Maybe good news for the future of cruising?

[cruiseypop]

25 minutes ago, memoak said:

There is still the issue of false negatives and positives. It will only take one false negative and the virus could be on board

 

When my doctor does blood tests, if the result is positive, my doctor will test again.  If it is positive again, then it's confirmed positive (statistically).  If the second result is negative, then a third test is done to confirm.  If the third test is positive, then it's confirmed positive.  If the third test is negative, it's confirmed negative.

 

I would think the two test approach (one before port) and again at port is designed to reduce statistical positives.

 

But, you are right, it never will be 100%.  For that there is the further mitigation of masks and social distancing.

 

Everything in my life is chance.  Nothing is 100% (even a vaccine).  And even in 20 years when this virus is "eradicated" it will crop up again somewhere and those of us still alive that went through this will say, oh my gosh, I remember when that Covid thing was a big deal as we tell our great grandchildren stories of masks and no public events.  And they will be amazed in wonder in how we handled it.

 

 

[muffydawg]

Requiring passengers to wear a medical device ie: mask that has not been prescribed by nor recommended for you in consultation with your physician with an explicit threat of negative consequence should IMHO really be reconsidered by the cruise industry. If they want to prevent one passenger from harassing another passenger onboard and the situation escalating into a physical assault then the travel industry has bigger problems than they are letting on--kinda like the State Department issuing a Level 4 do not travel to The Bahamas.  

 

Are the cruise lines implying  "bare face" is a type of criminal activity with bans for failure to comply? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cruiseypop]

10 minutes ago, muffydawg said:

Requiring passengers to wear a medical device ie: mask that has not been prescribed by nor recommended for you in consultation with your physician with an explicit threat of negative consequence should IMHO really be reconsidered by the cruise industry. If they want to prevent one passenger from harassing another passenger onboard and the situation escalating into a physical assault then the travel industry has bigger problems than they are letting on--kinda like the State Department issuing a Level 4 do not travel to The Bahamas.  

 

Are the cruise lines implying  "bare face" is a type of criminal activity with bans for failure to comply? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

One would hope someone that didn't want to wear a mask would simply exercise their free right to not go on the cruise.  For those that think otherwise, perhaps the method employed by the airlines would work?  I really feel sorry for the people that have essentially ruined their future travel lives by trying to make a political statement by not wearing a mask on an airline and being banned from flying on that airline... for life. 

 

IMHO I find it absurd that people don't stop patronizing businesses they don't like. Yet, time and time again, people continue to patronize the business and then complain and complain in the hopes the business will do business the way they want them to?

 

I simply don't go to one of grocery store in my hometown because the checkers are slow, floors are dirty and the vegetables are rotten.  I'm sure as heck not going to stand out in the front of the store and protest my right to faster checkers, cleaners floors and fresher vegetables.

 

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, memoak said:

There is still the issue of false negatives and positives. It will only take one false negative and the virus could be on board

Or a false positive to end your chance of going on your cruise.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, Thrak said:

 

Sooooo... Even though I'm feeling unwell I can have my wife, neighbor, daughter, random stranger, etc. spit into a test kit and get certified as virus free?

Reminds me of the story of an NFL player (I'm sorry I don't remember specifically his name) who failed a drug test. It seems his urine test revealed he was pregnant.

[voljeep]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Reminds me of the story of an NFL player (I'm sorry I don't remember specifically his name) who failed a drug test. It seems his urine test revealed he was pregnant.

not this , but, Onterrio Smith was a Vol ... the Whizzinator

 

maybe have a vial of 'good' spit for a pre-cruise covid test ??

 

The device received media coverage in May 2005 in the United States after Onterrio Smith, a former Minnesota Vikings running back, was caught with one at the Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, which resulted in his suspension. Actor Tom Sizemore has also brought the Whizzinator into the public eye after having been caught with one attempting to evade drug tests.

[wallyj]

2 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Or a false positive to end your chance of going on your cruise.

From what I have read, the molecular tests are quite accurate, which is currently what MSC will do if the rapid tests gives a positive. It was reported on one of the initial MSC cruises, the rapid test gave a positive and the subsequent more accurate test returned negative, so the passenger was allowed to cruise.

 

If the protocol to do double testing becomes a reality, pre test and testing at port, it will really help reduce chances of any passenger being positive. Nothing will be 100%.

 

I believe MSC has successfully had 5 seven day sailings with port stops and no outbreaks, and only doing rapid tests, with molecular done only after a positive rapid test. I think TUI is not even doing testing. I think Costa is following MSC protocols and assume AIDA will do the same.

 

What happens here in the US is still to be determined.

 

The US restrat hopefully will be on the side of more caution, as it seems to be with the  proposal of double testing.

[Steelers36]

An uncertified pre-test isn't worth much since who knows if the test sample was collected from the individual submitting it?  @Thrak noted this problem earlier.  But a pre-boarding test would be certified as someone would be collecting from a known passenger and then the result matches to the subject person.  Even though could fake it per @Thrak's idea, in the end it would not do the potential cruise passenger much good if caught at the port. 

 

Another problem is doing a pre-test close to departing for the port and it comes back positive and unless an asymptomatic victim, a re-test is needed to know if it was false and person is really negative.  It would be quite a risk to fly off to the departure port in hopes of getting a good test.  Without looking,  I am guessing it is illegal to fly if you have tested positive for COVID-19, even with no symptoms, within the past 14 days.

 

Around here where we live, you have to go to a test location and present ID, so the test sample and result are tied to a specific person and would not be able to have a surrogate do it.  We don't have any "mail in" testing here AFAIK.

Our problem is getting a test done and a timely result that meets travel provider timeline.

 

[wallyj]

See my post #9, For the Hawaii pre travel test , you are directed to the current 'contracted' vendors for testing using certified labs. Or you can go to other places as long as it is a NAAT/Molecular/PCR test that is processed at a certified CLIA lab. CLIA in this case is not  the cruise line international association. So the pre-test should have a high reliability assuming the cruise lines follow a similar protocol.

 

Hawaii is also hoping/projecting accurate more accessible and less expensive testing will become available and seeking contracts with other vendors such as Walgreens.

 

False positive from PCR test is very low.

 

Airlines are pushing for testing at airport to stimulate and increase confidence in travel, so if implemented, a positive passenger would be denied boarding.

 

Initially it makes sense you will need to go to only contracted certified vendors first. Currently CVS requires you to have symptoms to get tested, but thier contract with Hawaii allows you to get tested showing proof of booked travel within 3 days. Cruiselines may follow the same protocol.

[caribill]

1 hour ago, wallyj said:

See my post #9, For the Hawaii pre travel test , you are directed to the current 'contracted' vendors for testing using certified labs. Or you can go to other places as long as it is a NAAT/Molecular/PCR test that is processed at a certified CLIA lab. CLIA in this case is not  the cruise line international association. So the pre-test should have a high reliability assuming the cruise lines follow a similar protocol.

 

 

 

But if the results do not come back by the time you arrive in Hawaii, then you must quarantine at your own expense until the results do come in, hopefully negative.

 

If doing the testing for a cruise, you will not be allowed to quarantine on the ship until results arrive. You would be denied boarding.

 

So the problem remains -- how can you take the test wherever you are in the world pre-cruise and be

 

 

[wallyj]

3 hours ago, caribill said:

 

But if the results do not come back by the time you arrive in Hawaii, then you must quarantine at your own expense until the results do come in, hopefully negative.

 

If doing the testing for a cruise, you will not be allowed to quarantine on the ship until results arrive. You would be denied boarding.

 

So the problem remains -- how can you take the test wherever you are in the world pre-cruise and be

 

 

Passengers will need to accept a level of risk, especially when cruising first restarts. One would think part of the contracts with the testing sites is priority is given to the traveling client because of the time constraints. In my post #9, I addressed the situation if a passengers test result is not yet available. Hopefully, turnaround times stay in the current 24-48 hours estimate, giving 5 days a decent cushion. We will not know till cruising restarts and if up to 5 days is implemented. 

 

Currently, cruising in the EU, you can get tested at the port if required.  For US ports it seems likely pretravel testing will be required and probably open only to US passengers as there may be international travel restrictions still in place, as US passengers are not allowed to travel to Italy or Germany or France to catch a MSC, Costs, Aida or TUI or Ponant cruise that are currently sailing or soon to sail.

 

My thinking is the cruiselines will have a protocol in the event your tests results are not ready, such as doing a PCR test at the port, similar to what MSC does if the first rapid test returns positive. They will only do if you can prove you are still waiting for your results. This will discourage people to try and say they did not receive test results that may have been positive and try and get retest at port. I can see the testing vendors enter Passenger name, ship, sailing date and test result into a database for the cruiselines to verify, just like eVisas. There will probably be more unique identifiers as we know it is possible for people from same and different households to have the same name(middle name different, jr or senior, etc.)

 

i can see cruiselines deny boarding to those passengers who refuse to pre test for whatever reasons, they get to make the rules. I know Airlines have denied boarding to passengers who failed to complete an online travel form that was recently imposed between certain European countries.

 

The restart of cruising is also expected to be shorter cruises where the ports are within driving distance to large populations, thus cutting down the likelihood many passengers would need to fly to the port, especially with current restricted airline schedules and availability. 

 

I can see international flights requiring preflight airport testing as some countries have implemented testing upon landing. 

 

Much can change for the better or worse in the next few months, so until protocols are implemented, cruise passengers will have to decide the level of risk they are willing to bear if a test result is not ready when arriving at the port. Will insurance be available to cover potential losses if you test positive and cannot sail or denied boarding?

[Iamcruzin]

On 9/22/2020 at 8:38 PM, cruiseypop said:

I'm so hoping cruising starts up again soon.  I'm really hoping Covid-19 mitigation efforts will allow cruising start up up again sooner rather than later for U.S. ports.  

It's a lot of mitigation, but I will take it!

 

• Passengers will be required to take a test at home prior to arriving at port.
• Passengers will have assigned staggered loading times to have social distancing
• Passengers will take a Covid 19 rapid swab test right before boarding
• Passengers will be required to wear face masks on board and practice social distancing
• Temperature checks regularly during the cruise

 

For more background here are some links for your flavor of news:

 

Team Blue (Fox News article)

 

Team Red (CNN News article)

 

Hook up an IV and you have a week long stay in a hospital. It sounds dreadful.  I'm not looking to drop a dime on that experience.

[PrincessLuver]

18 hours ago, cruiseypop said:

 

I think they could come up with a variety of ways to make this work...

 

For example, the rapid covid test would be done in port at time of check-in, so they would see you, just before you enter the ship.

 

The pre-travel test could be done at a rite-aid or similar testing facility, and you would come to the port with your test results printed with your name, etc. 

 

Granted there are tons of issues/problems/one-offs with this approach as well.  But, this is what is so good about Cruise Critic forum, it is loaded with people who can think up all the issues/problems with things, so whomever is reading here can take the issues in account when coming up with the real plan 🙂

 

 

 

Airlines are going to start offering Covid testing for passengers in October it looks like.  First up passengers flying to Hawaii who do not want to face the 14 day quarantine for tourists.

 

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/united-airlines-covid-testing/index.html

[MissP22]

16 hours ago, muffydawg said:

Requiring passengers to wear a medical device ie: mask that has not been prescribed by nor recommended for you in consultation with your physician with an explicit threat of negative consequence should IMHO really be reconsidered by the cruise industry. If they want to prevent one passenger from harassing another passenger onboard and the situation escalating into a physical assault then the travel industry has bigger problems than they are letting on--kinda like the State Department issuing a Level 4 do not travel to The Bahamas.  

 

Are the cruise lines implying  "bare face" is a type of criminal activity with bans for failure to comply? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Somehow I seriously doubt that there would be enough people willing to sail when forced to wear a mask most of the time. ( or at least sufficient numbers to make it profitable). From what I'm seeing, the restrictions that might be placed on the sailing public are necessary but to restrictive for our tastes. 

We'll just bide our time & wait for a vaccine. 

[roxievegas]

Restrictions will put a hold on our cruising days.  Based on what I have read - which is not all fact - but enough to questions whether it is worth all the trouble.

I can get tested today and be negative, but be positive when I board the ship in five days - what good is the test then.

I would wear a mask, but limiting the number of people in venues will make sea days difficult.  We like to spend time in the casino and that would be hard with the number of machines reduced and spaced apart, the shows reduced in numbers - so a lot of time will be spent in the cabin.

What about the ports - some reports say that you have to be on a excursion to get off the ship, no more independent wandering.  

We will not fly to a port in case we do get refused at the ship to board - so we are very limited to which cruises we can take out of the LA or San Diego ports.

We do have two cruises booked for 2021 - one in April and one in September.  If by January things have not gotten better and restrictions are a bit more relaxed, we will cancel both and wait for 2022.

[Potstech]

23 hours ago, voljeep said:

rapid result testing is available ... or a major entertainment sector is spending a lot of money blowing smoke up the 'talent' and crew by testing on a Tuesday for work the next day

 

j/s

Was rested yesterday at doctors office and it took 15 minutes for the results as I sat there and read a book.

[Woobstr112G]

My cruises are not until September 2021 and I realize that testing requirements can be different a year from now, especially if there is a vaccine.  But let's just say testing protocols will be the same this time next year.  I am confused about pre boarding testing.  My first cruise is out of Southampton and my second one is out of NYC.  They are b2b.  With flying from LAX and a two day pre-cruise stay in SH, will I have to get a test right before I leave the USA?  Will it be honored by authorities in Southampton?  Or, will I have to runaround Southampton looking for a rapid results testing facility?  What happens for the second cruise out of NYC?  How will I get another test on turnaround day (if one is required)?  I'm willing to do what is required because of my desire to cruise, but I am confused and it is somewhat stressful as to figuring this all out.....

 

Bob

[mellon1]

3 hours ago, Woobstr112G said:

My cruises are not until September 2021 and I realize that testing requirements can be different a year from now, especially if there is a vaccine.  But let's just say testing protocols will be the same this time next year.  I am confused about pre boarding testing.  My first cruise is out of Southampton and my second one is out of NYC.  They are b2b.  With flying from LAX and a two day pre-cruise stay in SH, will I have to get a test right before I leave the USA?  Will it be honored by authorities in Southampton?  Or, will I have to runaround Southampton looking for a rapid results testing facility?  What happens for the second cruise out of NYC?  How will I get another test on turnaround day (if one is required)?  I'm willing to do what is required because of my desire to cruise, but I am confused and it is somewhat stressful as to figuring this all out.....

 

Bob

Bob, EXCELLENT question.  We are doing 7 B2B in 2022, Jan/Feb, canceled all for 2021, so we would like to know too.  In addition to that, on turnaround days, will we be permitted to leave the ship and go to Walgreens and back?  Or then will we be required to have another test.  So many unknowns.  Waiting to see what the responses will be to your question.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, Potstech said:

Was rested yesterday at doctors office and it took 15 minutes for the results as I sat there and read a book.

LOL, I often mistype r  for t or t for r, and if I end up with a real word, the spellcheck does not kick in.

[voljeep]

27 minutes ago, mellon1 said:

Bob, EXCELLENT question.  We are doing 7 B2B in 2022, Jan/Feb, canceled all for 2021, so we would like to know too.  In addition to that, on turnaround days, will we be permitted to leave the ship and go to Walgreens and back?  Or then will we be required to have another test.  So many unknowns.  Waiting to see what the responses will be to your question.

the responses will all be opinions ... nothing more ... nothing less

[cruiseypop]

54 minutes ago, mellon1 said:

Bob, EXCELLENT question.  We are doing 7 B2B in 2022, Jan/Feb, canceled all for 2021, so we would like to know too.  In addition to that, on turnaround days, will we be permitted to leave the ship and go to Walgreens and back?  Or then will we be required to have another test.  So many unknowns.  Waiting to see what the responses will be to your question.

 

Why are you waiting for responses here?  Why would Princess use this forum as official response to your questions?

 

If you have questions for Princess call them up directly on the telephone and ask them.  And if they don't know at the moment, trust that "they don't know at the moment" and wait.  I'm sorry you have to wait to find out.  I'm sorry that so much is up in the air.  Coronavirus be damned. 

 

But, if there is one thing I am sure of, is that Princess as a business will figure out how to handle your issue as a business when the time comes and I am fairly certain their rules will be their rules whether you like it or not.

 

 

[RocketMan275]

On 9/23/2020 at 10:07 AM, gardenbunny said:

I have determined that my word of the year 2020 is IF!  I seem to start every sentence with it no matter the subject. 😂

I have always been a bottom line kind of person...tell me what I need to deal with and I’ll take it from there!

A friend told me she was at an event recently that guests were given wrist bands - red, green, yellow. They all naturally wore masks.

Red - I am scared of getting the virus so do not approach me.

Yellow - I am sort of OK with talking one on one at a safe distance

Green - I am fine and want to get on with my life so you can talk to me!

As I see it, those are basically our 3 choices until vaccinations are common place.

On the positive side, if they determine the elderly should get vaccinated in the first wave along with medical workers, we could all start cruising sooner!! 😊

I wouldn't be so sure that a vaccine would mean you could start cruising tomorrow.

The good Dr. Fauci stated in the last few days that even if we get a vaccine this  year, we'll still need to be following all these protocols (Mask, social distancing, etc.) until late 2021.

Personally, I think the good Dr. will be surprised at the public response to requiring these protocols months after a vaccine is available.  

[Potstech]

48 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

LOL, I often mistype r  for t or t for r, and if I end up with a real word, the spellcheck does not kick in.

That all you got? Tough day for you.

[mellon1]

45 minutes ago, voljeep said:

the responses will all be opinions ... nothing more ... nothing less

Yes, I agree; however, I didn't think of what Bob said.  Nothing has been said about that.  True it is up to Princess, but it is a concern of ours and I appreciated his thinking about that.  We get so much info from this site.  So, it will now be a question I ask for sure.  

[cruiseypop]

1 minute ago, mellon1 said:

Yes, I agree; however, I didn't think of what Bob said.  Nothing has been said about that.  True it is up to Princess, but it is a concern of ours and I appreciated his thinking about that.  We get so much info from this site.  So, it will now be a question I ask for sure.  

 

A great idea would be to call Princess up on the telephone and the report your findings here!  Even if the answer is "we don't know" that might be helpful to some.  It's great way to find out answers and help other cruisers on the CruiseCritic community!  I would call them and ask the question, but I don't have the problem that you do.