is an oddity in the fleet although apparently profitable. It has been trouble since day 0 for NCL and still is, and is mortgaged to to the top of the smoke stack. May be its been sold to reduce some debt especially as NCL are struggling to fund the new Leonardo ships.

Edited by bmwman

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3 hours ago, bmwman said:

Maybe its the end of the line for this ship. At 11 years old it is an oddity in the fleet although apparently profitable. It has been trouble since day 0 for NCL and still is, and is mortgaged to to the top of the smoke stack. May be its been sold to reduce some debt especially as NCL are struggling to fund the new Leonardo ships.

I sure hope not we have a b2b on the epic for March 2022

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3 hours ago, bmwman said:

Maybe its the end of the line for this ship. At 11 years old it is an oddity in the fleet although apparently profitable. It has been trouble since day 0 for NCL and still is, and is mortgaged to to the top of the smoke stack. May be its been sold to reduce some debt especially as NCL are struggling to fund the new Leonardo ships.

 

How has the Epic been "trouble since day 0 for NCL"?

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7 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

How has the Epic been "trouble since day 0 for NCL"?

I was wondering the same thing....yes some hate the ship but it is one of my favorites.  Especially the Haven, it is the best in all of the fleet.  I have also sailed non Haven on it and still loved it.  Most either love or hate the Epic very few in between.  

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1 hour ago, drvmywifecrzy said:

Could be getting repoed.  It was collateral for big loans

 

This will be bad news for the transatlantic passengers, because they're going to make horrible time with a boot on the back of the ship. 

 

Again, the Epic is only off the schedule for a few weeks, which is why I was asking. 

I've checked again, and right now the last bookable Mediterranean cruise return is the Barcelona round trip that disembarks on 31 October. It then disappears from the schedule before the transatlantic from Rome on 20 November, when it heads to NY and then down to PR for the winter season of southern Caribbean cruises. 

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10 hours ago, TSUmom said:

I was wondering the same thing....yes some hate the ship but it is one of my favorites.  Especially the Haven, it is the best in all of the fleet.  I have also sailed non Haven on it and still loved it.  Most either love or hate the Epic very few in between.  

The ship is a nightmare mechanically with pipework that is a disaster.

 

Look at its history with engine problems and broken propeller shaft.

 

I can assure you that if NCL would consider any offers it could  - The toilet bowl is probably going to have to be taken out as it is rusted through at the base. It is now in a very crowded market place and in Europe it is up against some much newer ships and the UK market is getting the new ships if we get cruising next year.

 

Because of the lifeboats it can only use a very limited number of ports and given it is very unlikely cruising will return to Europe for non Europeans  next year the Epic has no where to go. As you can Spain and France can not control the virus and frankly Mass cruise visitors will not be be accepted by countries desperate to appease a public fed up with lockdowns. 

 

OK of course  I could be wrong if the onboard revenue is good but ask yourself this ....why is bottom of fleet in its ratings consistently. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Now I get another email that says my cruise is not cancelled and still active???????

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jed12345 said:

Now I get another email that says my cruise is not cancelled and still active???????

Sorry this is so stressful for you, please, stop worrying for now.   The thing is, there's lots of time and lots to be done before your cruise/final payment for your cruise. 

I'm looking at my B2B, booked for April 2021 and wondering if it is a go or a no go.  It's already paid for... 26 days... 11 day + 15 day, to which I"m really looking forward.  Do I know if it will be a go... leg 1 + leg 2, heck no, however, I have months before I need to figure that out.  

Please relax and let destiny take her course... we're all in this together.   WE will survive! 

 

Good luck & cheers 🍹

Edited by All-ready2cruise

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13 hours ago, bmwman said:

The ship is a nightmare mechanically with pipework that is a disaster.

 

Look at its history with engine problems and broken propeller shaft.

 

I can assure you that if NCL would consider any offers it could  - The toilet bowl is probably going to have to be taken out as it is rusted through at the base. It is now in a very crowded market place and in Europe it is up against some much newer ships and the UK market is getting the new ships if we get cruising next year.

 

Because of the lifeboats it can only use a very limited number of ports and given it is very unlikely cruising will return to Europe for non Europeans  next year the Epic has no where to go. As you can Spain and France can not control the virus and frankly Mass cruise visitors will not be be accepted by countries desperate to appease a public fed up with lockdowns. 

 

OK of course  I could be wrong if the onboard revenue is good but ask yourself this ....why is bottom of fleet in its ratings consistently. 

 

 

 

 

 

Like I said some hate the Epic but I am one that really enjoyed my cruises on it.

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10 hours ago, All-ready2cruise said:

I'm looking at my B2B, booked for April 2021 and wondering if it is a go or a no go.  It's already paid for... 26 days... 11 day + 15 day, to which I"m really looking forward. 

 

Just curious, may I ask what the cruises are? I like the longer cruises, so B2Bs would definitely be an option for me (i.e. I think I would like to do a B2B on the POA).

 

Before this Covid 19 hit the fan, I was planning on cruising solo and I established a minimum of 12 days for any cruise that I would book. So, your 26 day (11 day + 15 day) B2B sounds good to me!

 

Good luck with that B2B cruise - I hope it goes. Just my guess only, but I was thinking cruising will resume by spring/summer 2021 (especially if we get a vaccine by late 2020 or early 2021).

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The cruises are on the Jade, from Tampa > NYC then NYC to Amsterdam.  Great ports all the way.  

Here's the link on NCL for both:  https://www.ncl.com/vacations?date=apr-2021&duration=9-14,15+&ship=norwegian-jade

 

I love longer cruises too and the spring does look good for cruises to begin.  We'll see what happens, all we can do is wait  and hope for the best.  

And thanks, I hope it's a go too. 

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14 hours ago, bmwman said:

The ship is a nightmare mechanically with pipework that is a disaster.

 

I've heard about the propulsion issues, but what's wrong with the plumbing? 

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10 hours ago, TSUmom said:

Like I said some hate the Epic but I am one that really enjoyed my cruises on it.

We have cruised over 15 times including the owners suite. Loved the ship and the crew but.....

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8 hours ago, AstoriaPreppy said:

 

I've heard about the propulsion issues, but what's wrong with the plumbing? 

Ok where do I start 

 

the floods in Manhattan

The water to the Haven 

The toilet system 

The water park 

 

And so it goes on .......... i

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I loved my cruise on it in 2011 after a disatours 2010 one on the Jewel.

The Epic was very creative- studio cabins, Howl at the Moon, Fat Cats Blues Club, Legends In concert, Blue Man Group, 2 bowling alleys. Best Nachos and cheese sauce ever. Spice H2o with the Hydraulic pool.

I thought later on they got more conservative and took some of these things away. I look at my 2011 Epic photo book daily

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The crew in the period 2011 to 2016 were exceptional and probably for a lot of us the dream team (most now with HAL). butthat does not take away from the fact that the ship is an oddity to the fleet!

 

 

 

 

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Leonardo - you assume it will be built!!! there is no appetite to borrow more money or for that matter to lend it either.

 

NCL Crew or team  ? 😉

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31 minutes ago, bmwman said:

Leonardo - you assume it will be built!!! there is no appetite to borrow more money or for that matter to lend it either.

 

NCL Crew or team  ? 😉

 

They have already started building the first one.  It's very early in construction but a start has been made.

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13 hours ago, sunny aurora said:

 

They have already started building the first one.  It's very early in construction but a start has been made.

And so have other ships that are now stopped. At present there is no money for more than one of them (read the SEC filings)abut debt being rescheduled). The fact is when you lose what is likely to be 1 years profits and have new secured lenders and investors who want a return of capital there is no way 6 ships are going to be built. They simply will not allow their cash to be used in that way.

 

The further reality is that cruise pricing will not hold up as can be seen already fro 2021 prices. So FDR business model is shot to  pieces. Sadly I forsee the NCL brand being sold off  as it may be the only way investors see a return of capital

 

I know this is a cruise lovers site but sometimes we all lose a sense of business reality.  I can assure that at present if this first one is built it will be at least 30 months before a second is built. The corporate finance world if you have never been in it, is at times not a nice place to be and dog eat dog is sadly the truth of this. NCLH has made the following statement to the SEC.

 

If you only read the first line it tells you everything DEBT is 5 times more than cash available to repay it (if it had to) what is supporting is the mortgage of assets. NCLH is not even in control of its own destiny!!!

 

You will see they are now trying to sells 2022 cruises and even 2023 and get YOUR deposits why because management of all lines know the truth that 202 1will be a tough year too and most cruises will be FCC. 

 

Even credit card companies are now holding cash back I have seen from cruise lines (hearsay so I do not the truth of this) but please cruisers accept that the product on offer into the future is not going to be as we know and love it and this may be the start of the decline and the growth of resort hotels again. I know where i am investing!!!

 

"Balance Sheet and Liquidity Position
As of June 30, 2020, the Company’s total debt position was $10.3 billion and the Company’s cash and cash equivalents were $2.3
billion. The Company believes it was in compliance with all debt covenants.
In July 2020, the Company closed on a series of capital markets transactions to further bolster liquidity and extend its debt
maturity profile. As a result of significant demand, oversubscription and the full exercise of the option to purchase additional
ordinary shares and partial exercise of the option to purchase exchangeable senior notes, the total amount of gross proceeds were
approximately $1.5 billion. The triple-tranche transaction consisted of (i) approximately $288 million public offering of common
equity, (ii) $450 million 5.375% exchangeable senior notes and (iii) $750 million 10.25% senior secured notes, the proceeds of
which were used in part to repay the existing $675 million short-term revolving credit facility.
Following the recent capital markets transactions, the repayment of the $675 million short-term revolving credit facility and
customer deposit refunds payable1
, total pro-forma liquidity is approximately $2.8 billion as of June 30, 2020. Total shares issued
and outstanding as of July 21, 2020 are 275.6 million.
“We continue to adapt to this unprecedented and fluid environment and take swift and proactive measures to reduce costs,
conserve cash and enhance our liquidity profile,” said Mark A. Kempa, executive vice president and chief financial officer of
Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Ltd. “Our recent capital raises have enabled us to extend our debt maturity profile and secure
additional liquidity providing us with a strong foundation to withstand the impact of COVID-19.
”"

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