Cruises that do not go to ports.

[MISTER 67]

15 hours ago, Ourusualbeach said:

Port taxes and fees also include charges from the embarkation port.

No problem with that.

[Germancruiser]

16 hours ago, little britain said:

There are cruises currently operating out of Germany that have no port stops. 

Indeed there are- I sailed on a four nighter in late July- it was the first big ship ( 3000 pax) that went after the lock down. Out of Hamburg into Hamburg- with a nice cruise through the Norwegian Fjords - just wonderful. I liked it so much- well I am a big fan of Transatlantic´s - that I am booked on another cruise to nowhere in two weeks- out of Kiel. This time it is a 7 night voyage up to Sweden and back- with a technical stopp in Stockholm. First I have to pass the Covid19 test- which will happen shortly. No test- no boarding. I am staying positiv that I am negativ.

Edited September 18, 2020 by Germancruiser

[Sunshine3601]

17 minutes ago, Germancruiser said:

Indeed there are- I sailed on a four nighter in late July- it was the first big ship ( 3000 pax) that went after the lock down. Out of Hamburg into Hamburg- with a nice cruise through the Norwegian Fjords - just wonderful. I liked it so much- well I am a big fan of Transatlantic´s - that I am booked on another cruise to nowhere in two weeks- out of Kiel. This time it is a 7 night voyage up to Sweden and back- with a technical stopp in Stockholm. First I have to pass the Covid19 test- which will happen shortly. No test- no boarding. I am staying positiv that I am negativ.

That's great.  You are very fortunate that Europe does not have the same rules/regulations that the US has.  We are not allowed to have cruises to nowhere or ones with technical stops.  

I hope you have a wonderful cruise.

[Germancruiser]

Thank you sunshine. There a rules- of course- which have to be obeied- but it´s either to accept or to stay home. The ships also sail only at a max. of 60% capacity. Which, of course, means a lot of space- no crowds - and lot´s of time to enjoy the ship. I have to admit though, that I miss the more international flair when cruising on board X- or RCI- or Cunard ships.

[chengkp75]

18 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

That's great.  You are very fortunate that Europe does not have the same rules/regulations that the US has.  We are not allowed to have cruises to nowhere or ones with technical stops.  

I hope you have a wonderful cruise.

They actually do have the same rules/regulations as the US, it is just that the Aida and TUI ships are flagged in an EU member nation (Italy), so they meet the EU's equivalent of the PVSA.  You could not do these cruises in Europe with a Panamanian or Bahamian flag ship.

[Biker19]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

it is just that the Aida and TUI ships are flagged in an EU member nation (Italy)

I thought Mein Schiff ships are flagged in Malta?

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Biker19 said:

I thought Mein Schiff ships are flagged in Malta?

Yeah, but Malta is an EU member as well.

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, but Malta is an EU member as well.

So, I guess that technically, Celebrity could operate out of some EU ports?

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, d9704011 said:

So, I guess that technically, Celebrity could operate out of some EU ports?

Yes, the EU restricts "domestic" or "coastwise" trade (as restricted in the US to US flag ships by the Jones Act and PVSA) to ships flying flags of EU member states.  So, a Maltese flag ship could carry passengers between Le Havre and Marseilles, while a non-EU flag ship could not, or could do a cruise to nowhere from a German port.  There are some more restrictions, basically dealing with trade between a mainland country and its islands, but this the general outcome.

[twangster]

46 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, the EU restricts "domestic" or "coastwise" trade (as restricted in the US to US flag ships by the Jones Act and PVSA) to ships flying flags of EU member states.  So, a Maltese flag ship could carry passengers between Le Havre and Marseilles, while a non-EU flag ship could not, or could do a cruise to nowhere from a German port.  There are some more restrictions, basically dealing with trade between a mainland country and its islands, but this the general outcome.

 

From an immigration perspective as it relates to crew visas are there any differences between the EU and the US?

 

How would a repositioning cruise between Spain and Denmark or the Netherlands work for a non-EU flagged ship?

[chengkp75]

8 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

From an immigration perspective as it relates to crew visas are there any differences between the EU and the US?

 

How would a repositioning cruise between Spain and Denmark or the Netherlands work for a non-EU flagged ship?

I frankly don't know the work visa requirements for the EU, but the EU treats each member nation sort of like a state in the US, and a lot of the EU nations use a lot of "guest labor", so work visas may be more readily available, or they treat ship's crew from other EU nation's ships differently than guest labor.

 

Once a second nation is on the itinerary, whether it is an EU member or not, the cabotage issue goes away, so repo cruises are not an issue.  This is why I say the EU members are "sort of" like states in the US, because they each allow ships from the other members to participate in coastwise trade, within a single member nation, but as soon as you have a non-EU ship that goes to more than one nation, whether those are EU members or not, then each member nation is like a separate nation, and the cabotage does not apply.

Edited September 18, 2020 by chengkp75

[Ashland]

Have you heard Quantas now offers flights to no where...they take off/land back at the same airport...Prices between approx 700-2k...Basically a flyover scenic tour...and their actually selling out 

[Germancruiser]

2 hours ago, Ashland said:

Have you heard Quantas now offers flights to no where...they take off/land back at the same airport...Prices between approx 700-2k...Basically a flyover scenic tour...and their actually selling out 

LOL- you almost got me! Great humor!

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, Germancruiser said:

LOL- you almost got me! Great humor!

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-18/qantas-flight-to-nowhere-sells-out-in-10-minutes/12676570

[livingonthebeach]

3 minutes ago, Germancruiser said:

LOL- you almost got me! Great humor!

 

They actually exist!

 

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/flights-to-nowhere-qantas/index.html

[twangster]

How about this as a concept cruise to almost somewhere... "Party on the Pier!".

 

Sail off to some willing foreign port with a pier for a 4 or 5 night cruise where the ship docks.  Passenger visit the pier where they have tables and chairs set apart appropriately with food and beverage service from the ship (included in dining and beverage packages if you bought one). 

 

Locals on boats slowly floating by play live music paid for as part of the cruise fare.   After 3 or 4 hours passengers reboard and depart for fun filled days at sea.  Guests never leave the pier so the island and guests are safe from cross contamination.  

 

You are processed by local immigration officials normally so the ship has an official country visited therefore overcoming the cruise to nowhere label.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by twangster

[time4u2go]

13 minutes ago, twangster said:

How about this as a concept cruise to almost somewhere... "Party on the Pier!".

 

Sail off to some willing foreign port with a pier for a 4 or 5 night cruise where the ship docks.  Passenger visit the pier where they have tables and chairs set apart appropriately with food and beverage service from the ship (included in dining and beverage packages if you bought one). 

 

Locals on boats slowly floating by play live music paid for as part of the cruise fare.   After 3 or 4 hours passengers reboard and depart for fun filled days at sea.  Guests never leave the pier so the island and guests are safe from cross contamination.  

 

You are processed by local immigration officials normally so the ship has an official country visited therefore overcoming the cruise to nowhere label.

 

See post #40.

[twangster]

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

See post #40.

 

Don't be a Pier Party Pooper! 

 

So far these calls into Victoria haven't been deemed violations so no reason to think they will be when guests are actually debarking the ship and enjoying local cultural events.  

[time4u2go]

Just now, twangster said:

 

Don't be a Pier Party Pooper! 

 

So far these calls into Victoria haven't been deemed violations so no reason to think they will be when guests are actually debarking the ship and enjoying local cultural events.  

What calls into Victoria?

[twangster]

1 minute ago, time4u2go said:

What calls into Victoria?

 

The ones that are the subject of post #40.

[time4u2go]

6 minutes ago, twangster said:

 

The ones that are the subject of post #40.

I'm not sure that sitting at "tables and chairs set apart appropriately with food and beverage service from the ship" and listening to "Locals on boats slowly floating by play[ing] live music" would be enough to meet CBP's requirements for a foreign port call, but perhaps it would.

Edited September 19, 2020 by time4u2go

[rcixfan5]

I wonder if they could find a Caribbean nation that would allow a ship to anchor within its territorial waters for a small fee and process everyone as if they went on shore but don't allow anyone on shore.  From an immigration perspective they have a documented visit to another country.  Or let them step onto a pier but go no further.  What constitutes a visit to a foreign country?  

I think it would certainly be possible, whether they would do it is another. They would certainly collect port fees even if you couldn’t get off to pay for the “process”.

When we did Celebrity Eclipse out of Buenos Aires, they took and held all passports at checkin. They said it was because Falkland Islands wanted to manually inspect all passports prior to arrival. Their passport control people got on the ship at some point and before we got to that port they gave all the passports back to everyone on board the ship.

The point is that our passport had a stamp for Falkland Islands when we hadn’t even been there yet.

[twangster]

Just now, time4u2go said:

I'm not sure that sitting at "tables and chairs set apart appropriately with food and beverage service from the ship" and listening to "Locals on boats slowly floating by play[ing] live music" would be enough to meet CBP's requirements for foreign port call, but perhaps it would.

 

Right now when multiple lines use Victoria as a technical stop for a few hours after dinner many people never get off the ship.  Maybe one day CBP will flag that as unacceptable but they haven't yet.

 

What I'm proposing would likely see more guests actually get off the ship compared to Victoria.

[TravelerThom]

5 minutes ago, rcixfan5 said:

The point is that our passport had a stamp for Falkland Islands when we hadn’t even been there yet.

I have two stamps in my passport for ports we never made it to due to 1) mechanical issues and 2) weather issues. Those immigration guys got almost as 

long a cruise as we did plus plane rides at both end of their wasted trip and they got paid to take the trip. 
 

I’ll hazard a guess that your Falkland immigration guys boarded in Montevideo because even after almost 4 decades since the Malvinas debacle Argentina is still not favorably disposed to Falkland officials. 

[twangster]

Not that I think the cruise lines would ever pursue my wine induced idea, but...

 

I did find reference to the Ensenada issue in the federal register.  In that case it was a PVSA violation as opposed to a crew visa issue.  In particular since three cruise ships are authorized for coastwise trade in Hawaii it was determined that Ensenada was used by non-coastwise vessels visiting Hawaii from the mainland for the purpose of evading the PVSA .  Ensenada is currently now a port to keep certain California cruises legal as long as Hawaii isn't involved so it's not like Ensenada was the issue by itself, it was only when Ensenada was involved on closed loop Hawaii cruises from the mainland that the violation was deemed to have occurred.  Basically Norwegian who owns the authorized coastwise vessels in Hawaii objected so when they looked into it they determined it was a violation.

 

In my made up concept, there doesn't appear to be same PVSA violation as no US port is visited as a port of call on the concept closed loop cruise AND there is no coastwise authorized ship(s) that is impacted.   Perhaps this is partially why CBP hasn't been directed to consider Victoria as a PVSA evasion tactic.  If there was an authorized coastwise vessel operating this route it might be a different story.   

 

It's not like the cruise lines would ever do this, it was the wine posting it on my behalf.

 

Edited September 19, 2020 by twangster