CDC director overruled on cruise ship ban

[the more ports the better]

Wow, that’s some serious research.  I must be the only person here who has a full time job.
 

FYI, our placebo is “simple saline”  NaCl 0.9%.  Volunteers were not given hypotonic saline which is a much more concentrated saline solution.  We did ask that question and were told that the placebo could not be altered from simple saline.

 

Symptoms are  fairly unmistakeable.  It’s not like a muscle or tendon hurts from the injection and the substance.  It is fine for the first 10 hours or so them progressively gets worse over the next few days.  That‘s exactly what  happens when a viral response is building.  
 

FYI, everytime we go in for a check up, we all poll each other.  We are not supposed to but we all sit around in a room together for 45 min before we can be examined for reactions.  We are all curious so it’s just human nature that we compare notes.  
 

Our trial is 50/50 vaccine/vaccine booster to placebo/placebo.  Coincidentally, we have been nearly 50/50 for having our arms ache for a few days for both vaccine and booster.  Many arm ache people also felt flu like symptoms and were very tired the next few days where non sore arm people had neither.  It would be really coincidental if most everyone with sore arms happened to get the flu the next day. 

 

One guy who did not have a sore arm or flu symptoms was sure he had the vaccine because he said he had crazy dreams that night.  Didn’t sound logical but I guess you never know.
 

Once again, I am beyond amazed at the lengths that people will go to be negative and disprove any sort of good news on the vaccine front.  It’s like they want to be miserable.  I bet that everyone on this forum had a small pox vaccine, no questions asked. Who had Shingrex, hepatitis, diphtheria.....  How did the COVID vaccine get such a bad wrap when it has the largest worldwide vaccine development effort in history behind it.
 

Everyone on this forum loves cruising.  We should all be COVID vaccine cheerleaders so we can get back to our traveling lives.  The attempts to discredit the vaccine here are astounding,  ie: can’t trust J&J, they had a baby powder issue, although, if you need a heart catheter, J&J would be your first choice.  Or..... can’t trust Pfizer, they are funding their own research, yet I bet that person reaches for Advil several times per week, or maybe a Z pack when ill, or ooohhhlala ***** to spice up particularly boring COVID day.

 

Lets all BE POSITIVE!!!!!!!!!

[the more ports the better]

Wow, the algorithm here struck my reference to the drug viag***.  If feel like a child who tried to say a dirty word!

[tvmovielover]

1 hour ago, the more ports the better said:

Wow, the algorithm here struck my reference to the drug viag***.  If feel like a child who tried to say a dirty word!

the more ports the better:  I just finally broke down and made a new password so I could get back in on the discussions and embarass myself some more.  I just want to say I have enjoyed your posts about the vaccine trials.  I hope they are all successful.  Keep updating on your experience.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, the more ports the better said:

Once again, I am beyond amazed at the lengths that people will go to be negative and disprove any sort of good news on the vaccine front.

I can't find one word on this thread that's negative or disproving of good news on the vaccine front. Good news at this stage will mean there's been a successful trial and the CDC approves a vaccine.That hasn't happened yet. At this stage all we can do is hope it will.

 

Even assuming you're correct in your assertion that you've received the vaccine unless what you've received is proven safe and effective it won't be of much use to your health or anyone else's.

 

1 hour ago, the more ports the better said:

Wow, that’s some serious research.  I must be the only person here who has a full time job.

I'm retired so I have time, but in any event it took less than a minute to find the papers and article I cited, something I could just as easily done if I were working.

 

1 hour ago, the more ports the better said:

 

FYI, everytime we go in for a check up, we all poll each other.  We are not supposed to but we all sit around in a room together for 45 min before we can be examined for reactions

 Wonderful...that really helps the credibility a double blind trail... . 

 

FYI...normal saline also causes reactions:

https://www.rxlist.com/normal-saline-side-effects-drug-center.htm

 

"What Are Side Effects of Normal Saline?

Common side effects of Normal Saline include:

fever,

injection site swelling,

redness, or

infection.

Contact your doctor if you experience serious side effects of Normal Saline including:

fast heartbeat,

fever,

rash,

joint pain, or

shortness of breath."

Edited October 2, 2020 by njhorseman

[hamrag]

2 hours ago, ORV said:

Well there's hope in the air that they will sail after 10/31. 

 

I agree, it is highly likely they will sail after 10/31....the question is will it be before 2021, personally I do not believe it will be!

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

the CDC approves a vaccine

 I meant to say "the FDA approves a vaccine"

[clo]

4 hours ago, susiesan said:

My husband is currently participating in a vaccine trial for the adenovirus, a respiratory one. There was a 25% chance he would get the placebo. After he got the shot he was mildly sick for a few days with a slight fever, chills, muscle aches. So he knows he got the vaccine. This study was comparing dosage levels, he does not know what dose he got.

I'm sincerely unclear how this relates to what I wrote about schools and cruise ships.

[alaskaca]

40 minutes ago, clo said:

I'm sincerely unclear how this relates to what I wrote about schools and cruise ships.

No disrespect, but it may be that a number of CC posters have blocked your posts and are unaware of of what you post. 

[clo]

1 minute ago, alaskaca said:

No disrespect, but it may be that a number of CC posters have blocked your posts and are unaware of of what you post. 

It was a reply to ME.

[WpgCruise]

On 10/1/2020 at 12:38 PM, tennis said:

If you do decide to cruise then you should be responsible for any of the outcomes. If you are not comfortable with any possible negative outcomes then don’t cruise.  But why someone would insist that adults who want to cruise and will be responsible for themselves should be prevented from cruising sounds like life when I lived in the Soviet Union.  No one is insisting that anyone else take a cruise.

 

(Bolding Mine)

And here lies the problem.  If you want to assume the risk, I agree, that's on you.  Where I have a concern is if you become infected, the consequences are not yours alone.  You now pass the risk to those you potentially infect before your diagnosis. You pass the risk if you don't properly isolate.  You also take resources from the health care system. and these health care resource requirements could be significant and long term. 

 

It isn't all about a single person, it's about all of us together. The question should be what can we do to make this better for everyone.

[Jancruz]

remember it will take 90 days to get ships ready to sail after October 31 and probably will be one from each line..

Jancruz1

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, WpgCruise said:

And here lies the problem.  If you want to assume the risk, I agree, that's on you.  Where I have a concern is if you become infected, the consequences are not yours alone.  You now pass the risk to those you potentially infect before your diagnosis. You pass the risk if you don't properly isolate.  You also take resources from the health care system. and these health care resource requirements could be significant and long term. 

Agree.

It’s like drinking and smoking.

If you do both at home only, you are risking only your health. If, on the other hand, you drink & drive or smoke in public places you are risking the health of others who did not agree to those risks.

[clo]

40 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

remember it will take 90 days to get ships ready to sail after October 31 and probably will be one from each line..

Jancruz1

So why not go ahead and say February?

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Jancruz said:

remember it will take 90 days to get ships ready to sail after October 31 and probably will be one from each line..

Jancruz1

 

1 hour ago, clo said:

So why not go ahead and say February?

 

First, not all the ships are in cold lay up, and if I recall correctly the 90 days timeline was for the cold layup ships.  For example Nautica, Marina, Riviera and Sirena all are in Italy and have been on the move regularly. The ships not in cold layup should be able to be back in service sooner. 

 

Second, why would one wait until October 31 to start the clock and get the necessary work under way? Couldn't the preparatory work begin now, since at least for US cruises it appears that ships will potentially be able to sail on Nov 1?

 

Third...and most important...if what you're saying is true, then NCLH has an obligation to immediately cancel all cruises scheduled to sail prior to February 1 and begin the process of issuing refunds or FCCs , depending on passengers' preference. Failure to do so would not be a shining example of corporate ethics, to put it mildly.

Edited October 3, 2020 by njhorseman

[nikless]

6 hours ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

First, not all the ships are in cold lay up, and if I recall correctly the 90 days timeline was for the cold layup ships.  For example Nautica, Marina, Riviera and Sirena all are in Italy and have been on the move regularly. The ships not in cold layup should be able to be back in service sooner. 

 

Second, why would one wait until October 31 to start the clock and get the necessary work under way? Couldn't the preparatory work begin now, since at least for US cruises it appears that ships will potentially be able to sail on Nov 1?

 

Third...and most important...if what you're saying is true, then NCLH has an obligation to immediately cancel all cruises scheduled to sail prior to February 1 and begin the process of issuing refunds or FCCs , depending on passengers' preference. Failure to do so would not be a shining example of corporate ethics, to put it mildly.

We are booked on the first Riviera cruise, once they start sailing, on Nov 13, to the Caribbean.  Given that the islands are currently closed to cruise ships, I assume Oceania is holding off any announcements until they sort out those logistics- itinerary-wise.  

Additionally, they had changed the last stop to Nassau which recently came out with rules requiring a travel Visa that includes a negative test within 5 days of arrival, something Oceania needs to work out (wasn't expecting to disembark there anyway..).  

The cruise is scheduled for 10 days but if they would follow their proposal for re-start, the recommendation of no longer than 10 days duration with less ports and including private ports/islands, needs to be planned.  Alternatively, a shorter cruise with downtime at a port before the next cruise is possible.

I am sure they are actively planning for these contingencies.

 

[pinotlover]

12 hours ago, Jancruz said:

remember it will take 90 days to get ships ready to sail after October 31 and probably will be one from each line..

Jancruz1

Notwithstanding NJhorseman’s excellent rebuttal of why it shouldn’t be, I am assuming Jancruz’s statement essentially came from the Boss. Cruising on NCHL ships won’t resume until ~ February 1, and then only one ship per line. How lucky do you feel that one ship will be yours?

 

This announcement cancels two of my upcoming cruises. One of those cruises is paid in full along with shore tours. The other is only deposited now with final payment due at month end. I will probably have to wait for Oceania to officially cancel the November cruise as I want a total cash refund ,not a FCC. I will explore my options on getting my refund back for our January 28th cruise ASAP.

[nikless]

Who specifically is "the Boss"?

And what official announcement was made?

[Paulchili]

9 minutes ago, nikless said:

Who specifically is "the Boss"?

Bruce Springsteen, of course 😀

[nikless]

1 minute ago, Paulchili said:

Bruce Springsteen, of course 😀

Well then, that settles it.  

I'm in love with a Jersey girl ... who wants to cruise...and not dance in the dark...

[RJB]

1 hour ago, nikless said:

Who specifically is "the Boss"?

And what official announcement was made?

I assume it is FDR. And Jan seems to know a lot.  Also right just about all the time about what is going on at O. 

[njhorseman]

3 hours ago, pinotlover said:

I am assuming Jancruz’s statement essentially came from the Boss

But the point is that the Boss' response was to a question about ships in cold/cool layup, and all NCLH ships are not in that layup as one can tell by observing they're moving periodically.

 

3 hours ago, pinotlover said:

then only one ship per line

That the restart would  be gradual with just  a few ships initially is not new information. 

[pinotlover]

6 hours ago, nikless said:

We are booked on the first Riviera cruise, once they start sailing, on Nov 13, to the Caribbean.  Given that the islands are currently closed to cruise ships, I assume Oceania is holding off any announcements until they sort out those logistics- itinerary-wise.  

Additionally, they had changed the last stop to Nassau which recently came out with rules requiring a travel Visa that includes a negative test within 5 days of arrival, something Oceania needs to work out (wasn't expecting to disembark there anyway..).  

The cruise is scheduled for 10 days but if they would follow their proposal for re-start, the recommendation of no longer than 10 days duration with less ports and including private ports/islands, needs to be planned.  Alternatively, a shorter cruise with downtime at a port before the next cruise is possible.

I am sure they are actively planning for these contingencies.

 

Since you are approaching 30 days until you sail, it would be interesting to know if you have received your “ blue” book yet? If so, what is your assigned boarding time and did they specify exactly what you need at check in and what the procedure will be?

 

We are now at 45 days until supposed sailing. If the infamous blue book doesn’t arrive soon, I will take it they have canceled the cruise regardless of any official announcement. 

 

 

[Tranquility Base]

23 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

and what the procedure will be?

Has any cruise line which hopes to cruise out of Florida this year released ANY  approved policy regarding Covid protocols which would allow them to sail ?

 

One big example: what is the actual procedure that is to be followed if a Covid case is confirmed onboard ?

Both for the infected person and their repatriation, and for other passengers & crew ?

[nikless]

37 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Since you are approaching 30 days until you sail, it would be interesting to know if you have received your “ blue” book yet? If so, what is your assigned boarding time and did they specify exactly what you need at check in and what the procedure will be?

 

We are now at 45 days until supposed sailing. If the infamous blue book doesn’t arrive soon, I will take it they have canceled the cruise regardless of any official announcement. 

 

 

Not yet.  And I keep wanting to call my agent at O but know that all she can advise is the company line.

We do have a TA booked for next November on Riviera, so not concerned about the fare...unless they decide to declare bankruptcy if sailings don't happen in the near future.

 

Are you on the Nov 23 sailing?  We were going to book that one but decided to stay home for Thanksgiving this year.

 

Also booked a NYC- Bermuda for July as a backup in case the river cruise we have booked for June doesn't happen.  Payment on that is due Dec 24 and it's a big lump....6 months out, there's not telling what the EU is going to allow.

[nikless]

14 minutes ago, Tranquility Base said:

Has any cruise line which hopes to cruise out of Florida this year released ANY  approved policy regarding Covid protocols which would allow them to sail ?

 

One big example: what is the actual procedure that is to be followed if a Covid case is confirmed onboard ?

Both for the infected person and their repatriation, and for other passengers & crew ?

Approved?  Not aware of anything besides the recommendations submitted to CDC, who if rumors about their being overruled are correct, obviously are not comfortable with resumption before 2021.

 

I am also curious about someone who tests positive 2-3 days after getting off the ship.  Will contact tracing reach back to passengers?

Florida doesn't require any quarantine upon entry into the state at this point, not sure what they will do once cruise lines start back up.  Or will it be regulated at the federal level?