Looks like one more month of CDC lockdown on ships

[seaman11]

15 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

I am just going to say it this way.  Everything else is open, and you can choose to go or not.  There is no reason cruise ships can't be given the same option.  Moreover, they have done WAY more and have way more measures in place to keep you safe then your local walmart, restaurant, all inclusive resort, theme park, etc, etc....

Let the ships cruise.  You don't have to want to cruise, and none of us will make anyone.

Thats the thing that gets me , if someone is not ready to cruise yet ,thats fine ,  let others go, why hoping we cant go and write letters to congressmen to keep ports shut down ? this is very selfish . if other businesses are open , casinos restaurants ,bowling alleys , so should cruise lines  also. 

[BoundForSea]

1 hour ago, Cruising Lynne said:

I would go to Florida with restrictions lifted. I wouldn't want to go if everything was closed. I would protect myself by keeping my distance from people as much as possible and wear a mask. I would wash and sanitize my hands often, disinfect my hotel room, and, hopefully soon, disinfect my cruise ship cabin. 

I work half the month in a safety critical essential job role in South Florida. I’ve been there since April. I’m smart and take precautions wherever I go. My coworkers take precautions. I stay out of crowded venues, enjoy the outdoors as much as I like, and eat at outdoor venues that use smart spacing. If you go to Miami and you pack yourself into a club or bar flooded with younger demographic without masks and distancing, yes you will put yourself at risk. 
 

I plan on positioning to FL by air the night before my cruise, go right to the hotel and then to the port in the morning. With embarkation testing or testing just prior to leaving home, don’t want to risk having any contact and not should any of my fellow passengers. 

[atanac]

23 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

...cruise ships....  have done WAY more and have way more measures in place to keep you safe then your local walmart, restaurant, all inclusive resort, theme park, etc, etc....

 

There is one glaring difference. Most of those places mentioned don't have people confined for more than

an hour or so. There is a world of difference in a group of people all confined for days inside a ship and people

out to eat or shop.

[oteixeira]

23 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Frankly, the CDC is not interested in your health if you choose to cruise, they are interested if you or someone else on that cruise brings the virus back to the port or their hometown.  That is their mandate, and that is their concern.  So, saying that everyone is free to choose to cruise or not is irrelevant.

 

And, none of the ships that everyone is interested in, those that would home port in the US, have any measures in place.

Explain to me why anything else outside of your hometown is open to you then, because by this logic, you can't go anywhere that would allow you to "bring back" a virus.  No restaurants, not theaters, no other town visits to get away (which a LOT of Americans did this year as vacations), it should all be off limits.....OR.....it should all be available and let people chose what they are comfortable with.  

[oteixeira]

1 minute ago, atanac said:

There is one glaring difference. Most of those places mentioned don't have people confined for more than

an hour or so. There is a world of difference in a group of people all confined for days inside a ship and people

out to eat or shop.

Both resorts and theme parks "confine" you in rooms on site, so that argument falls flat with me.  Both have been open for some time.

[seaman11]

11 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

Both resorts and theme parks "confine" you in rooms on site, so that argument falls flat with me.  Both have been open for some time.

Plus havent they heard of the decks that have open air ?  you dont stay confined for days.  i plan on using those decks alot for fresh air , and if i have a balcony , use that. 

[macandlucy]

I think the argument is really: are cruise ships more likely to be sources of outbreaks than other places that people congregate. If so, why?

 

What is it about a cruise ship that makes it more likely than an airplane+hotel stay+restaurant visit+park visit that makes it uniquely different? 

 

If there is something, I'm all ears. But so far, I have not seen any reason why a cruise ship environment is any different.  I have read the recommendations and if implemented, they seem to be more stringent than what I get at my local Costco/mall/train etc.

 

A poster mentioned that the amount of interacting one will do on a cruise ship is much more than one would do in a normal week at home. I think that's true for some, and untrue for others. I know people who are out and about as much as they ever were, rationalizing and justifying their actions to suit their needs.  I now go out much more than I did in March-June, see friends, shop, etc. but always with mitigation. I have learned to live with this.  I will apply the same distancing, mask and hygiene rules on a ship.

 

There's the point that a bus ride or flight or trip to the grocery store is essential, and that's true on it's face I guess, but dig even slightly below the surface and that falls apart. What's an "essential" flight? How many trips to the grocery store, mall, etc., are truly "essential"?

 

I think there's a "well, it's a vacation and there's nothing essential about a vacation" element in the argument. It's judgy, because who's to say what's essential for each of us really?  

 

The USA has over seven million infections -- most of those were caught on land.  Cruises have been cancelled since March, when cases in the US were less than one million. 

 

There is a significant difference though between cruising and daily life and that's testing: since passengers and crew will be tested, and grocery store and mall patrons are not, the chances of encountering someone who is covid positive on a ship seem to be quite a bit lower than the chances of encountering someone positive on an ordinary day.

 

The chances of getting covid on a ship is not zero. It's never going to be zero. But for me, with mitigation efforts, I believe the risk can get low enough that I am comfortable with it.

 

[DCGuy64]

50 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

Both resorts and theme parks "confine" you in rooms on site, so that argument falls flat with me.  Both have been open for some time.

Yeah, I was about to say, that argument really doesn't wash with me, either. I'm thinking back to the cruises I've already taken, and then to the trip we took to a resort in Mexico towards the end of August-early Sept. I did essentially the same things there as I would on a cruise ship, i.e. sleep, eat, drink, and swim. And we were fine. In fact, when we're onboard, we don't just sit around talking with people in close proximity for hours. We move around, we walk out in the fresh air, or we relax in our cabins when we're not at the pool, gym or one of the ship's restaurants. And keep in mind that NO ONE is talking about a return to cruising as it was in 2019 with no PPE or social distancing. All of the lines operating in Europe are sailing with safety protocols and lowered capacity. I believe the same will hold true for the US market, certainly at first. I believe that the cruise lines have so much riding on a safe resumption of cruising, they're going to be very pro-active.

[Formula280SS]

It seems as though the No Sail Order will be extended to October 31st to align with the CLIA voluntary sailing suspension. 

 

That would not assume, however, that there will be sailing November 1st.

 

Rather IMO, it gives all parties time to get to the specifics of the ultimate plan acceptable to all (that will be regulatory in final form).

 

Logistically, without assurance, the cruise lines clearly cannot man (crew into current location) and sail in reposition their specific ships in the USA.  Also, from what many have noted it appears to be a several month process and not include all ships (rather phased in, as was an is being done by MSC with Grandiosa under stringent protocols).

 

So, we'll see.  That's just IMO.

 

Financially, IMO, cruise lines will still be incurring the monthly "burn rate" well into 2021 if C-19 does not resurrect at vigorous levels (if it does, it likely will be a reboot to a shut down in the USA if a port locality or a number of ships are identified as causal).

Edited September 30, 2020 by Formula280SS

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, oteixeira said:

Explain to me why anything else outside of your hometown is open to you then, because by this logic, you can't go anywhere that would allow you to "bring back" a virus.  No restaurants, not theaters, no other town visits to get away (which a LOT of Americans did this year as vacations), it should all be off limits.....OR.....it should all be available and let people chose what they are comfortable with.  

The CDC only has a mandate to prevent the introduction of infectious diseases into the US, or between states.  They have no control, nor can the mandate anything, about what happens within a single state. That is the mandate of your state's Department of Public Health or State CDC.  When you board a cruise ship, you are leaving the US, and when you come back, you are re-entering the US, and that is the line that the CDC has control over.

 

It is just like swimming pool sanitation.  The CDC regulates pool sanitation on cruise ships to prevent anyone getting sick and bringing something back to the US.  However, they cannot regulate your local pool, and this is why when they did a study of municipal pools a few years ago, they found that 85% of them would be closed immediately if they were held to CDC requirements.  They can't do anything locally.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, oteixeira said:

Both resorts and theme parks "confine" you in rooms on site, so that argument falls flat with me.  Both have been open for some time.

Again, what happens at a theme park is a local, county, or state issue, and the CDC has absolutely no control over what is done there.

[JamieLogical]

I am fascinated by how little people understand about what actually falls under the purview of the CDC. Theme parks, football stadiums, restaurants, movie theaters.... The CDC has no authority over any of those things.

[seaman11]

43 minutes ago, JamieLogical said:

I am fascinated by how little people understand about what actually falls under the purview of the CDC. Theme parks, football stadiums, restaurants, movie theaters.... The CDC has no authority over any of those things.

Thats not what ppl are saying, they are saying in general if these things are open so should cruises. cdc has been over ruled so we will see what happens in the next few months. 

[MoCruiseFan]

9 hours ago, beerman2 said:

It still doesn't mean ships will be ready to sail in November 2020. CDC can still extend monthly as they just did.

 

With no guarantee the CDC won't extend again cruise lines can't get crew back, provision ships and teach all the new protocols, etc. Much work still ahead.

It doesn't mean they wont be either.

[oteixeira]

1 hour ago, JamieLogical said:

I am fascinated by how little people understand about what actually falls under the purview of the CDC. Theme parks, football stadiums, restaurants, movie theaters.... The CDC has no authority over any of those things.

I totally understand what the CDC has authority over, what I am saying is they should not be blocking it, period.  The CDC should look at the rest of the country and see that these things are open and we are not reversing into a horrible spike, so they should not be forcing the one thing they have control over into a lock down.  

[farmersfight]

6 hours ago, seaman11 said:

iv gone to the beach this summer in nc , been to Atlantic City twice . and this is exactly what i do , purel the light switches, remote , phones, ac controls.  anything i would touch lysol the bed and couch.    im not going to live in fear, just be careful. 

 

[beerman2]

28 minutes ago, MoCruiseFan said:

It doesn't mean they wont be either.

Without a hard date to sail, do you think the cruise lines have enough time to get crew here, train them in new protocols, implement whatever new requirements the cruise lines have to abide by?  Of the 74 the NCL/RCI panel of experts  say need to happen 52 must be kept in place. And some of those seem very costly.

 

Once that hard date is agreed upon it will still take about 4 weeks to ready the ships. It's not like turning on the ignition in your car and off and running one goes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[krittykat]

15 hours ago, ziggyuk said:

 

Not much of an option though

States like Florida lifting the rules IMHO will only result in an increase in infection just as seen in Europe and will do nothing but extend all of the above.

 

I completely agree. Have yiu seen their daily infection numbers . I had some family members go down for a Disney vacation...unfortunately they all came back with Covid infections

[BoundForSea]

Changing up the topic a bit...

 

I’m booked on Escape in mid December just prior to the holidays. 

 

If NCL is given a green light fir Nov, which ship or ships do you believe will go into service prior to the New Year? 

 

BTW, I’ve been told straight from NCL Reps that it will take them 6 weeks from green light to first embarkation to prepare a ship. That puts it right about Oct 1 for a Nov 15 go. 

 

I’m watching the BA+ fleet over in Asia and the Baltics on AIS carefully to see if they begin to migrate. Those will be the crew’s ride back and out first indication of action. 
 

They also have to factor in the 14 day quarantine after arriving before boarding I guess. 

 

NCL sent letters out to all their contractors a few weeks back telling them to get their documents and shots ready to go. 

 

 

Edited October 1, 2020 by BoundForSea

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, oteixeira said:

I totally understand what the CDC has authority over, what I am saying is they should not be blocking it, period.  The CDC should look at the rest of the country and see that these things are open and we are not reversing into a horrible spike, so they should not be forcing the one thing they have control over into a lock down.  

While there may not be a spike at the moment, the US has plateaued at around 40,000 new cases daily, which to me is not "progress". And, just like anything else, any one restriction lifted could cause a spike, we haven't found the one yet (maybe colleges?), maybe cruising would be the one.

[oteixeira]

28 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While there may not be a spike at the moment, the US has plateaued at around 40,000 new cases daily, which to me is not "progress". And, just like anything else, any one restriction lifted could cause a spike, we haven't found the one yet (maybe colleges?), maybe cruising would be the one.

And to me a "plateau" is another word for flat, which means we have flattened the curve they spoke of.  If that is the case we have to open things and see.  I respect your opinion (when you say that "to me it is not progress"),  but it is your opinion.  Mine is that we have flattened the curve, and we should have things opening.  I want to live in a world where we try and see, not one where we posture "maybe" about what will cause us our demise.  

I hope you have a great day, and thank you for the conversation.

[RocketMan275]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

While there may not be a spike at the moment, the US has plateaued at around 40,000 new cases daily, which to me is not "progress". And, just like anything else, any one restriction lifted could cause a spike, we haven't found the one yet (maybe colleges?), maybe cruising would be the one.

Or, maybe not.  Have you considered the reason the lifting of those restrictions haven't caused a spike is the ineffectiveness of the restrictions in mitigating the virus?

[beerman2]

17 hours ago, JamieLogical said:

I am fascinated by how little people understand about what actually falls under the purview of the CDC. Theme parks, football stadiums, restaurants, movie theaters.... The CDC has no authority over any of those things.

Jamie 

This made me do a reread " how little people understand". Can't big people do the same😂😂. Just goes to show it's all in how it's decifered. Took me a second.

[Formula280SS]

The CDC isn't the only player locking down cruise ships via a No Sail Order.

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/carnival-corp-ships-may-need-court-ok-60-days-us-resumption

 

 

[oteixeira]

23 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

The CDC isn't the only player locking down cruise ships via a No Sail Order.

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/legal-regulatory/carnival-corp-ships-may-need-court-ok-60-days-us-resumption

 

 

Well, that wont stop NCLH or RCCL from sailing, so we will get NCL, Celebrity, and RCL at least going (I hope).