Jump to content

No sail order extended to October 31st.


Arizona Wildcat
 Share

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, alwaysonaship said:

There are a lot of people who take Covid-19 very seriously. Sadly there are those who think 200,000 plus American deaths is no big deal. This whole thing is a very big deal. We don’t go to Walmart period, but we do wear masks, get groceries from pickup, and stay home. Will be we able to cruise again, well I hope so, but until many of you grasp the concept of a pandemic it will not “just go away”. It takes cooperation from everyone. We just are not there yet.

 

You do understand that those numbers are not accurate, don't you?  If you die of anything today, you've died of Covid.  The hospitals get reimbursed more if you died of Covid.  From what I've read, about 6% of that number have actually died of Covid.

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, upwarduk said:

Is the passenger responsible for pre testing before they arrive at the port?

At the moment, its almost impossible to get a test in the UK, even for those patients who have symptoms.

Certainly I don’t think out NHS should be paying for passengers who wish to cruise.

My daughter and family recently flew to Madeira. They were tested on arrival at Funchal. They had to quarantine at their hotel until the results were sent to them by text, which took 6-12 hrs. Fortunately, they were all clear and were allowed to continue with their holiday.  

Using the Royal Caribbean/NCL return to cruising guidelines seems you would be responsible for the before cruising testing.  The cruise line for required testing at the port before boarding.  Likely you if ill on board.

The current availability or lack of testing today is not important.  If the guidelines are used it will be Spring 2021 before we are cruising to multiple ports.  Ports need to open, travel restrictions need to be at least relaxed.  3 months ago testing here was almost impossible.  Today you walk in.  Fast forward 4 or 5 months and testing likely will be more available.  Lots of changes coming.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

You do understand that those numbers are not accurate, don't you?  If you die of anything today, you've died of Covid.  The hospitals get reimbursed more if you died of Covid.  From what I've read, about 6% of that number have actually died of Covid.

 

If you had Covid and died, you died of Covid. It makes no difference if you are older or have a preexisting condition that made your body more vulnerable to the virus. Without the virus they would probably still be alive. According to your comment, if a person gets hit, and killed in a car accident, they died of covid.

Accusing the hospitals of falsifying records is just laughable. There’s such things, such as, honesty and ethical. The 6% number must have been posted on one of the c.c. boards.  

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

 

If you had Covid and died, you died of Covid. It makes no difference if you are older or have a preexisting condition that made your body more vulnerable to the virus. Without the virus they would probably still be alive. According to your comment, if a person gets hit, and killed in a car accident, they died of covid.

Accusing the hospitals of falsifying records is just laughable. There’s such things, such as, honesty and ethical. The 6% number must have been posted on one of the c.c. boards.  

c.c boards = c.c. scientists, at least these days.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

You do understand that those numbers are not accurate, don't you?  If you die of anything today, you've died of Covid.  The hospitals get reimbursed more if you died of Covid.  From what I've read, about 6% of that number have actually died of Covid.

This type of misinformation is so incorrect, that I have to post.

 

First of all if a hospital files incorrect information when billing the federal government it is a felony.  Do you really think that  multiple hospitals would commit a crime for a few additional reimbursement dollars, when being convicted of a felony would make them unable to participate in and get reimbursed for other federal programs such as medicare (where most of their funding actually comes from).  For your statement to be correct most if not all of the hospitals would have to be knowingly and actively committing crimes.

 

The 6 percent figure comes from the CDC multiple cause of death data base (the CDC wonder system).  When a death certificate is filled out it will include any and all possible contributors of death.  So for example if someone dies of COVID while in intensive care in a hospital and they experienced various organ failures, the death certificate will list those as additional causes.  Most deaths that occur in a hospital will list multiple causes.  The 6 percent figure  is the percentage of deaths for which COVID was listed as the only cause.  It is not the only deaths caused by COVID, but it is the percentage for which COVID was the only cause listed. If I am in the hospital with COVID and have a stroke, the death certificate will list both.

If I have COVID and develop pneumonia the death certificate will list both. So out of the people that have been reported as as victims of COVID 94% list additional items, 6% list only COVID.

 

This information is captured because there are useful reasons to analyze the data to see the breakdown of how the illness actual develops and kills people.

 

As a friend of mine likes to say (he is a pathologist) "in the end everyone dies of heart failure since in all cases of death their heart stops."

Edited by nocl
  • Like 11
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, alwaysonaship said:

There are a lot of people who take Covid-19 very seriously. Sadly there are those who think 200,000 plus American deaths is no big deal. This whole thing is a very big deal. We don’t go to Walmart period, but we do wear masks, get groceries from pickup, and stay home. Will be we able to cruise again, well I hope so, but until many of you grasp the concept of a pandemic it will not “just go away”. It takes cooperation from everyone. We just are not there yet.

The CDC has said only 6% of deaths are COVID only...YMMV.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, nocl said:

If I have COVID and develop pneumonia the death certificate will list both. So out of the people that have been reported as as victims of COVID 94% list additional items, 6% list only COVID.

 

 

How do you die of only COVID? That sounds like some states/localities aren't reporting correctly to begin with? COVID is the etiology, and the way the CDC is requesting reporting, that would be the first listed cause of death, but the pathology would be pneumonia, respiratory failure, cardiorespiratory failure, multi-organ system failure, sepsis, etc.

 

What the 6% figure tells me is that for those deaths, people were overwhelmed, out of time, or for some other reasons didn't fully fill out the information for reporting, not that 94% of the deaths had some huge other cause of death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

How do you die of only COVID? That sounds like some states/localities aren't reporting correctly to begin with? COVID is the etiology, and the way the CDC is requesting reporting, that would be the first listed cause of death, but the pathology would be pneumonia, respiratory failure, cardiorespiratory failure, multi-organ system failure, sepsis, etc.

 

What the 6% figure tells me is that for those deaths, people were overwhelmed, out of time, or for some other reasons didn't fully fill out the information for reporting, not that 94% of the deaths had some huge other cause of death.

Not reporting correctly?  If someone has asthma, early stages of cancer, mild heart disease, high blood pressure, or whatever...without COVID they would probably not have died.  Sounds like to me anyway, folks are just looking for a reason.  Most amazing line, "what the 6% figure tells me...these were overwhelmed , out of time"....beyond stupid...hope you or your family don't fall into that category.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, nocl said:

I would not refer to this as a compromise.  From all reports I have seen the CDC indicated that they wanted to extend until the end of February.  That was over ruled (directly by Pence according to reports) and the CDC was told that the October date would be used. No compromise involved.

 

Also that the cruise lines will be meeting directly with the White House and presenting their plans to restart.

 

I consider this to be the worst of all possible outcomes, and one that I was afraid would happen, when word came out a week or so ago that HHS was removing signature authority for new regulations form both the FDA and CDC. It is worst in that it now appears that CDC is being pushed out of the process.  

 

I had hoped that the CDC would extend the sailing restrictions, but not with a total ban, but just until the cruise lines submitted and got detailed plans approved (similar to what has been done in Europe).  That those plans would require not only details on process and procedures, specific details on out break management, including how passengers would disembarked  in case of an outbreak, and requirements for testing crew, including the reporting of this information to CDC.  In other words put some monitoring and strict structure to the general nature of the CLIA proposals.

 

If those reports are true I expect that the cruise lines will have accomplished their 2 primary goals. 1. to restart sailing 2. to prevent any new regulations and over sight into cruise line operations by the CDC.  It is my view that to the cruise lines item 2 is almost as important as item 1. I think that the cruise lines feared new regulations for the CDC to have a more direct hand in monitoring health on cruise ships operating out of US ports, including more detailed illness reports, beyond the currently required Norovirus reports.

 

I hope I am wrong, but I expect that the cruise lines will be able to restart, without CDC reviewing and approving detailed plans. Instead the White House will meet with the cruise lines and will allow them to restart based on much more general CLIA type proposals.

 

In that case I have no trust in the cruise lines to do the items that are really necessary to safely restart.  In the past they have not shown that they will put safety and other matters (environmental protection for example) above their financials, beyond the degree necessary to protect those financials. They have tended to be very obscure about health and safety matters, having demonstrated a view that if they could get a problem off of a ship it was not longer a problem.  As well as having demonstrated a powerful lobbying history in limiting regulatory authorities in the US.

 

As a result I have terminated my old account  (NPCL) which stood for No Particular Cruise Line, since I sailed pretty much all of them, and created a new one (nocl) which stands for NO Cruise Line.  Since if this progresses as I expect it will be a long time before I will set foot on a cruise ship. I also expect it may end up being a negative for the cruise lines that I have often enjoyed in the past. I pretty much stopped posting after watching the actions of the HHS Secretary. I do not expect to be posting much in the future, unless this does turn differently than I expect.

 

Good luck and good health to all of you.

And that’s is 100% your choice. But let the rest of us who want to cruise do so!

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, sakigemcam said:

We're in the throes of deciding if we should do the March '21 cruise we have been craving desperately instead of unappealing lift and shift options. We were on the Silhouette last year when everything changed. It caused us a lot of anxiety.

While we really really really want this cruise to happen, and while we are healthy, cautious, etc., the thought of a possible quarantine due to others possibly not being as stringent is what has us conflicted. Agree with poster above sharing how much more we know about the virus, how much better we can treat it, how much better we are avoiding it, but again, what would that mean in terms of quarantine? Not to mention that politics and other factors keep us from truly having a handle on possible vaccine. We have jobs to get back to (also family, friends, cat) and a two week quarantine, or perhaps being locked out of our state, would be inconvenient at the least. 

We know we are not alone in feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of this decision. 

 

#firstworldproblems

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, RICCruisers said:

 

Your response is puzzling. Are you really trying to compare a 10 or 20 minute trip to a Walmart to a 7 to 14 night trip on a cruise ship?  If you honestly feel they are the same I’m sure there is no reason for me to take any time to try and explain the differences. 

If everyone has a negative test than isn’t a ship the safest place to be? I don’t know what I’m missing 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Not reporting correctly?  If someone has asthma, early stages of cancer, mild heart disease, high blood pressure, or whatever...without COVID they would probably not have died.  Sounds like to me anyway, folks are just looking for a reason.  Most amazing line, "what the 6% figure tells me...these were overwhelmed , out of time"....beyond stupid...hope you or your family don't fall into that category.   

 

That's why COVID would go on the top line. The other things are also supposed to be listed. And they probably had pneumonia, etc. You're either misunderstanding or misinterpreting what I wrote; COVID would cause the pneumonia, multiple organ system failure, etc., which should be reflected in the database. So it's odd to me that 94% of reports include other information and 6% do not. Which is usually either a matter of time, or different interpretations of how to report.

 

And beyond stupid is unnecessary. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you truly want to follow the science, than there is no better science than what you are seeing right before your eyes. What is the data are we seeing in front of our eyes at the reopening of schools.... in 30 counties around the world with no mitigation schemes, no masks, or social distancing and the answer is: absolutely no uptick in cases, no transmission from children to teachers or elderly grandparents. All things people were concerned about.
 

The opening of Disney in Florida is not resulting in a huge uptick in hospitalizations or god forbid deaths of Covid 19. It just simply isn’t.

 

If they open up the ships they know they’ll be exposed for the exaggeration this “pandemic” really is. Yes every death is a tragedy... but I don’t intend on staying on home for eternity to continue this failed social experiment.

Edited by pumpkin 11
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have a good friend in Minneapolis who is a mortician.  He made two comments that are relevant.

He told me to look at the number of deaths by month - he reminded me I need to not use the 3 most recent months as death certificates often do not get filed for months - and see how there are thousands of additional deaths in 2020 without any explanation except COVID.

He also noted that many death certificates that he receives have NOTHING listed as the cause.  He would contact the physician to ask.  This year he was too busy and doctors did not return calls so he gave up.  Those certificates with causation almost always listed several.

On a personal note we camped for 2 months in the Rocky Mountains.  Many people we met reported that they or friends were very ill with terrible flu like symptoms in January and February.  The flu here was mild this winter.  I have no explanation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am boarding Mein Schiff 1 tomorrow afternoon. Have been tested negativ so I am good to go. Of course there is no garantie that I don´t catch the bugger until sailing date- but I am very carfeull - ever since the beginn of the Pandemic.

I felt very safe on my first little blue journey and will do so this time. All those precautions TUI CRUISES took seem to work- of course one can take nothing for granted and in consideration for others had to wear his mask, when social distancing can not be adhered.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, pumpkin 11 said:

If everyone has a negative test than isn’t a ship the safest place to be? I don’t know what I’m missing 

 

  1. Tests are not 100% accurate. There are both false positive and false negative results.
  2. Someone could be exposed to the virus while traveling to the cruise (e.g., by air) and they will almost certainly test negative prior to boarding because they do not yet have enough viral load to test positive. Yet during the course of the course they can infect others.
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, sakigemcam said:

We're in the throes of deciding if we should do the March '21 cruise we have been craving desperately instead of unappealing lift and shift options. We were on the Silhouette last year when everything changed. It caused us a lot of anxiety.

While we really really really want this cruise to happen, and while we are healthy, cautious, etc., the thought of a possible quarantine due to others possibly not being as stringent is what has us conflicted. Agree with poster above sharing how much more we know about the virus, how much better we can treat it, how much better we are avoiding it, but again, what would that mean in terms of quarantine? Not to mention that politics and other factors keep us from truly having a handle on possible vaccine. We have jobs to get back to (also family, friends, cat) and a two week quarantine, or perhaps being locked out of our state, would be inconvenient at the least. 

We know we are not alone in feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place in terms of this decision. 

 

s - I understand the angst... I Am in a similar situation, yet I would plan on baking in the quarantine time just in case...

 

I know there are quite a few who cannot take this approach, but I have already told my employer (Me) that extra time will be needed just in case of the need to quarantine... LOL

 

Keep healthy and bon voyage

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, CruiseSoon123 said:

The procedures submitted by Celebrity indicate passengers need to show negative COVID testing before embarking and then temperature testing will be conducted through-out the cruise. I wonder, what does this mean for someone who gets diagnosed with COVID during the cruise?  Will they not be let back on the ship, say in Columbia or other port?  Or, will the person testing positive be let back on / remain on the Celebrity ship but quarantined to their cabin (or other location) until the ship makes it back to the final destination (say FLL)?

Whatever the procedure might be, each of us needs to make absolutely certain that our Travel Insurance will cover this in part or full...

 

In health and bon voyage

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

You do understand that those numbers are not accurate, don't you?  If you die of anything today, you've died of Covid.  The hospitals get reimbursed more if you died of Covid.  From what I've read, about 6% of that number have actually died of Covid.

Personally, I believe the numbers are accurate, even if an underlying condition (i.e. heart disease, obesity, diabetes, etc.) is the 'primary cause' of death, C-19 is the factor that sped it up.

 

As such, C-19 is the causal effect of the death as the person 'most likely' would be able to survive using the protocols they use to control these factors, if any at all. Those who do not have good control over their underlying health issues, their bodies are a ticking time bomb regardless... which is unfortunate.

 

Maybe the 6% figure is relating to those who have no health conditions which would place them at greater risk for death?

 

In health and bon voyage

Edited by Bo1953
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
 Share

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Welcome to Cruise Critic
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...