Is small beautiful?

[RadioRat]

First off, I've never cruised. I did do a Cunard ship visit once, but have never lived the dream like so many of you.

 

Now I'm thinking I should dip my toe. Fred Olsen is on my shortlist because they have regular sailings from the UK and because they don't use floating theme parks. However I can't seem to find anywhere that properly details the benefits of choosing them over other lines.

 

Also, the 'Fred' community on here appear to be a bit more lively than what I'm seeing on the Fred Olsen website. Is their website a good representation of what to expect?

 

I'm 55 year old, keen on photography and love exploring new places for the sights, tastes and people.

 

Thanks in advance for your responses.

[Britboys]

Gosh. One short question with many different answers/replies. There are now so many different cruise lines offering very different styles. If you want to cruise out of Dover, then obviously your options are more limited.

Fred is generally known for offering a more traditional style of cruising, on smaller ships, with a generally 'mature' passenger base.

From the interests you have listed, they would probably fit well with Fred Olsen. Their itineraries to date have usually been more varied than the large cruise lines operating larger ships, meaning interesting destination ports, ideal for photography and exploration.

It might be helpful for us to know what your hopes or expectations around relaxing on board are. Most evenings are spent on board as well as a number of days at sea.

Although I have previously sailed with Fred, it has been a few years although I am booked for a cruise next June 🤞🏻. If other posters are aware of maybe what type of music you enjoy, what sort of films you watch, the type of food you find tasty etc, they may be able to be more helpful with their replies.

It's also worth noting that Fred's two new ships are significantly larger than the two they are replacing and I am sure there will be some 'evolution' of the on-board product.

[tring]

2 hours ago, RadioRat said:

First off, I've never cruised. I did do a Cunard ship visit once, but have never lived the dream like so many of you.

 

Now I'm thinking I should dip my toe. Fred Olsen is on my shortlist because they have regular sailings from the UK and because they don't use floating theme parks. However I can't seem to find anywhere that properly details the benefits of choosing them over other lines.

 

Also, the 'Fred' community on here appear to be a bit more lively than what I'm seeing on the Fred Olsen website. Is their website a good representation of what to expect?

 

I'm 55 year old, keen on photography and love exploring new places for the sights, tastes and people.

 

Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

As someone who has not sailed on any ship it is very difficult to say anything as there is so much to say.  I suggest the best thing you do is spend time reading about cruising in general and also specific cruise lines.  P&O also do a lot of cruises from the UK, but are generally on bigger ships, but are also cheaper and will have a younger age group on average.  You would be to the lower end of Fred passengers and I think the main difference you will find is that the atmosphere tends to be a bit calmer and more of traditional style, which I would generally describe as more refined, though depends on the cruise.  Fred people can be a tad more adventurous, so although older on average I would not say staid in any way.  We started cruising at your age and have always preferred the smaller ships for the ambiance and destinations.  With Fred you are more likely to find space on deck on a sea day, whilst we have found it very difficult to find a sun bed on P&O ships and also the beds are placed very near to each other, so you sort of need to crawl on them from the foot, though presumably that will not be the case whilst COVID restrictions are in place.  The floating theme parks are more the bigger US brands, though some are reported to be good quality, e.g. Holland America, Princess and Cunard also has a $ spend.  The UK lines do tend to have lower prices for drinks, excursions etc., which can make a big difference.

 

You need to read the blurb on relevant cruise line websites and decide what you want, sometimes there is only the choice of fixed evening dining times, when you may not be able to secure a table for two and has previously been the case with Fred.  Fred's new ships have a flexible dining option as well, so you can go in when you want (though there may be a wait at busy times, which is usually around  7pm.  All ships have self service restaurants which you can acces as you wish, though stay open longer on the bigger ships.  Speciality restaurants are pay extra ones that can be booked for when you want.  With that basic info. best to then search of this site will give lots of threads about differences between different cruise lines and also the different ships, which can vary a fair bit on P&O, some being adult only and others family friendly - so not the place to be in schools hols.  In general you will find prices are lower on the larger, family friendly ships.  It has been traditional for a high level of tips to be expected on cruise ships and the staff have very low pay levels, so something else to take into account as some cruise lines/cruises include tips.

 

Regards your photographic and exploration wishes, there is a lot to be said for Fred as they visit more unusual ports, yet many of the other lines go to the same places repeatedly, which can be overrun by cruise passengers if a few big ships are in port, but if you have not cruised before they could be new places to you and, with some prior research, you can probably find a way to get out of the worst crowds by heading a short distance away - make sure you are back though or the ship will leave without you.  This is a good website that can be searched for ports/ships and give you an idea if a port is likely to be busy  https://www.whatsinport.com/

 

An approximately one week Norweigian Fjiord cruise, or one to Belgium/France/Holland could be a good start with any cruise line.  The the main difference in itinerary with Fred vs. other cruise lines is that they tend to do more scenic cruising and/or more sailing a bit up a river.  If you go further up the coast of Norway his smaller ships go up the inside passage (not sure about the new ships though), so some sea days become scenic cruising in more sheltered waters, rather than out at sea.  You will sea some some scenery areas on any Fjord cruise though.  Choosing a cabin can also be tricky - if possible many people would suggest mid ship for stability and would look for cabins above, cabins below and also to either side, or at least check what public areas are around the cabin, as can be noise transmitted from late night venues and a gym, prom deck or pool deck above often means that can hear noise from movement of chairs/sunbeds or joggers etc.  Personally I would go for the cruise and not be too bothered about cabin for a first cruise as most people spend little time there.  Depends on your means and preferences though as some people just do not want inside cabins.  Beware of very short cruises, e.g. mini cruises of say 2-3 nights, as tend to be party cruises, so will have a very different atmosphere to other cruises and not a good trial at all.  Can be fun if you fancy a short break and time to use the disco with a party atmosphere though and TBH we quite like them for that reason.

 

Plenty of research to do on that lot - happy searching.  

Edited October 5, 2020 by tring

[RadioRat]

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your response. 

I'd probably be looking for a cruise where most days were in a port of some kind with overnight sailing.
Music: Definitely not ballroom dancing (that frightens me!). I'm a BBC 6 Music listener, loving the new with the old.

Films: Bladerunner, Get Carter, Long Good Friday

Relaxing on board: mostly finding like minded souls for good conversation about travel, culture and politics.

 

You said you've not sailed with Fred Olsen for a while but hopefully will next summer. What tempted you back?

 

Chris

 

[RadioRat]

@tring That's a very comprehensive response. Thanks. There are things in there that I hadn't considered, such as fighting for a sun bed. Also, you do a god job in conveying the complexities of making decisions over what to book. 

 

The thing about arriving in port with thousands of others leads back to my "is small beautiful?" question and I wondered about other benefits.

 

I have done a fair bit of research on and off. I suppose I was just seeing one thing on the Fred Olsen website and a different perspective (more lively) on forums like this.

 

Sounds like I want a small ship but with a lively crowd of fellow guests.

[tring]

3 hours ago, RadioRat said:

@tring That's a very comprehensive response. Thanks. There are things in there that I hadn't considered, such as fighting for a sun bed. Also, you do a god job in conveying the complexities of making decisions over what to book. 

 

The thing about arriving in port with thousands of others leads back to my "is small beautiful?" question and I wondered about other benefits.

 

I have done a fair bit of research on and off. I suppose I was just seeing one thing on the Fred Olsen website and a different perspective (more lively) on forums like this.

 

Sounds like I want a small ship but with a lively crowd of fellow guests.

 

I do not understand by what you saw on the Fred website, as it seems to be just a description of what their ships are like - perhaps you could elaborate on your thoughts there.  Fred and a number of other cruise lines do have some ballroom dancing, but is becoming a lot less popular and talking to a couple of dance hosts last winter, they had the feeling it was on its way out, though the dance classes on sea days can be quite popular.

 

If you are looking for somewhere that is buzzing in the early hours, then Fred not for you as many people will just watch the show after dinner, then return to their cabins, perhaps after another drink and/or doing the quizz.  There is always a late night venue though, for a disco after about midnight and is also a more lively location earlier in the evening.  That is the Lido Lounge on Balmoral, or the Coral Club on Braemar and is were you will find us - we are 70.  If, as I expect, you are thinking more about personality, I would not consider Fred passengers in any way staid, narrow minded or morose.  In fact the best table companion we have ever had the most laughs with on any cruise, was on a Fred cruise to Spitzbergen about 7 years ago and she was 80.  She also joined us on a disco type dance session during a sail in as her husband had a bad heart.

 

The individual cruises will vary, with fly cruises having generally more active people, along with shorter cruises from the UK, whilst longer cruises from the UK can have a less active clientelle, but I would say that is true of other cruise lines as well.  Personally, we have found that the bigger ships that go to the same places over and over again have less interesting or well travelled people on board.  I am sure you will find plenty of people to have a lively chat with on a Fred ship if that is what you want.  Retired people are often the best company in that respect and they appreciate the company, whereas working age passengers are often there for a chance to just relax and spend time with their travelling companions.

 

We do think the staff and food are much better on Fred than P&O and have not personally bettered it elsewhere.  We have not travelled extensively on other cruise lines though, mainly just when looking for a more unusual destination, but found all of them very enjoyable because of the destinations.  I cannot comment much on other cruise lines for that reason and our favourite line sadly went bust a few years back, so not an option now.

 

We did try one of the big MSC ships from Hamburg to Southampton via Le Havre a couple of years back as it was very cheap, but it was very overpowering and brash (chaotic may be a better word), but as something to provide transport home after a few days in Hamburg, it was "interesting".  Our thoughts are that any ship of that size needs a balcony cabin as somewhere we could go for a peaceful sit and luckily we had booked that.

 

Just my opinion, but too be fair the vast number of our cruises (and there have been a lot) have been chosen for the destinations, but Fred has done well at providing suitable destinations over the years, so is the line we have cruised on most.

 

My long answers are a consequence of the bad weather, but hope I have been of some help 🙂

 

Cheers,

 

Barbara 

Edited October 5, 2020 by tring

[ovccruiser]

As you can see, Radiorat, a simple question will get very elaborate and long answers. I agree with all said so far, and we have sailed with Fred on a number of occasions going back to 2012. We have also met some great people on Fred cruises, but still my favourite ship in the Fred Olsen fleet is Braemar and Cunard fleet Queen Mary 2. As you can see complete opposites with one at 24000 tonnes gross and the other at 150,000 tonnes, but if you divide the number of tonnes by the number of passengers, QM2 carries only 2691 passengers, QM2 has more tonnes per passenger so should provide more space per pax. That said, my last 5 cruises were all with Fred Olsen, so all is not so cut and dried 😄

[Britboys]

23 hours ago, RadioRat said:

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for your response. 

I'd probably be looking for a cruise where most days were in a port of some kind with overnight sailing.
Music: Definitely not ballroom dancing (that frightens me!). I'm a BBC 6 Music listener, loving the new with the old.

Films: Bladerunner, Get Carter, Long Good Friday

Relaxing on board: mostly finding like minded souls for good conversation about travel, culture and politics.

 

You said you've not sailed with Fred Olsen for a while but hopefully will next summer. What tempted you back?

 

Chris

 

Hi Chris. I was lucky to start cruising in 1995 when I was only in my mid-thirties. Ships were much smaller then than they are now and my early cruises were on classic ocean liners. That gave me the taste for traditional-style cruising and I have never really moved on from that 😂. Sometimes I cruise with a friend and on others solo, since my partner died back in 2012. I generally cruise on ships that carry under 2000 passengers. I have twice sailed on P&O's Azura that takes over 3000 and just found it was too busy and noisy for my taste. It felt very crowded to me.

Most of the smaller ships generally attract a maturer crowd but as Barbara has said, that doesn't mean they are all dull or 'old'. You are however unlikely to find much music to your tastes on a smaller ship but would, I suspect, find plenty of interesting conversation.

Your language, to me, suggests you might be sailing solo? I may well have misread that though. Many of the lines sailing out of the UK offer various opportunities for solo passengers to meet others travelling independently. I have sailed the majority of my solo cruises with P&O, who hold a hosted coffee-meet every morning when at sea and unhosted when in port. They also often group solo travellers together on dinner tables if you choose fixed dining. I believe Fred Olsen and Cunard both offer good opportunities for solo pax to meet. People who prefer to be alone are respected however - there is no pressure to join in with things.

 

You asked what attracted me back to Fred Olsen. Two things really. First, the itineraries and the smaller ship. Secondly, P&O are very much taking their fleet in the direction of the megaship. They only have two ships left in the region of 2000 pax and their new ship just being brought into service takes well over 5000, so definitely not for me. Consequently, I am keen to try Fred again because of the ship size and general on-board style. I will be travelling with my cruise-buddy next June, assuming all is well Covid-wise.

 

For me, the advantages of a small ship are that there is a bigger sense of camaraderie on board and that queues are shorter or non-existent when using the buffet restaurants, tenders when anchored off-shore and embarking/disembarking in ports.

 

Fred Olsen and P&O are both very British. Cunard are much more international, even when sailing out of the UK, particularly popular with North Americans.

 

Please do feel free to carry on asking questions.

 

[RadioRat]

Such comprehensive answers. Most appreciated.
Taking up @Britboys ' suggestion that I keep asking questions, I wondered what specific COVID or post-COVID measures you would look for on future sailings? With your knowledge of life on board Fred Olsen (or other lines) what needs to change or be put in place?

[Britboys]

2 hours ago, RadioRat said:

Such comprehensive answers. Most appreciated.
Taking up @Britboys ' suggestion that I keep asking questions, I wondered what specific COVID or post-COVID measures you would look for on future sailings? With your knowledge of life on board Fred Olsen (or other lines) what needs to change or be put in place?

Bit of a moveable feast at the moment Chris. The suggestion is that there will be more health screening with, as a minimum, a temperature check before embarkation of your cruise and a Covid Test if your temperature is high. There will be more emphasis on using hand gel regularly. Buffet restaurants will not be self-service and like land restaurants at the moment, no condiments on the tables. Passengers may be required to wear masks moving around the ship and there may be a one-way system in operation. Passengers will only be able to eat on a table with their own party and may be required to have set times in the main restaurant and/or book a time at other restaurants, including the buffet. On-board venues may have restrictions on numbers. Passengers may only be allowed off in ports on an officially-booked shore excursion.

 

That's how things look now and I am hoping they have changed by next June when I am due to cruise next. I have no intention of booking a solo cruise until such restrictions are lifted. I would hate to eat alone every night.

 

P.S. Don't know why I have come up as @britboys - I don't have a twitter account in any name...

Edited October 6, 2020 by Britboys
Addition

[electricron]

I’m from Texas, I’ll admit I have never sailed on a Fred Olsen ship under Fred Olsen ownership, but I have sailed on four of their ships when they were known as the Norwegian Dynasty, Norwegian Crown, Rotterdam, and Amsterdam. 
 

Here is something every potential cruise customer should know, (1) the cruise line can replace the ship at any time, (2) the cruise line can change the itinerary at any time, and (3) the cruise line can cancel the cruise at any time.  Choosing a cruise based upon a specific ship, a specific port, or a specific length of time  is a mistake. 

You should pick a cruise based on things that rarely change. Things like daily activities on board, fixed or open seating, dress up nights or not, casinos or not,  kid friendly or not, the general cruise area, etc. 

 

Too many reviews place emphasis on food menus, size of cabins, cruise directors, room stewards, and entertainers; all the things that can change between cruises. Captains, cruise directors, chefs, entertainers, room stewards, in fact every crew member aboard the ship can change between cruises.
 

What is more important is the general atmosphere aboard the ships any cruise line encourages from  its headquarters. How well do they manage you and the ship when things go wrong, like the equipment breaking down, bad weather at sea, bad weather in ports, virus outbreaks aboard the ships, etc. 

 

when looking at reviews here at cruise critic, that is what you should be looking for. 
 

 

[tring]

To echo Britboys regards singles, I am pretty sure that what Fred arranges for singles is very much the same, quite possibly identical, to that described for P&O, though I have not personally sailed as a single.  Fred does do singles offers from time to time, but just on certain cruises and some, possibly all, the single offers are only for certain cabins grades.  Basically I assume they are the cruises which have not sold so well, so the really interesting itineraries do not tend to have singles offers.

 

As far as COVID is concerned it certainly seems like cruises will be very different when they start up and a lot of what I said about it being easy to find someone to speak with could be severely limited.  The only Fred cruise we have booked is next July from our local port of Liverpool, so will be easy to get to the ship, but must admit if the restrictions are still as described, we will likely be looking to cancel or at least delay the cruise, as land Hols will be much more appealing next year.  The main restriction that would be a concern to us is not being able to just go ashore as we please, which is the whole point of us cruising, especially if any "bubble tours" are the sort of thing when you are just trailed around various places being talked at by a guide.  If a "bubble tour" allows is some degree of freedom in certain locations, then it may be acceptable to us.  Mind you I can see why ports may not want to accept cruise passengers wandering around at will and then going on to somewhere else, etc., so potentially spreading germs everywhere.  We are still hoping we can be vaccinated early next year and that makes a big difference to potential restrictions, but will have to wait and see. 

[Britboys]

16 hours ago, electricron said:

...Here is something every potential cruise customer should know, (1) the cruise line can replace the ship at any time, (2) the cruise line can change the itinerary at any time, and (3) the cruise line can cancel the cruise at any time.  Choosing a cruise based upon a specific ship, a specific port, or a specific length of time  is a mistake. 

You should pick a cruise based on things that rarely change. Things like daily activities on board, fixed or open seating, dress up nights or not, casinos or not,  kid friendly or not, the general cruise area, etc. 

 

Too many reviews place emphasis on food menus, size of cabins, cruise directors, room stewards, and entertainers; all the things that can change between cruises. Captains, cruise directors, chefs, entertainers, room stewards, in fact every crew member aboard the ship can change between cruises.
 

What is more important is the general atmosphere aboard the ships any cruise line encourages from  its headquarters. How well do they manage you and the ship when things go wrong, like the equipment breaking down, bad weather at sea, bad weather in ports, virus outbreaks aboard the ships, etc. 

 

when looking at reviews here at cruise critic, that is what you should be looking for. 
 

 

Whilst I agree with you to a certain extent, that doesn't necessarily always apply. I don't know how things have been in the USA but here in the UK, until recently it has been relatively rare to experience a change of ship or significant change to itinerary. Yes, occasionally a ship has been sold and all it's cruises cancelled. It is unlikely that the length of an itinerary would change by more than a day as many cruisers have jobs to get back to.

Many lines' fleet of ships are a similar size and offer a pretty uniform atmosphere/experience on board but some do not. P&O in the UK for instance have ships that carry from fewer than 2000 passengers to more than 5000 and in my experience the atmosphere on board varies enormously. Within the fleet, they also have some child-friendly ships and others that are for adults only.

So, whilst much of your advice holds true, there are line-specific factors to also be taken into account.

[tring]

17 hours ago, electricron said:

I’m from Texas, I’ll admit I have never sailed on a Fred Olsen ship under Fred Olsen ownership, but I have sailed on four of their ships when they were known as the Norwegian Dynasty, Norwegian Crown, Rotterdam, and Amsterdam. 
 

Here is something every potential cruise customer should know, (1) the cruise line can replace the ship at any time, (2) the cruise line can change the itinerary at any time, and (3) the cruise line can cancel the cruise at any time.  Choosing a cruise based upon a specific ship, a specific port, or a specific length of time  is a mistake. 

You should pick a cruise based on things that rarely change. Things like daily activities on board, fixed or open seating, dress up nights or not, casinos or not,  kid friendly or not, the general cruise area, etc. 

 

Too many reviews place emphasis on food menus, size of cabins, cruise directors, room stewards, and entertainers; all the things that can change between cruises. Captains, cruise directors, chefs, entertainers, room stewards, in fact every crew member aboard the ship can change between cruises.
 

What is more important is the general atmosphere aboard the ships any cruise line encourages from  its headquarters. How well do they manage you and the ship when things go wrong, like the equipment breaking down, bad weather at sea, bad weather in ports, virus outbreaks aboard the ships, etc. 

 

when looking at reviews here at cruise critic, that is what you should be looking for. 
 

 

 

You make valid points and particularly interesting that you have been on all four of Fred's ships, albeit before Balmoral and Braemar were stretched to add more cabins.  You must be a very experience cruiser.

 

Yes some things can change and I have no idea what legal rights the US cruise companies have in the States, but I feel it worth adding that there are legal rights in Britain, so any change that is "not insignificant" cannot be made unilaterally by a cruise company.  Some do write their T&C's to try to imply that they can do more than would be legal, but in fact T&C's can never override legal rights, so such terms mean nothing.  If a customer does not agree to other changes, they would be entitled to a full refund (and in some case also compensation), though TBH I suggest most people would be happy enough to accept a compromise, (such as a change to another cruise or a sweetener of some kind), rather than get into a big tassle over it.  Eventually, Fred did seem to come to personal agreements with individuals I have seen reports from over the recent change of ships and in some cases itinerary.  That was a good way forward as everyone has different preferences.

 

Some ports can change, so a company may well be able to legally change perhaps up to 25% of ports if similar ones, and there is always the chance a port or two cannot be arrived at after embarkation for various reasons e.g. weather, safety/political reasons, or mechanical failure of ship and in these days of course COVID, and those changes are often unavoidable.  For a change of ship to be legally enforced it would have to be a similar ship, rather than the changes made recently.

 

It is very true members of staff are all different, though in our experience we have found staff to be more reliably good on some cruise lines than others (and vice versa),  which I think probably comes under your admirably comment about the general atmosphere encouraged by the company.  We have been on what is now Azamara Pursuit in three different guises with different cruise lines and will not go into full details, but it was very different with Swan Hellenic's Minerva II  which was by far our favourite,  Azamara being quite acceptable, but P&O's Adonia being a definitely not to go there again experience, with fixed time/table companion dining, no self service alternative on most nights and various activities etc. taking place in many parts of the ship at different times, so there was rarely anywhere that we could sit peacefully for a length of time.  Indeed our main memory of that Adonia cruise was picking up our drinks as some event was about to take place (e.g. quizz or perhaps game show type of thing) and wandering around the ship looking for somewhere else to sit and chat.  The bigger P&O ships offer those sort of things in specific venues and whist Fred does do those sort of things, there are also other bars that are available with just background music etc.   

Edited October 7, 2020 by tring