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54 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

Avril

What were they testing and checking for before boarding?

Whatever,

 

It did not work, it was able to by pass the checks and testing.

 

3 day test prior, plus embarkation check, and daily temperature check,it got passed it all.

 

Masks are secondary.

 

Was this cruise important in the great scheme of things, absolutely it would seem, by the number of. influence's, bloggers and industry  press, [including one from this site], on board ,ready to trumpet it's success,.

 

8 guests and possible one crew member, at this time, seems to be the number., out of 54 guests and 61 crew, details from those on-board.

 

At the outset,all guests confined to there cabins, the 7 day cruise paused and ship returned to the embarkation port.

 

The protocols have not worked.

That's just the problem mercury, there weren't any protocols!! Only temperature checks before boarding. Once on board it was a free-for-all.  No social distancing no masks, they were in a 'negative bubble'. Ridiculous and a recipe for disaster. Compare that with the trial Med cruises - temperature checks. masks, and social distancing and not one case of covid that (I know of) 

Avril

Edited by Adawn47
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1 minute ago, Adawn47 said:

That's just the problem mercury, there weren't any protocols!! Only temperature checks before boarding. Once on board it was a free-for-all.  No social distancing no masks, they were in a 'negative bubble'. Ridiculous and a recipe for disaster. Compare that with the trial Med cruises - temperature checks. masks, and social distancing and not one case of covid that (I know of) 

Avril

Avril

 

That is not what was being blogged /reported. The only point they raised, is that they were required to wear masks from the Monday, with first reported case on the Wednesday.

As well as on line video bloggs look at the CC web site for the line.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

Avril

 

That is not what was being blogged /reported. The only point they raised, is that they were required to wear masks from the Monday, with first reported case on the Wednesday.

As well as on line video bloggs look at the CC web site for the line.

 

 

Cruise Critic freelance writer Sue Bryant reported; Passengers were required to take a COVID-19 test at home prior to flying to the Island, and to test negative within 72 hours of travel. They were then given another PCR test by the cruise lines ship doctor before boarding.

Social distancing was required, tables chairs loungers and bar stools were separated.

The gym was open, but you had to book a slot in advance.Hand sanitisers were everywhere. Temperatures were checked daily, and cabins sanitised with UV light every day.

Allowing for all this, the first passenger who tested positive, had asked, for an additional test because he was feeling unwell. These are the facts as reported.

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3 hours ago, Josy1953 said:

I asked the question and didn't get a clear answer, so I will ask again at my appointment next week.

 

We had originally volunteered as potential trial candidates and DH was asked to join the Oxford trial, but after reading the further info. supplied he asked the trial member of staff a couple of questions.  One was if he would be able to have a vaccine if one became available and he was advised he would, so I suspect you would just go ahead and have the vaccine as you would if not on a trial (so possibly an extra dose).  From my science background, I would not see them unblinding any part of the trial until it had been completed (and I am not sure if they do even then) as I would expect them to continue to monitor you for other reasons, as would have been done anyway, as they would still gain extra potential information.  You will need to ask to be sure obviously, but thought I would fill you in with that.

 

The other question we asked was about any impact on travel insurance, which he was told could be the case and that he would need to tell the insurance company.  He then rang our insurance company about that and was told they (AXA) would want to re assess him with that info added to his other details, so he was not even able to get a clear answer from them.  Hence he decided to decline taking part in the trial, mainly because we are booked to go to the US next Sept and we could not risk loosing our full travel insurance for that. 

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2 hours ago, mercury7289 said:

Cruise Critic freelance writer Sue Bryant reported; Passengers were required to take a COVID-19 test at home prior to flying to the Island, and to test negative within 72 hours of travel. They were then given another PCR test by the cruise lines ship doctor before boarding.

Social distancing was required, tables chairs loungers and bar stools were separated.

The gym was open, but you had to book a slot in advance.Hand sanitisers were everywhere. Temperatures were checked daily, and cabins sanitised with UV light every day.

Allowing for all this, the first passenger who tested positive, had asked, for an additional test because he was feeling unwell. These are the facts as reported.

I was reading a piece by James Walker of cruiselawnews.com who quoted an article written by Doug Parker of Cruise Radio that 

''SeaDream Yacht Club Officials said that ''masks will not be required to be worn on the yacht, thanks to extensive pre-departure testing designed to create a negative 'bubble''' Someone on board also said the there was little or no social distancing.  They also said that the first time they were told to wear a mask was when the first case was reported.It all depends on who's version you read. Was Sue Bryantt on board?

Avril

Edited by Adawn47
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5 hours ago, Josy1953 said:

I asked the question and didn't get a clear answer, so I will ask again at my appointment next week.

We were told that as it is voluntary, we can ask to leave the trial at any time and if we contact Novavax, they are allowed to ‘unblind’ you and tell you if you ask. They also implied that they expect there to be a choice of vaccine and you should be able to choose which one you have. That may also involve being unblinded which they will do. 

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51 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

I was reading a piece by James Walker of cruiselawnews.com who quoted an article written by Doug Parker of Cruise Radio that 

''SeaDream Yacht Club Officials said that ''masks will not be required to be worn on the yacht, thanks to extensive pre-departure testing designed to create a negative 'bubble''' Someone on board also said the there was little or no social distancing.  They also said that the first time they were told to wear a mask was when the first case was reported.It all depends on who's version you read. Was Sue Bryantt on board?

Avril

Yes, she was Avril,

The cruise seemed to have been advertised as you say regarding masks, however the mask requirement became the rule on the Monday, 2 days before the first guest tested positive.

Click on the Seadream Yacht Club, CC web site, Covid theme, page one, you will see her report

Maybe a question needs to be asked why the change in the mask regulation,however this is secondary, the main question is how did Covid break though the protocols?

Everyone in the industry will want the answer, and so do guests.

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I've just seen that Saga have launched a 9 night Britain and Ireland cruise, departing Aoril 3rd, which is something that many have thought P&O should offer.

Personally,  I think that April would be too early to restart crusing,  but the price (for Saga) is pretty cheap, starting at £1605 pp.

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4 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Do you know for certain wowzz that this "expert" is a well respected scientist with a reputation for honest unbiased reporting  or could she be a charlatan?

The Faculty of Pharmaceutical Medicine is a well respected,  professional organisation, so I see no reason why they would allow a "charlatan" to become  a chair on one of their committees.

https://www.fpm.org.uk/

I know we can all be cynical at times, but you are being a little unfair to cast aspersions on someone who is merely repeating what many other research scientists have already stated. 

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22 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I've just seen that Saga have launched a 9 night Britain and Ireland cruise, departing Aoril 3rd, which is something that many have thought P&O should offer.

Personally,  I think that April would be too early to restart crusing,  but the price (for Saga) is pretty cheap, starting at £1605 pp.

I agree that I think P and O should offer a British Isles cruise now that Cruise and Maritime have gone into administration.We are interested in the cruise around Ireland in June offered by Saga.Its more expensive than the cruise in April but all new ports so I think worth the extra.Won't book until next year though depending on how things are

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47 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

Yes, she was Avril,

The cruise seemed to have been advertised as you say regarding masks, however the mask requirement became the rule on the Monday, 2 days before the first guest tested positive.

Click on the Seadream Yacht Club, CC web site, Covid theme, page one, you will see her report

Maybe a question needs to be asked why the change in the mask regulation,however this is secondary, the main question is how did Covid break though the protocols?

Everyone in the industry will want the answer, and so do guests.

Because the protocols aren't designed to stop all instances of covid. If it was that easy, it would've taken place on land too. They're there to reduce the risk of transmission. As Moley has said, there will be covid on cruises, but it's how they deal with it that's key. 

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26 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

Because the protocols aren't designed to stop all instances of covid. If it was that easy, it would've taken place on land too. They're there to reduce the risk of transmission. As Moley has said, there will be covid on cruises, but it's how they deal with it that's key. 

How they dealt with it---------the protocols did not pick up the first case, it was the guests request for another test that did, then one positive test meant other guests isolated in there cabins, for the rest of the time, cruise curtailed and passengers returned to port of departure.there were only 54 guests.

So to stop the risk, everyone had to isolate in there cabin, then 1 became 8 or possible 9. but full count will come out in the ensuing days. It is a nightmare for all concerned the guests and the industry, and not helped by white washing the realities. My May cruises covering 11 countries, give me cause for concern,with how this played out

Edited by mercury7289
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19 minutes ago, mercury7289 said:

How they dealt with it---------the protocols did not pick up the first case, it was the guests request for another test that did, then one positive test meant other guests isolated in there cabins, for the rest of the time, cruise curtailed and passengers returned to port of departure.there were only 54 guests.

So to stop the risk, everyone had to isolate in there cabin, then 1 became 8 or possible 9. but full count will come out in the ensuing days. It is a nightmare for all concerned the guests and the industry, and not helped by white washing the realities. My May cruises covering 11 countries, give me cause for concern,with how this played out

Totally agree that it's not a great situation. And it's one that everyone who decides to cruise will have to be prepared for. At least until numbers are more under control or the vaccine has been given to sufficient numbers. 

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6 hours ago, mercury7289 said:

Maybe a question needs to be asked why the change in the mask regulation, however this is secondary, the main question is how did Covid break though the protocols?

Everyone in the industry will want the answer, and so do guests.

 

I think its safe to say that their so-called protocols were mere window dressing and nothing else.  A PCR test done 72hrs prior to travel only indicates whether or not you're positive/negative at the time of the test but what about the time leading up to the day of travel?  Likely these people took their test, got a negative result and failed to remain self-isolated or in a 'safe' space during the time leading up to their departure to Barbados.  Of course they could have very well contracted the virus en route, which again despite the on-site testing prior to embarkation clearly did not pick it up as the bug had not as yet incubated to the point of detection.  Add to the fact that the on-site testing from what I understand is likely to be an Antigen test as opposed to a PCR test which is less accurate so there is an opening for false negative results.

 

At the end of the day, even those companies currently cruising have had positive cases onboard with the difference being how they've handled both the cases and the dissemination of information.  There is absolutely no way (and I await the critics of this statement) that a single case will just remain a single case in a densely populated environment because by the time the carrier is either symptomatic or 'not feeling well' they've likely transmitted it to multiple people.

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15 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

Also  the passengers on Seadream weren't told to wear masks either until after the event. No social distancing or protocols on board according to some passengers.

Avril


I read that - madness! No masks at all for the first three days!

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2 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

There is absolutely no way (and I await the critics of this statement) that a single case will just remain a single case in a densely populated environment because by the time the carrier is either symptomatic or 'not feeling well' they've likely transmitted it to multiple people.

And that will still be the case even with a vaccine. Those who have had the vaccine will still contract and spread the virus,  because the vaccine controls the symptoms of CV19, nothing more.

Which is not to downplay how important  the successful introduction of a vaccine will be, on the reduction of deaths and the easing of the burden of the NHS.  But there will still be a need for social distancing protocols, and those countries that have not  been able to implement a mass vaccination programme will still not want a ship load of vaccinated passengers wandering around, potentially spreading CV19 in their wake (sic).

A vaccine in itself will not suddenly mean that cruising reverts  to  pre-covid days.

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29 minutes ago, wowzz said:

And that will still be the case even with a vaccine. Those who have had the vaccine will still contract and spread the virus,  because the vaccine controls the symptoms of CV19, nothing more.

 

Which is not to downplay how important  the successful introduction of a vaccine will be, on the reduction of deaths and the easing of the burden of the NHS.  But there will still be a need for social distancing protocols, and those countries that have not  been able to implement a mass vaccination programme will still not want a ship load of vaccinated passengers wandering around, potentially spreading CV19 in their wake (sic).

A vaccine in itself will not suddenly mean that cruising reverts  to  pre-covid days.

We don't know yet!

 

I agree social distancing protocols will still be vital as even with a 'full' vaccination program there remains a significant potential reservoir in the younger age groups

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2 hours ago, P&O SUE said:


I read that - madness! No masks at all for the first three days!

I think it was probably longer than three days. 
 

The Sea Dream was the ship that picked up 19 people from Portsmouth about 3 or 4 weeks ago, so there had been a maskless trans Atlantic crossing.  They got lucky that nobody had brought the virus aboard from the European pick ups.

 

The change to mask wearing happened about 2-3 days into the week long cruise from Barbados. It is thought that this happened due to a backlash on social media. One of the bloggers onboard had posted a photo of the maskless crew, and there was a lot of adverse comments about this on social media.

 

Of course, it was like shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted, as the 5 infected people had already spent at least two maskless days wandering around the ship.

 

We’ll probably never know the full extent of the outbreak as the Barbadian authorities wanted the passengers off the island, allowing them to fly out of the country on commercial flights with no further quarantine 

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10 minutes ago, davecttr said:

We don't know yet!

 

I agree social distancing protocols will still be vital as even with a 'full' vaccination program there remains a significant potential reservoir in the younger age groups

Plus, of course,  the efficacy of any of the vaccines is, as yet, not fully known, but appears to be around 6 months, although, depending on the Individual it could be as low as 4 months. Anyone thinking of a RTW cruise would need to be immunised immediately before sailing.  (Mind you, I can't see any long cruises of over 2 weeks, let alone RTWs starting anytime soon)

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11 hours ago, pete14 said:

We were told that as it is voluntary, we can ask to leave the trial at any time and if we contact Novavax, they are allowed to ‘unblind’ you and tell you if you ask. They also implied that they expect there to be a choice of vaccine and you should be able to choose which one you have. That may also involve being unblinded which they will do. 

Thanks Pete,  when I asked they just said that I could leave the trial at anytime ( which I knew before I signed up ) but the doctor who I asked if we would be to!d whether we had had the vaccine or the placebo if a vaccine found to be safe enough to be rolled out to the public and she said that it was a blind trial and she was unsure whether we could be unblinded.

 

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11 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Plus, of course,  the efficacy of any of the vaccines is, as yet, not fully known, but appears to be around 6 months, although, depending on the Individual it could be as low as 4 months. Anyone thinking of a RTW cruise would need to be immunised immediately before sailing.  (Mind you, I can't see any long cruises of over 2 weeks, let alone RTWs starting anytime soon)

I thought they were still unsure about this? 

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14 minutes ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I think it was probably longer than three days. 
 

The Sea Dream was the ship that picked up 19 people from Portsmouth about 3 or 4 weeks ago, so there had been a maskless trans Atlantic crossing.  They got lucky that nobody had brought the virus aboard from the European pick ups.

 

The change to mask wearing happened about 2-3 days into the week long cruise from Barbados. It is thought that this happened due to a backlash on social media. One of the bloggers onboard had posted a photo of the maskless crew, and there was a lot of adverse comments about this on social media.

 

Of course, it was like shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted, as the 5 infected people had already spent at least two maskless days wandering around the ship.

 

We’ll probably never know the full extent of the outbreak as the Barbadian authorities wanted the passengers off the island, allowing them to fly out of the country on commercial flights with no further quarantine 

The return flight doesn't seem to have been handled brilliantly, either: https://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~bd_rvd&w_id=38267&news_id=2045093

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Funny old world. Upto quite recently many,many on here were saying how they won't cruise again until til there is a vaccine. Now they are telling us all how a vaccine won't work. I deduce many are just so pessimisti rhat after all this is gone , they will start some other nonsense .

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14 minutes ago, zap99 said:

Funny old world. Upto quite recently many,many on here were saying how they won't cruise again until til there is a vaccine. Now they are telling us all how a vaccine won't work. I deduce many are just so pessimisti rhat after all this is gone , they will start some other nonsense .

Where has anybody actually said that a vaccine won’t work? 

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