COVID-19 Surging Across Europe

[Ride-The-Waves]

Ireland just announced a 6-week total lockdown across the country.  Spain acknowledged its number of cases now exceeds one million.  Poland, Russia, Germany, France and Italy all acknowledge cases are increasing significantly.  Even Canada is seeing the expansion of cases.  In the US meanwhile, 42 US states are seeing new highs in case numbers and the rate of COVID-19 transmission has exceeded that experienced in May.  While some of this was expected, the extent is still a shock.  It also means that tourist travel, with or without a vaccine (not expected before next Spring and then tourism will be a very low priority) travel to Europe is essentially shut down.  And cruising, both in the America's and Europe, is a non-starter.  

 

This is a very sad state of affairs for those of us seniors who enjoy visiting new places and revisiting former favorites.  I grew up in Europe (Netherlands/Belgium/Switzerland) and enjoy going "home" whenever possible.  My wife and I are on the north side of 75 and unlikely to see Europe again.  CLIA and medical professionals advise that traveling at our age in the time of coronavirus is dangerous and irresponsible.  We agree.  We would like to visit Europe again...but with borders closed to non-business travel and the expansion of the virus, first and second wave combined, doesn't look like that is a possibility.  

[LGW59]

13 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Ireland just announced a 6-week total lockdown across the country.  Spain acknowledged its number of cases now exceeds one million.  Poland, Russia, Germany, France and Italy all acknowledge cases are increasing significantly.  Even Canada is seeing the expansion of cases.  In the US meanwhile, 42 US states are seeing new highs in case numbers and the rate of COVID-19 transmission has exceeded that experienced in May.  While some of this was expected, the extent is still a shock.  It also means that tourist travel, with or without a vaccine (not expected before next Spring and then tourism will be a very low priority) travel to Europe is essentially shut down.  And cruising, both in the America's and Europe, is a non-starter.  

 

This is a very sad state of affairs for those of us seniors who enjoy visiting new places and revisiting former favorites.  I grew up in Europe (Netherlands/Belgium/Switzerland) and enjoy going "home" whenever possible.  My wife and I are on the north side of 75 and unlikely to see Europe again.  CLIA and medical professionals advise that traveling at our age in the time of coronavirus is dangerous and irresponsible.  We agree.  We would like to visit Europe again...but with borders closed to non-business travel and the expansion of the virus, first and second wave combined, doesn't look like that is a possibility.  

But people can still go out and stay within 3 miles of their homes, and in small group with one other household, but not in their own backyards.  I read today that US is about 1 week behind Europe, so we will probably face something similar again.  And where I live, Boston just announced back to 100% remote learning starting tomorrow, no more indoor classes.

[mduffy1834]

my heart breaks for you, Ride-the-Waves........agree that this global pandemic is crazy right now, with not real end in sight.  I hope and pray that someday soon you will be able to visit your homelands.  Our next European cruise is scheduled for May, 2022 - such a long time away and so many things need to change before then.  But our first cruise is a Caribbean one in April, 2021 - not sure if we will be comfortable enough to enjoy that one.  Time will tell

 

 

[upwarduk]

Gov.UK still advise against cruising. Initially it was for the over 70’s, but now it is for the whole population.

I certainly won’t be booking a cruise in the near future, as I am 79 next birthday. I will wait for an effective vaccination.

Edited October 21, 2020 by upwarduk

[LGW59]

48 minutes ago, upwarduk said:

Gov.UK still advise against cruising. Initially it was for the over 70’s, but now it is for the whole population.

I certainly won’t be booking a cruise in the near future, as I am 79 next birthday. I will wait for an effective vaccination.

Happy early BDay, stay safe, and wise decision!  I am 60 and will seriously consider to get on APEX in May 2021, when I will then be 61.

[cantstopingcruising]

36 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

Happy early BDay, stay safe, and wise decision!  I am 60 and will seriously consider to get on APEX in May 2021, when I will then be 61.

We are booked on the same May 15 Apex.  We will be celebrating my husband's 80th birthday which will be in April.

I hope so much this trip will materialize! So far, we are busy cancelling cruises. We stay home. Today we went to the dentist. That was a BIG outing! Now I will go back to the good book I am reading!

 

Stay safe and healthy and one day we may meet on a cruise!

[PTC DAWG]

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/10/20/925441975/studies-point-to-big-drop-in-covid-19-death-rates

[Ashland]

We're scheduled for a British Isles cruise on July 30, 2021...and keeping our fingers crossed.

 

[nocl]

1 hour ago, PTC DAWG said:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/10/20/925441975/studies-point-to-big-drop-in-covid-19-death-rates

The increased knowledge of how to treat the virus, and the corresponding improvement in survival rates just points out how important it was and still continues to be to delay the rate of infections.  After all anyone getting sick today, has at least a 30% better chance of surviving today vs back in April.  Someone getting infected next year will have an even better chance.

 

Unfortunately the other, non-fatal, impacts are still present and the evidence is growing that these are fairly widespread with the long haulers, and organ damage.

[Covepointcruiser]

The first transatlantic left the port of Portsmouth a few days ago.   They boarded 19 passengers and had some already boarded from Norway.   It’s one of the Sea Dreams ships.    Two of the passengers were from Orlando, FL.   They disregarded all COVID warnings in the U.S. and in the U.K. and went directly from the airport to the port.   With the number of cases in Florida I hope this couple has not put everyone on the ship at risk.   The final destination is Barbados, so my November there will be cruises from Barbados.

[sandancer]

15 hours ago, upwarduk said:

Gov.UK still advise against cruising. Initially it was for the over 70’s, but now it is for the whole population.

I certainly won’t be booking a cruise in the near future, as I am 79 next birthday. I will wait for an effective vaccination.

We have just renewed our annual travel insurance and I made sure they were aware that we needed cruise cover. The immediate response was that as long as the gov advisory is in place we will not be covered.  We would never even consider travelling against an advisory and we do not expect to take the cruise we have booked for April 21. Fortunately as we use a US TA we can get our $900 deposit back. 

[PTC DAWG]

13 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

    Two of the passengers were from Orlando, FL.   They disregarded all COVID warnings in the U.S. and in the U.K. and went directly from the airport to the port.   With the number of cases in Florida I hope this couple has not put everyone on the ship at risk.   The final destination is Barbados, so my November there will be cruises from Barbados.

Cases in Florida peaked July 11th.  

[sandancer]

My immediate thought was why did the cruise line allow them to board?

[nocl]

4 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Cases in Florida peaked July 11th.  

However, it is starting to curve up again.  Lets see where it is about Dec 15.

[TeeRick]

The second wave had been predicted and widely publicized since the spring peaks by many experts worldwide - for the autumn season in the northern hemisphere - and here it is.  Right on schedule.  Not sure why this is catching some off guard.  Or is it just pandemic fatigue for many of us?  Is it the grim realization that we cannot really get our lives fully back- and travel as we wish?  Without a vaccine and some effective level of herd immunity then these waves are predicted to keep coming.  Not good news but hopefully we are more prepared now, our governments are more experienced now, and are healthcare systems are better trained and equipped.  That is all we can hope for.  And an effective vaccine soon with a population willing to receive it.

Edited October 22, 2020 by TeeRick

[UnorigionalName]

36 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

The second wave had been predicted and widely publicized since the spring peaks by many experts worldwide - for the autumn season in the northern hemisphere - and here it is.  Right on schedule.  Not sure why this is catching some off guard.  Or is it just pandemic fatigue for many of us?  Is it the grim realization that we cannot really get our lives fully back- and travel as we wish?  Without a vaccine and some effective level of herd immunity then these waves are predicted to keep coming.  Not good news but hopefully we are more prepared now, our governments are more experienced now, and are healthcare systems are better trained and equipped.  That is all we can hope for.  And an effective vaccine soon with a population willing to receive it.

 

I think a big part of it is cultural.  Some societies and ways of living are more prone to spreading and better at fighting it than others.

 

I think there were not too many winning choices in the west.  The best chance was probably complete lockdown like New Zealand but all the land border closures were not palatable for all the non island countries.

 

The countries that did really harsh lockdowns at the start.  They were initially successful but people got burned out really quick and I think a lot of people are more of the mindset that they are willing to see more people die until the effects of COVID affects them more than the lockdowns affect them.  In the beginning without clear data and experience on how to fight the virus, the really harsh lockdowns kind of burned through everyone's reserves, money and emotional, all in the beginning.

 

But then the countries that didn't do harsh lockdowns had huge spread and huge deaths and eventually had to ramp up lockdowns anyways, and people still are getting burnt out by now.

 

Compared to say Asia, where the results are much better no matter the type of government.  Like you look at the S Korea experience with very science and data driven central planning from the government with rapidly increasing and decreasing lockdowns based on day to day statistics and mass testing was successful.

 

But then you see Japan's government basically did not much (as their usual MO), but their population self-organized and they are doing remarkably well anyways.

[Gracie115]

6 hours ago, PTC DAWG said:

Cases in Florida peaked July 11th.  

 

 

That's right, our positivity rate for the last 60 days is around 6%.  We had a high count yesterday of 5000 positives, but that was from 98,000 tests or a positivity rate of 5.6%.  The day before it was 2100 or so.  With 22 Million in the state Florida seems to be holding it's own during this surge...hopefully that will continue.....🤞

Edited October 22, 2020 by Gracie115

[LGW59]

20 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

I think a big part of it is cultural.  Some societies and ways of living are more prone to spreading and better at fighting it than others.

 

I think there were not too many winning choices in the west.  The best chance was probably complete lockdown like New Zealand but all the land border closures were not palatable for all the non island countries.

 

The countries that did really harsh lockdowns at the start.  They were initially successful but people got burned out really quick and I think a lot of people are more of the mindset that they are willing to see more people die until the effects of COVID affects them more than the lockdowns affect them.  In the beginning without clear data and experience on how to fight the virus, the really harsh lockdowns kind of burned through everyone's reserves, money and emotional, all in the beginning.

 

But then the countries that didn't do harsh lockdowns had huge spread and huge deaths and eventually had to ramp up lockdowns anyways, and people still are getting burnt out by now.

 

Compared to say Asia, where the results are much better no matter the type of government.  Like you look at the S Korea experience with very science and data driven central planning from the government with rapidly increasing and decreasing lockdowns based on day to day statistics and mass testing was successful.

 

But then you see Japan's government basically did not much (as their usual MO), but their population self-organized and they are doing remarkably well anyways.

Well said, UnoriginalName!  Hesitant to name any specific country because it gets into a knock em down about their society, form of government etc.  That is not what this is about, it's about protecting people, ALL people, regardless of nation, different countries will do what they do in the hopes of protecting their people.  Just like many of us will do what we feel we need to do, to protect ourselves as well as our neighbors, whether we know them or not.

[Arizona Wildcat]

19 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

The first transatlantic left the port of Portsmouth a few days ago.   They boarded 19 passengers and had some already boarded from Norway.   It’s one of the Sea Dreams ships.    Two of the passengers were from Orlando, FL.   They disregarded all COVID warnings in the U.S. and in the U.K. and went directly from the airport to the port.   With the number of cases in Florida I hope this couple has not put everyone on the ship at risk.   The final destination is Barbados, so my November there will be cruises from Barbados.

Sea Dreams has about 100 passenger capacity.  As it is so small allowed to sail almost everywhere.

[SeaHunt]

"Fredrik" (whose post location shows as "Sverige") posted over on the Costa board that Costa has cancelled some Smeralda sailings for certain residents now - here's what his cancellation letter said (partial letter, bolding mine, full letter on Costa board). 

 

I'm posting this here only because of the topic (Covid 19 surging across Europe) and what the Costa cancellation letter shows regarding cases in Europe and denying embarkation to some based on their countries infection rate.  I imagine if this could happen to other lines too:

 

Dear Guests,

 

As we all have learned the global alert on the pandemic is dramatically increasing every day in all countries worldwide and almost all sectors are moving quite fast to react to the challenges posed by such an unprecedent issue. 

 

Over the last few days, the continuously growing number of cases throughout European countries have prompted the relevant national health authorities to elevate their precautionary measures and to impose several restrictions aimed at containing the spreading of the Covid-19. 

 

We at Costa Cruises believe that a cruise should be the most relaxing and enjoying experience that deserves all the best conditions to be memorable. We are managing our operations with a great sense of responsibility towards our guests and crew members, as well as the residents of the communities we visit with our ships.  

 

Being responsible is not a choice for us. It represents a pillar we cannot and do not intend to trade off for any reason. 

 

Within this context we made an attentive assessment of the actual situation and we cannot exclude that its evolution may lead to additional restrictive measures, thus impacting on the safe return of guests to their home country. 

 

For this reason, by taking into consideration the above described situation, for the time being we responsibly decided to restrict embarkation until the end of November to those nationalities with infection rate is higher than Italy as sourced from the  European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, an agency of the European Union ( https://covid19-country-overviews.ecdc.europa.eu/) and therefore we regret to inform you that your cruise on board Costa Smeralda is cancelled.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

More sad news from BBC

Virus to stay 'at least until next summer' - Macron https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54669060

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Airbalancer said:

More sad news from BBC

Virus to stay 'at least until next summer' - Macron https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54669060

Tonight, here in the US, Dr Fauci said masks will most likely need to be worn through 2021.  I don't mind them anymore, has become automatic for me as soon as I get ready to leave the house.  

[ABoatNerd]

Well here in Toronto, we are increasingly locked down.

My sister in Ottawa is freaking cause the retirement homes (not long term care) will not let any residents out for even an emerg appointment unless, unless, upon your return, you have a negative covid test and even then you still have to do a 14 day isolation, a 14 day isolation, realize that means you can not leave your room. People who are 93 years old with dementia, can not get out of their room.

 

Beyond insane. 

So you Americans, it is not just your most dear country, gather your selves up and move forward USA.

Canada is not the paragon of success it has been portrayed in the media, by any means. Check out British Columbia.

 

 

 

[Fouremco]

As an Ottawa resident with friends currently living in retirement homes, I can assure you that the majority of residents are extremely happy to see strict rules implemented to protect them as well as the residents of Long Term Care facilities. What would be insane would be to ignore the threat to this most vulnerable segment of society and to not introduce protocols in an attempt to prevent a repetition of the horrendous toll during the first wave. 

 

[Oville]

22 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

As an Ottawa resident with friends currently living in retirement homes, I can assure you that the majority of residents are extremely happy to see strict rules implemented to protect them as well as the residents of Long Term Care facilities. What would be insane would be to ignore the threat to this most vulnerable segment of society and to not introduce protocols in an attempt to prevent a repetition of the horrendous toll during the first wave. 

 

Well the governor of FL lifted nursing home/Long Term Care restrictions yesterday on visitation.