CDC No Sail Order Extended Thru October

[Syracusefan44]

Per Axios the CDC wanted it extended into 2021 but they were overruled by the White House.

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/23576-cruise-ship-no-sail-order-set-to-extend-through-october.html?fbclid=IwAR3KG_nH17Wq_7oXKpiEJ5ycH3YO39jGqPqV8CfcGBIc4vJQYtz-5QpyHXY

[Syracusefan44]

Here is a link to another story.   https://www.axios.com/scoop-white-house-overruled-cdc-cruise-ships-florida-91442136-1b8e-442e-a2a1-0b24e9a39fb6.html

[BSR]

Thanks for the links.

[Tak8]

Article isn't going to make potential passengers feel any better about getting on a ship.

[iamaqt2]

I wonder if the cruise lines will pull the trigger this month on their Healthy Sail plans.  Calling in crew to quarantine, get sanitation protocols in place, and ramp up for a November 1st sail date.  Seems like an awful fast timeline, but I know they need to get up and running soon.  They've been hemorrhaging cash these last 6-7 months.

[By The Bay]

I will be guided by the science before I cruise again.😷

[tert333]

There is no way they will start to calling crew back unless they are given assurance by the white house that it will not be extended past October 31.

 

 

[caribill]

5 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

I wonder if the cruise lines will pull the trigger this month on their Healthy Sail plans.  Calling in crew to quarantine, get sanitation protocols in place, and ramp up for a November 1st sail date.  Seems like an awful fast timeline, but I know they need to get up and running soon.  They've been hemorrhaging cash these last 6-7 months.

 

Princess is not aiming for November 1st. They are aiming for a mid-December restart.

 

If the ban is extended past October 31, then December sailings will not be possible.

[chengkp75]

11 hours ago, iamaqt2 said:

I wonder if the cruise lines will pull the trigger this month on their Healthy Sail plans.  Calling in crew to quarantine, get sanitation protocols in place, and ramp up for a November 1st sail date.  Seems like an awful fast timeline, but I know they need to get up and running soon.  They've been hemorrhaging cash these last 6-7 months.

I suspect that as of 1 Nov, the CDC will have made new federal regulations (that is what the "request for information" was all about, it is a necessary step in making new or changing regulations) that make the requirements of the no sail order permanent, and since the "Healthy Sail" plan is not a plan, but an advisory board recommendation, and nowhere near what is required as an action/response plan as required by the no sail order, the lines can start recalling crew all they want, but I doubt that cruising will restart in November, or even December.

[CCFC]

As of this moment that should read ban expected to be extended through October.

[spyro1952]

6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I suspect that as of 1 Nov, the CDC will have made new federal regulations (that is what the "request for information" was all about, it is a necessary step in making new or changing regulations) that make the requirements of the no sail order permanent, and since the "Healthy Sail" plan is not a plan, but an advisory board recommendation, and nowhere near what is required as an action/response plan as required by the no sail order, the lines can start recalling crew all they want, but I doubt that cruising will restart in November, or even December.

I agree.  Covid cases will increase during winter months making it impossible to put people  together in confined spaces especially a cruise ship.

[Steelers36]

1 hour ago, spyro1952 said:

I agree.  Covid cases will increase during winter months making it impossible to put people  together in confined spaces especially a cruise ship.

 

But this is speculation - no one really knows if cases will increase or decrease by winter.  

 

According to @chengkp75 - who is an expert in running of ships - there will be new federal regulations.  IDK how close the CLIA recommendations are to a "plan" - I am no expert.  But if there is an acceptable plan and protocols in place, why wouldn't ships be allowed to begin sailing again?  

 

It's a very difficult situation - to make decision on going ahead or not based on guessing future case levels??  Many non-experts (i.e. cruisers) have posted opinions on the cruise line proposals and most have felt they are reasonable and good, while many do not like restrictions that might be placed on ports of call land visits (me included and will wait to go), and many want to have a vaccine before going.  

 

So, just what is it people and the governing bodies want to see as protocols in order to allow sailing again from US ports?

 

This situation - not knowing what is expected/required - reminds me of the Canada-US land border closure that keeps being extended "for safety", but the government doesn't outline what conditions they are looking for in order to re-open.  Meanwhile, we can still fly. 

 

I'd like to see the target(s) to be achieved in order to make a change in legislation.

 

 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Steelers36

[chengkp75]

40 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

 

But this is speculation - no one really knows if cases will increase or decrease by winter.  

 

According to @chengkp75 - who is an expert in running of ships - there will be new federal regulations.  IDK how close the CLIA recommendations are to a "plan" - I am no expert.  But if there is an acceptable plan and protocols in place, why wouldn't ships be allowed to begin sailing again?  

 

It's a very difficult situation - to make decision on going ahead or not based on guessing future case levels??  Many non-experts (i.e. cruisers) have posted opinions on the cruise line proposals and most have felt they are reasonable and good, while many do not like restrictions that might be placed on ports of call land visits (me included and will wait to go), and many want to have a vaccine before going.  

 

So, just what is it people and the governing bodies want to see as protocols in order to allow sailing again from US ports?

 

This situation - not knowing what is expected/required - reminds me of the Canada-US land border closure that keeps being extended "for safety", but the government doesn't outline what conditions they are looking for in order to re-open.  Meanwhile, we can still fly. 

 

I'd like to see the target(s) to be achieved in order to make a change in legislation.

 

 

The CDC has set requirements, in the no sail order, based on "best practices" to preserve the health of the US population in general, not the health of anyone on a cruise ship.  The CDC's mandate is to prevent the introduction of infectious disease into the US, not to keep people healthy on cruise ships.  I am speculating that these requirements will become regulations, based on the "request for information" that the CDC had this month, which is a pre-requisite for changing regulations.  Once the requirements are set forth, it is up to industry to determine how best to meet those requirements, and set forth specific action/response plans.  The Healthy Sail board report is not an action/response plan, it is a recommendation from an advisory committee.  Wherever that report says, "the cruise lines should do" such and so, the cruise lines' action plans need to list the specific actions, personnel, and equipment required to meet those recommendations, or the CDC's requirements.  Government required action/response plans, like the CDC's VSP (Vessel Sanitation Program), or a VRP (Vessel Response Plan, the plan that covers what a company will do in case of an oil spill) are very long, incredibly detailed, and will include such things as the actual name, contact information, and assets provided by all contracted companies, in this case, the private hospitals, private ambulance services, and private quarantine facilities, in each port, that the CDC requires, and that the Healthy Sail board says "cruise lines should provide" these services.  The plans need to get down to daily activities of the ship and crew in preventing, limiting, and remediating any covid infections onboard.

 

The requirements have been out there for the cruise industry since March, it is only recently that they have even gotten an expert panel to provide recommendations, which were presented to the CDC as "position papers", to see if the CDC agrees that the recommendations in the report meet the CDC's requirement, and then a long process of developing and review of action/response plans will happen.

[Steelers36]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The plans need to get down to daily activities of the ship and crew in preventing, limiting, and remediating any covid infections onboard.

From what you wrote above, it would seem the cruise lines could have been working on these nitty-gritty details already, and to the extent that they have dallied, they will have further delays in opening up while getting their acts together.  (I am reading a bit between the lines here).

 

[chengkp75]

17 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

From what you wrote above, it would seem the cruise lines could have been working on these nitty-gritty details already, and to the extent that they have dallied, they will have further delays in opening up while getting their acts together.  (I am reading a bit between the lines here).

 

Yeah, based on comments from Carnival's CEO last month or the month before, saying it was "too soon" to be discussing protocols on the ships, since they didn't know what would be required, when the requirements were there in black and white, but they were hoping that both the pandemic and the requirements would go away, I would say that no work on actual action plans has been taken, nor will it until the discussion between the lines and the CDC regarding the Healthy Sail report agree on what is "doable".

[voljeep]

5 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, based on comments from Carnival's CEO last month or the month before, saying it was "too soon" to be discussing protocols on the ships, since they didn't know what would be required, when the requirements were there in black and white, but they were hoping that both the pandemic and the requirements would go away, I would say that no work on actual action plans has been taken, nor will it until the discussion between the lines and the CDC regarding the Healthy Sail report agree on what is "doable".

are you currently on a ship? - what are your specific procedures and protocols about ports, testing, masks, etc ?

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, voljeep said:

are you currently on a ship? - what are your specific procedures and protocols about ports, testing, masks, etc ?

Yes, I am.  Our procedures and protocols are in a controlled document, so I can't share them, but they include what and where shoreside personnel can go on the ship, what they must do when boarding, how joining crew must quarantine for 14 days before returning to work, and then wear masks and quarantine as much away from the rest of the crew as possible (eating meals in their cabin), since they were then exposed to air travel, wearing masks when interacting with shorebased personnel, galley staff having to wear masks at all times during food prep and service, and on and on.  Plus, we get questionnaires from contractors who are coming to the ship explaining their company policies and asking for ours.

 

But then again, we are a crew of 20, not a thousand, and don't have a few thousand passengers to be responsible for.  And, our plan came out back in March, and while it does not have to be approved by the CDC, it does have to meet best practices for our class society as it is part of the ISM system.  Trust me, I work every day in a covid regulated industry.  Since we are considered essential workers, this is why we must have action plans.  For our little ship of 20 souls, the covid plan runs to 10-15 pages.

[donaldsc]

19 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

 CDC will make decisions with and abundance of caution to disease prevention.

 

The whitehouse and current federal leadership is focused only on what gets them four more years, all about getting enough people to tilt, so which makes cruising more likely ?

 

let them sail and make it look like business as usual, or be cautious.

 

 

 

This is what actually happened at the mtg where the decision on the reopening was decided.  The CDC was overruled by the politicians - again.

 

"According to Axios, CDC director Robert Redfield was overruled when he pushed to extend the order on cruises next year, citing two sources with direct knowledge of the conversation Sept. 29 in the White House Situation Room.

According to Axios, during a meeting of the Trump administration's coronavirus task force, Redfield argued to extend the order until February "because of the virus' severity and the vulnerability for spread on cruises."

Vice president Mike Pence reportedly oversaw the meeting in which the administration decided to extend the No Sail Order by one month"

 

DON

[Earthworm Jim]

3 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

This is what actually happened at the mtg where the decision on the reopening was decided.  The CDC was overruled by the politicians - again.

 

"According to Axios, CDC director Robert Redfield was overruled when he pushed to extend the order on cruises next year, citing two sources with direct knowledge of the conversation Sept. 29 in the White House Situation Room.

According to Axios, during a meeting of the Trump administration's coronavirus task force, Redfield argued to extend the order until February "because of the virus' severity and the vulnerability for spread on cruises."

Vice president Mike Pence reportedly oversaw the meeting in which the administration decided to extend the No Sail Order by one month"

 

DON

 

Assuming that is accurate, it doesn't necessarily indicate a problem. The politicians didn't want to commit to so many months at once. But that doesn't preclude them from ultimately making the correct decisions on a month to month basis. In theory, the month by month approach might even be better if there is any chance of things improving before the end of February.

 

It only becomes a problem if down the road the decision to lift the no sail order is made for political rather than medical reasons.

[joepeka]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Yeah, based on comments from Carnival's CEO last month or the month before, saying it was "too soon" to be discussing protocols on the ships, since they didn't know what would be required, when the requirements were there in black and white, but they were hoping that both the pandemic and the requirements would go away, I would say that no work on actual action plans has been taken, nor will it until the discussion between the lines and the CDC regarding the Healthy Sail report agree on what is "doable".

This is very disappointing Chief, that the cruise lines knew what the CDC requirements to sail were but apparently just hoped the situation would evaporate. Given where the cruise lines appear to be today in documenting fully how they will meet the requirements, I agree that it's doubtful there will be any sailing from the US before December or even the end of 2020.

Edited September 30, 2020 by joepeka

[Ken the cruiser]

Here's an interesting side note. CDC has yet to officizally extend the No Sail Order as of 12:10 pm EST. Has there been an official CDC released since then?

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5632/?et_cid=3363839&et_rid=176051894&et_referrer=CC_Survey_2015

 

[2 cruises a year]

41 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Here's an interesting side note. CDC has yet to officizally extend the No Sail Order as of 12:10 pm EST. Has there been an official CDC released since then?

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5632/?et_cid=3363839&et_rid=176051894&et_referrer=CC_Survey_2015

 

Here is the link to the CDC No Sail Order.  As of 7:10 EDT nothing beyond the September No Sail Order.

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/s0716-cruise-ship-no-sail-order.html

 

[PrincessLuver]

22 hours ago, By The Bay said:

I will be guided by the science before I cruise again.😷

 

We are the same way.....they cannot even keep NFL players safe with daily testing and I am going to expect cruise lines to keep me and my family safe.  

[gmjc2]

Just read the Cruise Critic update and they are reporting at 6:30 pm that there is no decision on extending the cruise ban by CDC.

Who do we believe?   

[capriccio]

CNBC is reporting the official extension of the ban until October 31st:  https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/30/cdc-extends-ban-on-cruising-through-october-.html

 

Executives of the cruise companies and CLIA are planning a meeting at the White House on Friday, CNBC’s Seema Mody reported.