Finally a CEO stands up to the coronabro cdc!

[oteixeira]

16 minutes ago, RD64 said:

But how many of those of you that NEED to cruise will be willing to cruise given the current restrictions on cruising that MSC and Costa passengers are now subject to? Cruising as it was pre March 13th will not return for a long, long time. Just follow the threads regarding buffets, and mandatory shore excursions to leave the ship... North Americans are not exactly willing to put up with these and the many other restrictions.

Can't wait to cruise, even with all of the "restrictions".  Shoot, I never went to the buffet because I thought it was the dirtiest place on the ship, maybe now I will.

[oteixeira]

16 minutes ago, RD64 said:

One other thing - FDR doesn’t want the veteran - I have been on so many cruises I can’t even count type of passenger. He wants the newbies - those who will spend spend spend on shore excursions, pictures, specialty dining etc. All of the FCCs and OBC will fo absolutely nothing to help his bottom line. He doesn’t want the people that NEED to cruise - he wants those that WANT to cruise because it is a novelty to them and they are willing to spend $$$$$$.

What if I were to tell you that they can both be the same person??  I love to cruise, and need to cruise.  I also spend money on all types of things on board, because I am enjoying my vacation.  I spend plenty as well as being a loyal cruiser.  I would argue that a lot of the "newbs" are the ones that scrape and save their way through a cruise because they didn't expect all the extra costs.

Edited September 12, 2020 by oteixeira

[BirdTravels]

9 hours ago, Tapi said:

Leisure travelers have become more and more frequent as time progresses,  specially over the last holiday weekend when almost 1 million daily passengers passed through TSA checkpoints nationwide. The vast majority of people do comply with the rules and regulations that airports and airlines have in place. I do believe that if we can get the same level of compliance once cruising resumes, it will be successful. But people need to do their part. 

I fly frequently, and some of my flights are completely full with stand-by lists (like pre-COVID). Two weeks ago, I flew on 2 oversold Airbus 321s with about 180 non-socially-distant people onboard. The majority were leisure travelers. Everyone sat on the 3 1/2 hour flight with their masks on watching videos, sleeping, and reading. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by BirdTravels

[Shipof6Fools]

I think it is a moot point to compare whether cruising is a need or a want. I look at it this way. Cruising in Europe has restarted and restarted safely. The restrictions I have read about seem as safe as you can get unless you left the passengers off. Cruising is a large part of the Florida economy, not to mention the economy of the ports they visit. I think it unfair to keep to keep a business closed to the point of bankruptcy when they have done everything in there power to make cruising safe (and even proved it safe). Lastly, I agree with the post above. Let us make the choice whether to cruise or not. To us under 60 the death rate is well under 1%.

[hamrag]

9 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

.....Thankfully, we each get to decide how we live our life and what we choose to do.  At least for now.

 

 

Yep, and in one sentence you have summarised why COVID-19 has spiked dramatically in the USofA and the UK....to mention only two of many countries and nations experiencing likewise!

[hamrag]

8 hours ago, lbt43 said:

Yep, its pointless to argue with a coronabro.  Its a religion now.

Until reading the term here I'd never heard the term 'coronabro'.......covidiot, yes heard that term often! 😉

[Formula280SS]

4 hours ago, hamrag said:

 

Yep, and in one sentence you have summarised why COVID-19 has spiked dramatically in the USofA and the UK....to mention only two of many countries and nations experiencing likewise!

 

Well facts are important.

 

 

[coaster]

Dock a ship in South Florida. Get the CEOs that are so against the CDC and hold a news conference onboard to prove it is ok to get on a ship again. Enclosed area also. No open deck stuff.

 

Doubt any of them would do it. Easy to spout their agenda on a video conference call from the safe surroundings of their homes.

Edited September 12, 2020 by coaster
added details

[macandlucy]

1 hour ago, coaster said:

Dock a ship in South Florida. Get the CEOs that are so against the CDC and hold a news conference onboard to prove it is ok to get on a ship again. Enclosed area also. No open deck stuff.

 

Doubt any of them would do it. Easy to spout their agenda on a video conference call from the safe surroundings of their homes.

Are you suggesting that there is something more dangerous about the indoor space on a cruise ship compared to the indoor space of any other space where strangers encounter one another?

 

[coaster]

19 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

Are you suggesting that there is something more dangerous about the indoor space on a cruise ship compared to the indoor space of any other space where strangers encounter one another?

 

Good point. I can't shake the stigma of cruise ships being associated with the virus it seems. It would still help put a positive perspective of things were it to happen.

[macandlucy]

6 minutes ago, coaster said:

Good point. I can't shake the stigma of cruise ships being associated with the virus it seems. It would still help put a positive perspective of things were it to happen.

Frankly, Coaster, I'm blown away to see someone concede a point on the internet! Thank you for keeping an open mind. You're setting a great example  :)

 

I think the whole "Cruise ships are floating petri dishes!" thing is still in a lot of people's minds. It's understandable. When the Diamond Princess became a news story we didn't know much about the virus and everyone panicked. I think we know a lot more now though, and we do have a small arsenal of mitigation and containment strategies at our disposal, so that's why I now feel differently. But earlier this year, I cancelled a cruise because of my fears of Covid, so I do know what it's like to feel that fear. I just don't feel it in the same way now, knowing what we know, and I would be willing to cruise now with mitigation strategies in place, both my own (effective masks, impeccable hand hygiene, and distancing) and the cruise line's, (ideally pre-board testing, temperature checks, reduced capacity to allow for distancing and improved air circulation and ventilation measures),

 

And, I also think all of the cruise line CEOs would happily do a socially distanced press conference, on any of their ships. Inside. 

 

 

 

[coaster]

35 minutes ago, macandlucy said:

Frankly, Coaster, I'm blown away to see someone concede a point on the internet! Thank you for keeping an open mind. You're setting a great example  🙂

 

 

Thank you for the compliment. I like reading  opinions expressed here even though I may disagree with them. Everyone is different and it is a waste of time for me to rudely force my opinion on others.

 

My tolerance has changed over the months also. I was against going to amusement parks at first. I watched YouTube videos showing Disney World crowd sizes, the modifications done to many of the queue lines and the spacing distance between guests on rides. It helped give me the confidence to go there for 2 days and spend 1 night onsite the first part of August. Hand sanitizer at the exit and entrance to every ride helped me feel better once I was in the park. I know many would disagree that I should of gone to Disney.

 

I am still not ready to for a cruise yet. I cancelled my mid November cruise on Celebrity. I just need the ships to sail a few months before I get on one. Tolerance level is unique to each of us during these times.  

Edited September 12, 2020 by coaster

[BarnCat1]

I do feel that being in a plane is safer than a cruise ship since  you're more contained and monitored better (you have nowhere to go but your seat or the loo) and the timeframe is shorter. 

 

A lot of the fun of cruising is socializing, meeting new people on a daily basis all over the ship and making new friends, some for life.   The big concern is not being able to get back home or off the ship and being quarantined in your cabin for some length of time.  

 

I don't want to isolate on a cruise.  I want to have fun, mingle, be maskless, laugh out loud,  smile and see others smile. 

[onetimearoundtheworld]

I'm pretty sure the del rio and all the other cruise line CEOs have no interest in a restart. Contrary to most of the fanboys here they know the numbers of the "restart" in europe. MSC postponed the start of the second ship for a second time now. They can't even fill the only one going with iirc correctly four embarkation ports with more than 30% even though they are throwing the cruises away optionally with alcoholic drinks and excursions.

 

They are perfectly happy with the cdc and other authorities stopping them. Best way for them to put the blame for crushing the company and burning the investors money under their responsibility to someone else.

 

And btw yeah trusting the cruise line as the safety and well being of guests is their first priority right

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/coronavirus-norwegian-cruise-line-leaked-emails-show-booking-strategy-11590056

[lbt43]

They have no interest in a restart?  Yeah, they love burning cash and being on the brink of bankruptcy.  Good call.

[gizfish]

On 9/11/2020 at 10:23 AM, GA Dave said:

If the CDC was truly all about protecting the public, then they would not have allowed tens of thousands of people to sit in a stadium in KC last night to watch a game.

The CDC does not have that control.  That is the states government that allowed that to happen.  The CDC issues guidelines, not eddicts.

[gizfish]

On 9/11/2020 at 10:28 AM, macandlucy said:

Air travel is very risky, especially long flights on a full plane -- proximity plus duration. I don't see that being an issue on cruise ships, as there is a lot more space and no insistence on anyone staying put in any one area, unlike on planes. And because cruise lines are being singled out as "very risky", their efforts to prevent and contain will be stringent; they have to be as the survival of their industry pretty much depends on it. 

 

You are missing the fact that filtration of air on a plane is much different than on a cruise.  The planes filtration system is better at removing the smaller particles.  In some ways, air travel may be safer than cruising.  On a cruise ship, you are sharing your cabin A/C with your neighbors, their neighbors and so on and so on...Remember, this illness is airborne, so enclosed spaces with poor filtration and lots of people means infection.

 

[chipmaster]

On 9/10/2020 at 10:01 PM, lbt43 said:

I was wondering if or when a cruise line CEO would finally say its time to cruise.  Del Rio finally makes a strong statement against the ban.  We need to cruise, NOW.  The cdc is WRONG.

 

Is this like Pac12/Big10 versus ACC/SEC, make a stand ... for business or life/leisure, interesting debate

[onetimearoundtheworld]

54 minutes ago, lbt43 said:

They have no interest in a restart?  Yeah, they love burning cash and being on the brink of bankruptcy.  Good call.

 

Which of that would change under any realistic variation of an US cruising restart in 2020?

[chipmaster]

2 hours ago, BarnCat1 said:

I do feel that being in a plane is safer than a cruise ship since  you're more contained and monitored better (you have nowhere to go but your seat or the loo) and the timeframe is shorter. 

 

A lot of the fun of cruising is socializing, meeting new people on a daily basis all over the ship and making new friends, some for life.   The big concern is not being able to get back home or off the ship and being quarantined in your cabin for some length of time.  

 

I don't want to isolate on a cruise.  I want to have fun, mingle, be maskless, laugh out loud,  smile and see others smile. 

 

I have flow a few times, actually as perverted as it sounds I feel safer on a plane, everyone wearing mask, filtered air, etc. etc.

 

On a cruise given the treads and who goes on cruise, I suspect it will be far more dangerous given the consumer focused protocal and some of the people I see on cruises. 

 

As to mask or not, I can have a good time with mask, already do, the problem too many people won't even do this little sacrifice for their larger societal safety, so we don't have cruising and we enter fall a mess.

 

While China and most of the world is opening up, US is a mess, maybe as Dr Fauci said in late 2021 US gets the act togather, but the his words on selfishness is spot on, and because of that we can't do fun stuff like going out, and cruising 😞

[macandlucy]

45 minutes ago, gizfish said:

 

I'm not missing that. Air filtration is important and according to Del Rio and the NCL partnership with RCCL, they are improving that as part of their Covid strategy.  That is very important to me and I would now not go on a cruise ship that hasn't improved its air filtration. Adequate air filtration is one layer of protection that we could all use.

 

But the main driver of covid-19 is not the air, it's not surfaces, it's close exposure to the infected droplets of another person and the risk increases over time of exposure.  (Air filtration does little to stop the cough or sneeze coming in my direction from the person seated next to me. It would probably help the people a few rows away, but not me.) 

 

That proximity plus duration exposure is unavoidable on a plane, that's why there's a mask rule. This is a known risk, yet flights are still going. If the associated risk from flying is okay, then it should also be for cruising.  If air travel plus a hotel stay, plus a shuttle bus, plus an amusement park visit is safe enough, then so is a cruise, imo.  How are these risks substantively different? When aggregated, that's basically the cruise ship experience. 

 

You still need good air filtration, good, effective masks, the ability to distance, impeccable hand hygiene (don't touch your eyes, nose or mouth or food with unwashed hands) in all situations -- planes, trains, subways, buses, hotels, amusement parks and...yes, cruises.

 

 

[lbt43]

Only 15 days to slow the spread guys!!  Trust us! 

[CruiseMH]

TUI cruises and MSC in Europe are operating since some weeks and there is no covid-19 case known so far on any of their cruises. So this clearly indicates that it is possible to safely cruise. Maybe not with all the planned port stops but that should not be a reason to stop cruising in general.

cruise lines could go from Miami to their private islands and do one or two more sea days and then back to Miami.

Mandatory Covid-test for all guests before boarding and only excoursions offered and controlled by the cruise lines....thats currently the best solution.

 

[Trimone]

Ships can’t even control noro virus happening? Let’s have some common sense.

[Formula280SS]

43 minutes ago, Trimone said:

Ships can’t even control noro virus happening? Let’s have some common sense.

 

These aren't norovirus cases from ships; clearly appear to be coronavirus in the US by state (also not on ships).

 

It also is cumulative, with no regard to March to September; March being when the world 'didn't know what hit it or how to treat it to September when the world 'learning curve has improved treatment.

 

It clearly also appears countries and, in the US, state governments "can't even handle" such. 

 

Note the states with the highest 'deaths per million of population.

 

What would be interesting?

 

How many in each of the above:

 

1.  Nursing homes.

2.  Health care workers.

3.  Those with underlying conditions of heart disease, lung disease, diabetes and obesity.

4.  Age 65 and over.

 

AFTER SUCH LARGE % OF THE #'S, THERE IS A GIGANTIC MATHEMATICAL GAP

 

5.  Everyone else (stratified for asymptomatic), never hospitalized.

6.  Disclosure of the virus potency levels.

 

Yes, it is common sense.  Protect 1-4, protocol 5 at applicable risk level.