Windstar Vs Seabourn

[robertmartha]

Looking into options for next summer - and Windstar came across my radar.

Understand that 3 former Seabourn ships are part of their fleet and are undergoing multi-million dollar renovations and lengthening.

 

Would love to hear thoughts / comparisons for those who have sailed both - 

 

Love the Seabourn vibe ... and from what I have read so far - seems that Windstar is similar?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Bob

[alidor]

Have been on both and I think Windstar is a step down from Seabourn.  Lots of reasons why, I guess, but enough that I would prefer Seabourn over Windstar.   Years ago, Windstar was very special but over the years they have gone downhill.

[robertmartha]

Thank you Alidor

 

When my DW saw me looking at Windstar deck plans earlier - she made a face and said what about Seabourn !😂

They totally won us over on our first sailing w/them this past January......

[jjs217]

I have sailed on one of the former "little sisters" that were sold to Windstar - thought I would give it a try.  Seabourn is a much better product.  I would not sail on Windstar again - I'll stick with Seabourn - personal choice.

[robertmartha]

Thank you jjs217!

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Have also sailed on the WS triplets and on SB.  Would only sail WS again if they sailed an itinerary of major interest, that the lux lines don’t.  The triplets are “adequate”.  Would sail WS before sailing any of the mass market lines.

 

Hate to sound snobby, but it was the behavior of the clientele on board that turned us off of WS more than anything else.  This coming from dodgy ol’ Ragnar should say a lot....

 

(PS - WS did have excellent bacon at the breakfast buffet!  Also, the “free” wines available via the booze package were generally better than the included wines on the lux lines.  Never bought a bottle on WS but have on all the lux lines.)

 

(PPS -  A little anecdote from WS cruise.  During our galley tour, the head chef mentioned he was from India.  I commented that we love Indian food.  He said to tell our waiter any night that we had spoken to him and he would prepare us an Indian dinner.  We did one night and he prepared a sumptuous Indian feast for us.  All the diners around us were jealous!)

Edited September 13, 2020 by Ragnar Danneskjold

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

(PPPS - Maybe WS ain’t so bad after all 🙂 )

[brittany12]

All of this talk about comparing stale products with one another and anting to get advice on the future. It all depends what the ships are like when they return to service post CV. What will their staffs be like? New people, old, trained or untrained? A mixture? From where? Their shipboard management?  their food? Quality and quantity? Their service? Their amenities? These cruise lines are burning cash. Desperate to stay afloat. Who survives and who does and which ships are scuttled is still to be told. Many things will change. Subtle and unsubtle. You cannot compare a fond memory of a year ago when the ships were at their prime with what will probably greet us when we return.

[robertmartha]

brittany12

 

Comparing stale products? If you consider Seabourn a stale product - what is your cruise line of choice?

 

I consider myself a glass half full person and am optimistic that Carnival Corp (which Seabourn is a part of) will come out of this.....yes they are eliminating ships from their fleets and unfortunately some staff...but if their staff and crew are like most of us that are fortunate to still have a job during this crisis - I think most will be giving 150% + and will be so happy to be back at work that I don't think you will see any decline in the quality of staffing. Unless I am working in a bubble - the organization I work for has not skipped a beat and employees are going above and beyond to ensure our organization makes it thru this crisis. And I see it all around me in all the small private companies and mom and pop shops in our community.

 

Will some things be different pre cruise and during - most likely...but if they are enhanced health protocols, I see that as a positive.

 

Will I cruise if I have to wear a mask and only be allowed on ship sponsored shore excursions - probably not...but I am willing to wait until the environment on board and off shore is one that I will be comfortable with and will. meet my expectations

 

If people rush back and then complain about the onboard experience and how it has changed and how it was not like it was before - then I chalk that up to people not being informed and doing their research. I always find it amusing when people cruise and then complain about almost aspect of their experience -  if they had just done their research and were better informed of what the cruise experience is and is not - they either would have chosen a different line or a land vacation instead.

 

Bob in NY

 

[markham]

Here is another viewpoint on cruising during the next few months as people decide what they want...

 

For me, there is no way that Windstar competes for my time or money next year or any other year. Those old ships, their facilities, and their service standards simply do not compare with Seabourn’ standards. Of course, I only speak for myself; I have no reason at all to look at Windstar.

 

But as I have mentioned in another thread, I am excited about my July, 2021 cruise on Ovation for 2 weeks. This replaces a Sojourn cruise in that region that was cancelled last summer, the eastern Mediterranean, whose cultures and ports offer so much pleasure. I can say that that anticipation is now factored into my kinda crazy sense of commitment- as in we are going, without doubt. By then I expect/hope to be inoculated for this virus (as I am sure most travelers would be) and also hope that this first vaccine iteration offers at least a >50% chance of immunity. Likely Seabourn will procure inoculations for all of their staff by then too.

 

If we have to wear mask, if some activities are reduced/curtailed, if there is some social distancing in place as policy with a reduced, practical reduction in passenger numbers, that is now fine with me. We will all be in this together, we will all share in the uniqueness of the times, and best of all we will be back! Just great, no matter what restrictions and differences we find versus 2019’s standards.
 

2020 will go down as something of a washout. But so what. Plenty to anticipate! I hope that Seabourn’s advance bookings are healthy and robust as this will help them come to terms with their challenges and deliver what they can. 
 

Happy and healthy cruising! Let’s go!
 

 

 

 

[robertmartha]

Thanks markham

After I posted this original question - I did some research on my own and came to the same conclusion you stated....sticking w/Seabourn!

 

Great outlook on your sailing next summer - my feelings exactly.... so much so that I hope to be on Sailing later on in 2021!!

[brittany12]

Time for reality check folks. Yes Seabourn is stale, and so is every cruise line. Six months in the bread box ( for those of you who remember bread boxes before bread had preservatives). Hard, crusty and moldy. Nothing against Searbourn - and my fondest wish is that it returns just as good as when we left it six months ago. Miles better than Windstar. For me it was the best. But the inconvenient truth is that we can dream of our fond memories of past glorious cruises and imagine this is what it will be like again  but how Seabourn and all other lines return when that day comes is a total unknown. Luxury status is not a snap of the fingers - it is attained over time as the line's reputation grows. Seabourn had a fine reputation. Will it again?  Seabourn will have to regroup un all ways imaginable and unimaginable too. If you offer the best, you can charge high prices. That they are still doing. Yes cabins very fine and ships small and very nice. But it's the product - with or without masks - that they will be serving up one Day One that matters. We just don't know what and how good that product will be. So many variables as I mentioned in my message few days ago. Every cruise line facing the same question. The luxury lines will want to convince its audiences it will come back with a very comparable product that it had when the curtain came down.. We just do not know. The cost cutting will be felt in what we recieve. Arriverderci caviar. Does anyone believe Carnival will still permit that indulgence? What will the crew be like? Top quality again? Trained or semi or untrained? Seabourn-quality crews? The food? The service? The entertainment? The ports? The excursions? Will countries allow entry? These furloughed employees are just not sitting around in their home countries awaiting the call. Many have found jobs elsewhere to keep their family alive. Pay stopped a long time ago. They are getting no US government or any other country subsidies. Their debt is enormous. The ships have skeletal crews on board to keep the engines and vital systems going. Very small  in comparison to full crew size and probably just the engineering folk. Yes. Stale product. Could be a year or longer  before they go back to cruising. We have to know when the mold is scraped off what the loaf of bread will smell like, look like and taste. No cruise line is talking about this and hoping the passengers just believe it will the same product as when this calamity began. 

[markham]

brittany12,

 

Oh dear! It’s time to lighten up about all those concerns. How about watching something fun like Schitt$s Creek, the Emmy Award winner, on Netflix like I am. It’s about some full of it family getting turfed out of their big white house due to bad investments and maybe tax scams and then making their way in a new era for them. All too familiar, huh? A real hoot, and you get to know who they are and what they are. Maybe they would not be on Seabourn as I imagine they are more Regent people. Anyway, I am only on episode 5, series 1, but I get the sense they are already learning about themselves. Always a good thing to do.
 

And so it may come to pass for those of us who take the bold step of returning to our favorite line, Seabourn. I will report this July about Ovation, our friends aboard, the caviar which I expect will be available from those wonderful F&B Managers, wait staff and bar staff, with lots of Montaudon. Nice and fresh, certainly not stale, and with all that pent-up enthusiasm from these current crazy times.

 

Don’t worry, be happy! My bet is Seabourn Management will execute a hearty welcome and thereby relaunch their winning product, better than some other folks in the biz.

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

Edited September 28, 2020 by markham

[robertmartha]

Markham 😊

Wish I was joining you on board in July!

- if time allows - please post -  would love to hear and read your positive perspective while on board!

Also agree - I believe that Seabourn will be back - better then ever.

[brittany12]

The ignorance displayed on this thread is just appalling.

[markham]

Ok. I tried. Be appalled then.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[Cantara24]

Brittany12 … what is truly appalling is you calling people that do not agree with you ignorant.

[brittany12]

The definition of the word ignorance "is lack of knowledge or information." No one knows what life will be like onboard when cruising resumes. Anyone who disagrees with that statement has their head buried in the sand. Believing or wanting something to be true  - "ignoring" all the clear uncertainty - when one does not have the foggiest idea of what the real situation will be when the ships sail again fulfills that definition.  Would delusional suit you better? Living in the cherished past and believing against all reality and  facts pertaining to this pandemic world wide that life at sea on our beloved Seabourn ships or any other cruise ship will just pick up at the same high level where it was in March of 2020 is wishful thinking at best and just plain ignorance at worst. There are just too many unknown factors at stake - like probable cost reductions,  increased fares, service changes and reductions, crew composition upon resumption and level of training,  ports accepting us, countries allowing entry, excursions, quality of food and wines, kitchen excellence. Seabourn and parent Carnival have no income except future cruise deposits and still large expenses with reduced land staffs and maintaining ships with skeletal crews and even building new ones. They are hemorrhaging debt despite the new line of credit. Unlike American Airlines, they get no government subsidies. They have furloughed thousands of employees and will have to re- crew all over again in competition in the new job market for cruise jobs with all other cruise lines when that day occurs. These are serious concerns to Seabourn and to any knowledgable traveler.  What about people spreading the disease onboard and precautions the cruise will take  - passengers or crew getting sick while we are sailing? People who refuse to take the vaccine, should there be one. You've thought that all through? You are so certain all will be perfect again?  My point is that no one knows what that scene will be like. That is undeniable. The "all will be well and perfect as it once was" believers  and the "what me worry?" crowd  have blinders on.  Sure we would alike it to be the way it once was. 

[rkacruiser]

5 hours ago, brittany12 said:

You are so certain all will be perfect again?  My point is that no one knows what that scene will be like. That is undeniable. 

 

"Perfection" is in the experience of the one who experiences such in their opinion. 

 

So correct is your statement that "no one knows what that scene will be like".  

 

When cruising resumes, I believe that one can count on it being different from what it has been.  At least, for some time--maybe quite some time. 

 

Is it possible--indeed probable--that all cruise lines at all price levels will need to "dial back" their previous cruise experiences that guests were provided in order to resume cruising at the start of the "new normal"?  

 

If so, I see the cruising industry needing to take several steps backwards in order to start going forward again.  The "Seabourns" et al of today did not exist when the cruising industry began.  I see an industry that almost has to start anew.

 

Will that be acceptable to those who have been past cruise guests?  Will new cruise guests still be attracted to a cruise experience?  

 

The "trial" has not yet started for North America.  The jury has yet to be seated.  None of us know what the outcome will be.  

 

But, in my mind, it's OK to be optimistic during a time where it has become so easy to become depressed.  

[robertmartha]

Thank you rka - always enjoy your posts and perspective.

I for one am looking forward optimistically for whatever the future holds.

 

Stay well everyone - we have a lot of cruising to catch up on when the time is right for each of us !

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, robertmartha said:

Thank you rka - always enjoy your posts and perspective.

 

I appreciate your kind words.  Thank you!

 

22 hours ago, robertmartha said:

I for one am looking forward optimistically for whatever the future holds.

 

I have lived my life as a "glass is half full" person when difficulties arise.  I don't know how I could have survived if I hadn't at times.  Like you, I believe that there will be a "Better Tomorrow".  

[lbkjj]

On 9/9/2020 at 11:29 AM, jjs217 said:

I have sailed on one of the former "little sisters" that were sold to Windstar - thought I would give it a try.  Seabourn is a much better product.  I would not sail on Windstar again - I'll stick with Seabourn - personal choice.

Same here, I found Windstar OK but the ship wasn't well maintained and I would need a substantial price difference to switch from Seabourn.

Edited October 12, 2020 by lbkjj

[robertmartha]

thanks all - may need to take a look at Ponant - reading and hearing a lot of good things about them lately.....

Not as luxury as our Seabourn...but may be an option....?