CDC Order

[mnocket]

2 hours ago, nocl said:

Keep in mind the context of the study

 

The study at the time found that two-layered cotton cloth masks “were not as effective as surgical masks in a hospital setting 

 

More specifically, the so-called “washing data” was self-reported by health care workers in Vietnam in 2011 who at the time worked in “high-risk wards in a health care setting,”

 

So you are talking about a study concerning cloth masks used in a high virus setting.  To be honest I would not be using cloth masks in that setting at all in the first place.

 

If you are wearing a cloth mask in a high virus setting or an area that is likely to have virus present such as an indoor location with lots of people around then certainly you should wash the mask after words.  Of course most of us are not wearing our masks in such settings.  Usually in areas with occasional contact with others and pretty low chance of encountering someone with the virus.  As such the odds of the mask getting contaminated day to day is pretty low.

 

If you have been in an area where you think there was potential exposure then wash your mask as soon as possible.  But just going around to the grocery store or other low contact activities probably not needed day to day.  

Are you overlooking the bottom line or do you dispute that frequent washing of cloth face masks is important for them to be effective?

[nocl]

24 minutes ago, mnocket said:

Are you overlooking the bottom line or do you dispute that frequent washing of cloth face masks is important for them to be effective?

In a medical environment where one would expect to encounter large amounts of virus - yes.

 

As most of us are using them, with low probability of virus exposure and if that occurs mostly incidental - not really necessary.

Washing it certainly doesn't hurt.  If I went through an air port or spent time on a plane or if I passed in close range of more than a few people I might wash my mask at the end of the day. But most of the time where I will only pass by a few people in local establishments not necessary.

 

environment and context is everything.

 

I do run my disposable masks through a vaporized hydrogen peroxide sanitizing process after about 3 or 4 days use (run the process about every 2 weeks). Rotating through 5 different masks.

Edited October 13, 2020 by nocl

[cruzsnooze]

Sunshine does not kill covid and UV needs to be specific as per this huffington post article

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry/face-masks-sunlight-uv-light_ca_5ec8094dc5b65e38fff2992d

[Steelers36]

6 hours ago, stevenr597 said:

...and people can say that about MSNBC or CNN. 

You can say that again... and again.. and again.

[Steelers36]

On 10/12/2020 at 3:47 PM, nocl said:

No I certainly do not agree with your rather inane characterization of what I stated.

 

Recommendations change as the knowledge of the illness change.

 

 

Considering 1. that the vaccine only benefits those that will take it.  2. the virus might mutate and render the vaccine useless 3. the vaccine might not prevent infection, only prevent symptoms from developing  

 than yes masks very likely can be more important that the vaccine, if everyone would wear them.  A vaccine by itself does not eliminate the need to wear masks.  On the other hand several countries have demonstrated the ability to limit the virus effectively by using masks and social distancing without a vaccine being available.

 

Based upon on that masks could be considered to be more important

 

I understand why masks have been recommended during the coronavirus pandemic and why many jurisdictions have adopted rules and regulations (laws even) concerning wearing them in certain situations. 

 

You stated "A vaccine by itself does not eliminate the need to wear masks".  We have had flu vaccine's for years (since the 1940's).  But we don't have people wearing masks to prevent the spread of influenza, even though the vaccines do not achieve a high efficacy rate.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

I understand why masks have been recommended during the coronavirus pandemic and why many jurisdictions have adopted rules and regulations (laws even) concerning wearing them in certain situations. 

 

You stated "A vaccine by itself does not eliminate the need to wear masks".  We have had flu vaccine's for years (since the 1940's).  But we don't have people wearing masks to prevent the spread of influenza, even though the vaccines do not achieve a high efficacy rate.

As has been said repeatedly Covid19 is not influenza for all that some people want it to be.

[Steelers36]

3 minutes ago, nocl said:

As has been said repeatedly Covid19 is not influenza for all that some people want it to be.

Was not my point.  Both are respiratory infections and transmissions occur via similar means.  But I gather you were thinking of the difference in life impact due to higher death rates with COVID-19.

[nocl]

28 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Was not my point.  Both are respiratory infections and transmissions occur via similar means.  But I gather you were thinking of the difference in life impact due to higher death rates with COVID-19.

as well as the other effects that are occurring with covid19 but not influenza. including the long term symptoms that some experience as well the clotting, strokes, cardiac impacts, neurological symptoms including memory loss.

 

A most troubling illness even without the mortality rate. 

 

To be honest the mortality rate doesn't worry me as much as the neurological impacts being reported. You have a fair number of cases of people with fairly minor cases showing impacts that are limiting their ability to function normally months after the illness occured. 

 

I suspect that long term impacts on health will be substantial.

 

The goal is to reduce new cases, masks and vaccines are tools to do that.

 

With the flu there is a normal season, but we know it will vanish in the spring. You could consider it to be self limiting.

 

With Covid we have seen that it is active right through the summer without the seasonal aspect.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by nocl

[caribill]

2 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

 

You stated "A vaccine by itself does not eliminate the need to wear masks".  We have had flu vaccine's for years (since the 1940's).  But we don't have people wearing masks to prevent the spread of influenza, even though the vaccines do not achieve a high efficacy rate.

 

Australia found out this past flu season that cases were way down from normal. Explanation was that all the mask wearing to prevent transmission of the corona virus also helped prevent the spreading of the flu.

[HappyInVan]

6 hours ago, Steelers36 said:

You stated "A vaccine by itself does not eliminate the need to wear masks".  We have had flu vaccine's for years (since the 1940's).  But we don't have people wearing masks to prevent the spread of influenza, even though the vaccines do not achieve a high efficacy rate.

 

Have you had covid19?

 

“In a soon-to-be-published survey of 3,930 members of Survivor Corps, a group of people who have connected to discuss life after COVID, more than half reported difficulty concentrating or focusing, said Natalie Lambert, an associate research professor at Indiana University School of Medicine, who helped lead the study. It was the fourth most common symptom out of the 101 long-term and short-term physical, neurological and psychological conditions that survivors reported. Memory problems, dizziness or confusion were reported by one-third or more respondents.”

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/feel-dementia-brain-fog-plagues-115613501.html

 

 

[Steelers36]

6 hours ago, nocl said:

as well as the other effects that are occurring with covid19 but not influenza. including the long term symptoms that some experience as well the clotting, strokes, cardiac impacts, neurological symptoms including memory loss.

 

A most troubling illness even without the mortality rate. 

 

To be honest the mortality rate doesn't worry me as much as the neurological impacts being reported. You have a fair number of cases of people with fairly minor cases showing impacts that are limiting their ability to function normally months after the illness occured. 

 

I suspect that long term impacts on health will be substantial.

 

The goal is to reduce new cases, masks and vaccines are tools to do that.

 

With the flu there is a normal season, but we know it will vanish in the spring. You could consider it to be self limiting.

 

With Covid we have seen that it is active right through the summer without the seasonal aspect.

 

 

No MD here, but  I wonder if there is any connection between the neurological impacts and reduced oxygen transmission in the lungs with COVID-19.

[stevenr597]

42 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

No MD here, but  I wonder if there is any connection between the neurological impacts and reduced oxygen transmission in the lungs with COVID-19.

Interesting question. 

But I believe that the individuals who have low O2 saturations (low oxygen levels) actually do fairly well, with most of them not needing to be put on a respiratory, but rather being treated with high oxygen flow rates and positive end expiratory pressure.  They are called "Happy Hypoxics"

With that being said, I do feel that the organ, including neurological impairment we see may be secondary to an autoimmune reaction which is characteristic of this disease.  It is called the Cytokine Cascade.  

In addition, some of the impairment may be secondary to a form of PTSD.  

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Steelers36 said:

No MD here, but  I wonder if there is any connection between the neurological impacts and reduced oxygen transmission in the lungs with COVID-19.

from the literature I have read and from talking with some of my previous co-workers probably not. Because it happens in cases where symptoms are mild and the lungs are not compromised.

 

More likely due to inflammatory response in some way. The loss of taste and smell symptom would also seem to demonstrate its ability to effect the nervous system.

 

However at this time the exact mechanism is uncertain, as are many other things about the virus.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by nocl

[cruzsnooze]

1 hour ago, stevenr597 said:

Interesting question. 

But I believe that the individuals who have low O2 saturations (low oxygen levels) actually do fairly well, with most of them not needing to be put on a respiratory, but rather being treated with high oxygen flow rates and positive end expiratory pressure.  They are called "Happy Hypoxics"

  

Not possible for patients with emphysema and copd and other lung diseases. 

[richsea]

18 hours ago, nocl said:

 

I do run my disposable masks through a vaporized hydrogen peroxide sanitizing process after about 3 or 4 days use (run the process about every 2 weeks). Rotating through 5 different masks.

Can you elaborate on that procedure? Thanks.

[stevenr597]

3 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

Not possible for patients with emphysema and copd and other lung diseases. 

We are talking about a select type of patient suffering from COVID-19.  Certainly is there are contraindications this type of therapy should not be used. 

[nocl]

2 hours ago, richsea said:

Can you elaborate on that procedure? Thanks.

it is a process that Battelle developed to sanitize n95 masks during the shortage. basically you put the masks into a chamber and then pump vaporized hydrogen per oxide into the chamber. 

 

in my case I built a air tight chamber with a vaporizer in it, hang the masks in it,  use a timer for running the vaporizer, on 15 minutes,  each hour for 4 hours.

 

Tested it by placing intentionally contaminated masks (limited to bacterial contamination, do not have any effective way to test virus contamination) run it through a cycle and then see if I could get anything to grow in a culture using nutrient agar. Figuring that if it killed the bacteria and since battles tests indicated that the hydrogen per oxide would kill the virus that by demonstrating my method had good coverage of the masks, that it be fine for covid as well. atleast for non medical home use.

[richsea]

Thanks nocl. Since I’m retired and not subject to much exposure, & don’t use many masks, I think I’ll just dispose of my disposable masks.

[cruzsnooze]

On 10/14/2020 at 1:44 PM, nocl said:

it is a process that Battelle developed to sanitize n95 masks during the shortage. basically you put the masks into a chamber and then pump vaporized hydrogen per oxide into the chamber. 

 

in my case I built a air tight chamber with a vaporizer in it, hang the masks in it,  use a timer for running the vaporizer, on 15 minutes,  each hour for 4 hours.

 

Tested it by placing intentionally contaminated masks (limited to bacterial contamination, do not have any effective way to test virus contamination) run it through a cycle and then see if I could get anything to grow in a culture using nutrient agar. Figuring that if it killed the bacteria and since battles tests indicated that the hydrogen per oxide would kill the virus that by demonstrating my method had good coverage of the masks, that it be fine for covid as well. atleast for non medical home use.

Have you researched if the process destroys the fibers that block the virus from getting through. Also Virus' are smaller than bacteria so a test for bacteria doesn't mean a smaller particle can't penetrate. I only suggest you do a little more digging, something to think about. 

[PurpleHays]

As an RN with 30+ years of operating room experience, masks should be disposed of after one use if disposable. If fabric (or any other reusable substance), they should be worn once and washed/cleaned.  Masks don't prevent the spread of disease or prevent you from catching one, but decrease the chances. And, to be effective, they must cover your nose *and* your mouth.

 

(hops off mask soap box).

 

Seriously folks, just wear a mask and social distance. It's a relatively simple thing to do until scientists figure out what to do with this changing virus. 🙂

[nocl]

2 hours ago, cruzsnooze said:

Have you researched if the process destroys the fibers that block the virus from getting through. Also Virus' are smaller than bacteria so a test for bacteria doesn't mean a smaller particle can't penetrate. I only suggest you do a little more digging, something to think about. 

it is basically the same process used by battelle which did go through full approval.

 

the test using bacteria had nothing to do with penetration  it was strictly use to check that the vaporization was sufficient to cover all mask surfaces.

 

as far as deteriation, of mask fibers I use it for a max of 10 cleanings. That should not be a problem from what I have found.

 

Battelle has done more cleanings with a number of types while it was being tested.

 

it was primarily just a little project to see if I could duplicate at home what the battelle systems does for hospitals.

 

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by nocl

[cruzsnooze]

3 hours ago, nocl said:

it is basically the same process used by battelle which did go through full approval.

 

the test using bacteria had nothing to do with penetration  it was strictly use to check that the vaporization was sufficient to cover all mask surfaces.

 

as far as deteriation, of mask fibers I use it for a max of 10 cleanings. That should not be a problem from what I have found.

 

Battelle has done more cleanings with a number of types while it was being tested.

 

it was primarily just a little project to see if I could duplicate at home what the battelle systems does for hospitals.

 

 

I've also been reading that sunlight is bad for the N95 masks as it deteriorates the fibers that filter viruses. I use N95's so I've been keeping as informed as possible. Sounds to me that you did your research and are staying as safe as possible. If only everyone would these simple measures maybe we can get through this pandemic quicker.