Great Article on how Costa Cruises have Re-opened

[doncarlos]

Once one gets used to a certain " life " on board it is hard to change the routine . Hopefully , these new regs will mellow over a year or two . In the interim  we will pass particularly due to the no " do your own " in port. I note we are not alone in that line of thinking !!!!

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Absolutely, at least for some period of time.  I am willing to compromise on some things in the short term but the current list is too extensive.  The absolute deal breaker for us is only allowing disembarkation in ports with ships tours.  As long as that is in effect we will not cruise.

Agree 100%

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, doncarlos said:

Once one gets used to a certain " life " on board it is hard to change the routine . Hopefully , these new regs will mellow over a year or two . In the interim  we will pass particularly due to the no " do your own " in port. I note we are not alone in that line of thinking !!!!

I would fear that unless many potential passengers make it clear that if the only way to get off the ship in a port is the cruise line's excursion, the idea of a cruise is a non-starter, this policy will become permanent as they will see it as a nice profit producer.

[doncarlos]

9 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

I would fear that unless many potential passengers make it clear that if the only way to get off the ship in a port is the cruise line's excursion, the idea of a cruise is a non-starter, this policy will become permanent as they will see it as a nice profit producer.

I share your fear that is why I am looking at higher end, all inclusive companies with smaller ships who are not intense on developing on board revenue such as shore ex . . I suspect if local authorities concur , some of those outfits will not restrict my movement .

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I would fear that unless many potential passengers make it clear that if the only way to get off the ship in a port is the cruise line's excursion, the idea of a cruise is a non-starter, this policy will become permanent as they will see it as a nice profit producer.

I doubt you will see it stick as a policy.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I would fear that unless many potential passengers make it clear that if the only way to get off the ship in a port is the cruise line's excursion, the idea of a cruise is a non-starter, this policy will become permanent as they will see it as a nice profit producer.

 

Well, I for one will not cruise if my only choice is to stay on the ship or to a ship’s excursion.  Most excursions don’t do what we want and besides, we like to take a chance to savour the flavour and enjoy time in the port observing.  

It’s just not feasible to me at all.  I have a favourite tapas bar we will go to in Malaga, a guide in Madeira that will take us to place no HAL excursions gone on.  The list is pretty endless.

I’m not interested in driving by highlights and seeing what someone dictates I do and wait for one pile of people to return.

We do the odd ship excursion but sadly, our experience has been they are on a downhill trend.  I have NO interest in being restricted in spots we love on being on a bus or a big group and not being able to do our own thing.

If HAL brings this out as policy, trust me, I’ll use my voice.

I do spend a fair chunk of change on board in other things so it’s not like HAL is being deprived of on board spending. 😉 

[What was that?]

21 hours ago, KirkNC said:

You and I appear to have a different take on what ruins a cruise experience.

If that is what cruising will be for the next ten years, I agree with you. But if my August 2021 Alaska cruise has similar conditions, I'll probably go ahead. We will be celebrating our anniversary with our daughter who will be belatedly celebrating hers, too, so there will be more to the cruise than just the cruise. Beyond that I think I'll sit on the sidelines with you until it gets a lot more "normal."

[ontheweb]

57 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

I doubt you will see it stick as a policy.

What do you base that on? I could see them seeing it as a significant money maker.

[ontheweb]

22 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Well, I for one will not cruise if my only choice is to stay on the ship or to a ship’s excursion.  Most excursions don’t do what we want and besides, we like to take a chance to savour the flavour and enjoy time in the port observing.  

It’s just not feasible to me at all.  I have a favourite tapas bar we will go to in Malaga, a guide in Madeira that will take us to place no HAL excursions gone on.  The list is pretty endless.

I’m not interested in driving by highlights and seeing what someone dictates I do and wait for one pile of people to return.

We do the odd ship excursion but sadly, our experience has been they are on a downhill trend.  I have NO interest in being restricted in spots we love on being on a bus or a big group and not being able to do our own thing.

If HAL brings this out as policy, trust me, I’ll use my voice.

I do spend a fair chunk of change on board in other things so it’s not like HAL is being deprived of on board spending. 😉 

Exactly, very well said.

[Tampa Girl]

On 10/11/2020 at 1:15 PM, RocketMan275 said:

What's so great about cruising with those restrictions?

We will save our money and stay home until we can cruise in an enjoyable manner.

 

Ditto!

[CruiserBruce]

43 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

What do you base that on? I could see them seeing it as a significant money maker.

Too many people will rebel against only be allowed off the ship on ship excursions. It will be tolerated for the short term, but not the long term, IMHO.

[KirkNC]

56 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Too many people will rebel against only be allowed off the ship on ship excursions. It will be tolerated for the short term, but not the long term, IMHO.

I agree, on the longer cruises we typically take, probably half or more of the passengers do not take ship excursions.  Obviously there is some fluctuations based on the port.

[ontheweb]

14 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

Too many people will rebel against only be allowed off the ship on ship excursions. It will be tolerated for the short term, but not the long term, IMHO.

I hope you are correct. But it would seem to me that there are many passengers who do take only cruise line excursions, and they would not care. And there would also be new passengers who would not realize that that was not always the norm.

[What was that?]

Here is another article with interesting insight into Costa's process for assuring crewmembers are covid-free: Costa Diadema Crew Member Tests Positive for Covid-19 During Screening Phase

[NapTown Jim]

Mandatory masks are a deal breaker for us.  The restricted cruiseline-only tours is another problem.  If these are in place before our March HAL cruise, we'll be cancelling.

[Hlitner]

I posted about this in another thread but will say it again.  We think the "rules" being practiced on Costa change what we would call a vacation cruise to a prisoner ship!   If there were no other travel options other then to take a cruise with all the new restrictions we would probably "suck it up" and take a short cruise.  However, there is a lot more to the travel world then cruises and with the kind of restrictions being imposed on Costa (and some other cruise lines now having limited European operations) we will simply avail ourselves of other opportunities.  Having cruised extensively since 1975 (far more then 1200 cruise days) my love of being on a cruise ship is not even a question.  When DW and I walk onto a ship we both feel like all the troubles of the world have been left behind and we are home!   But what is being suggested as how to operate cruises in a COVID world is just not acceptable to me.   We hope that these new restrictions are just temporary and things will move back to something close to normal once (if) there is a vaccine.  Otherwise I will talk about all the wonderful cruises we have taken while we are on extended land trips :).

 

Perhaps I can better express our feelings by explaining that we are not going to pay hundreds of dollars per passenger day to be a virtual prisoner on a ship.  It would not be much fun and apart from the wonderful experience of being at sea there would be little to attract me to that kind of voyage.  Instead of cruising 100+ days a year we can easily transition to many more land days (probably renting apartments in some favorite European cities/towns) for the same or less money then a cruise.  After reading many of the excellent discussions here on CC I have finally reached the conclusion that there is no reasonable solution to mass market cruising without a safe/effective COVID vaccine.

 

Hank

[SeeSun&Sea]

3 hours ago, NapTown Jim said:

Mandatory masks are a deal breaker for us. 

Poor Holland America, and other cruise lines, too! I'm on the "If the cruise line doesn't have well-documented stringently enforced mask & distancing rules, then I'm not sailing -- or I'm suing for reckless endangerment if they aren't enforced" end of the spectrum. Cruise lines won't be able to win, no matter what.

Edited October 14, 2020 by SeeSun&Sea
punctuation

[prescottbob]

4 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I posted about this in another thread but will say it again.  We think the "rules" being practiced on Costa change what we would call a vacation cruise to a prisoner ship!   If there were no other travel options other then to take a cruise with all the new restrictions we would probably "suck it up" and take a short cruise.  However, there is a lot more to the travel world then cruises and with the kind of restrictions being imposed on Costa (and some other cruise lines now having limited European operations) we will simply avail ourselves of other opportunities.  Having cruised extensively since 1975 (far more then 1200 cruise days) my love of being on a cruise ship is not even a question.  When DW and I walk onto a ship we both feel like all the troubles of the world have been left behind and we are home!   But what is being suggested as how to operate cruises in a COVID world is just not acceptable to me.   We hope that these new restrictions are just temporary and things will move back to something close to normal once (if) there is a vaccine.  Otherwise I will talk about all the wonderful cruises we have taken while we are on extended land trips :).

 

Perhaps I can better express our feelings by explaining that we are not going to pay hundreds of dollars per passenger day to be a virtual prisoner on a ship.  It would not be much fun and apart from the wonderful experience of being at sea there would be little to attract me to that kind of voyage.  Instead of cruising 100+ days a year we can easily transition to many more land days (probably renting apartments in some favorite European cities/towns) for the same or less money then a cruise.  After reading many of the excellent discussions here on CC I have finally reached the conclusion that there is no reasonable solution to mass market cruising without a safe/effective COVID vaccine.

 

Hank

Yup. Totally agree.

 

Be well.

Bob

[KirkNC]

Vaccine won’t solve the problem, there not 100% effective.  It’s a tool but not the final answer.

[prescottbob]

True. No vaccines are, due to an individual’s, dare I say, one’s unique,  immunological response & processing.

 

The agent injected whether it be a modified live agent (hope not, old vaccinations, old school) or newer viral clones / portions (dead, non infective) of existing viral particles that ‘fool’ the spleen and bone marrow ( the so called B & T cells, aka lymphocytes,producers) into making antibodies ( the ‘good guys’).

 

Me thinks, and I will not  be first in line ,when and if a vaccine becomes available  soon. When it’s proven to be effective with minimal side effects I’ll be there in line.

 

BTW, when  a safe and effective vaccine / immunization for COVID becomes available I would think a proof of vaccination thereof, will be similar to the Yellow Fever vaccination certificates required for cruising and traveling in some countries henceforth, JMHO.

 

No worries. How fortunate we all are to be just worried about our next “travel experience” aboard a cruise ship.

 

Be well.

Bob

Edited October 15, 2020 by prescottbob
Spelling

[ontheweb]

15 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I posted about this in another thread but will say it again.  We think the "rules" being practiced on Costa change what we would call a vacation cruise to a prisoner ship!   If there were no other travel options other then to take a cruise with all the new restrictions we would probably "suck it up" and take a short cruise.  However, there is a lot more to the travel world then cruises and with the kind of restrictions being imposed on Costa (and some other cruise lines now having limited European operations) we will simply avail ourselves of other opportunities.  Having cruised extensively since 1975 (far more then 1200 cruise days) my love of being on a cruise ship is not even a question.  When DW and I walk onto a ship we both feel like all the troubles of the world have been left behind and we are home!   But what is being suggested as how to operate cruises in a COVID world is just not acceptable to me.   We hope that these new restrictions are just temporary and things will move back to something close to normal once (if) there is a vaccine.  Otherwise I will talk about all the wonderful cruises we have taken while we are on extended land trips :).

 

Perhaps I can better express our feelings by explaining that we are not going to pay hundreds of dollars per passenger day to be a virtual prisoner on a ship.  It would not be much fun and apart from the wonderful experience of being at sea there would be little to attract me to that kind of voyage.  Instead of cruising 100+ days a year we can easily transition to many more land days (probably renting apartments in some favorite European cities/towns) for the same or less money then a cruise.  After reading many of the excellent discussions here on CC I have finally reached the conclusion that there is no reasonable solution to mass market cruising without a safe/effective COVID vaccine.

 

Hank

I think referring to a cruise with these proposed new rules as a prisoner ship is a little over the top. But I would say it is not an environment conducive to having an enjoyable time. Many of the things that make cruises fun just do not work with social distancing. And forcing you to take their excursions as the only way off the ship in a port is just a non-starter.

[CruiserBruce]

11 hours ago, KirkNC said:

Vaccine won’t solve the problem, there not 100% effective.  It’s a tool but not the final answer.

It doesn't have to be 100% effective to be effective. It needs to encourage herd immunity...where 70-80% of the population is immune, thus not giving the bug much place to successfully live and spread. (Note...this is without the death rate of developing herd immunity "naturally".) This same concept applies to the concern that it won't fully protect a given vaccinated individual...but if the bug can't get established, you are better protected.

 

 

[KirkNC]

50 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

It doesn't have to be 100% effective to be effective. It needs to encourage herd immunity...where 70-80% of the population is immune, thus not giving the bug much place to successfully live and spread. (Note...this is without the death rate of developing herd immunity "naturally".) This same concept applies to the concern that it won't fully protect a given vaccinated individual...but if the bug can't get established, you are better protected.

 

 

Agreed but many seem to think the vaccine is a silver bullet and it’s not.  It’s a tool along with the three W’s that combined can significantly reduce spread.  Another factor is getting enough of the population vaccinated.  Surveys say as many as 50% of the population have said they won’t get the vaccine.  That may change but that would significantly impact the benefits of a vaccine.  Also it will take months to get it manufactured and distributed.  I read an article today that said lower risk members of the population (I.e. young people) may not be able to get vaccinated until 2022.  
 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/14/coronavirus-healthy-young-people-might-not-be-able-to-get-the-vaccine-until-2022-who-says.html

[KirkNC]

Here is a revealing quote from the article 

 

Dr. Soumya Swaminathan, WHO’s chief scientist, said health workers, frontline workers and the elderly will likely be offered a vaccine first, though prioritization details are still being worked out by the WHO and its advisory groups. And, of course, a vaccine for the virus has yet to be deemed safe and effective by the WHO, the European Union or the United States.

 

“People tend to think that on the first of January or the first of April, I’m going to get the vaccine, and then things will be back to normal,” Swaminathan said. “It’s not going to work like that.”

She added that the world will hopefully have at least one safe and effective vaccine by 2021, but it will be available in “limited quantities.” The WHO’s strategic advisory group of experts on immunization, or SAGE, recently published guidelines for countries on how to consider prioritizing different groups of people.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

Agreed but many seem to think the vaccine is a silver bullet and it’s not.  It’s a tool along with the three W’s that combined can significantly reduce spread.  Another factor is getting enough of the population vaccinated.  Surveys say as many as 50% of the population have said they won’t get the vaccine.  That may change but that would significantly impact the benefits of a vaccine.  Also it will take months to get it manufactured and distributed.  I read an article today that said lower risk members of the population (I.e. young people) may not be able to get vaccinated until 2022.  
 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/14/coronavirus-healthy-young-people-might-not-be-able-to-get-the-vaccine-until-2022-who-says.html

By what's been happening in colleges it sure looks like young people will not only be not interested in a vaccine, but do not seem to care now about the simple preventative measures like masks and social distancing.