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No Sail Order Lifted


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57 minutes ago, Keksie said:

Local governments yes but not the federal government.  I am not sure how the death toll could be underestimated since any dead person with covid is counted toward that total.  Herd immunity can be acquired by vaccination not just exposure.  That would lead to even fewer deaths not more.  You can extrapolate but without accurate data it is just an inaccurate guess.

I beg to differ. We have friends who were diagnosed as pneumonia but later it was discovered they actually had Covid. A lot of younger people have had no symptoms so are not counted in the stats. Also some actually die from other reasons but the after effects of Covid infections cause these deaths indirectly.. Not to mention the long lasting effects of lung damage! It goes on and on.

Bottom line is people need to be wearing masks and not congregating in groups to protect EVERYONE. and if they cannot behave in a safe and responsible manner then govt needs to step in. I gladly give up my right to decide whether or not to wear a mask if it saves my husband, daughter and any stranger!!

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24 minutes ago, gmjc2 said:

I beg to differ. We have friends who were diagnosed as pneumonia but later it was discovered they actually had Covid. A lot of younger people have had no symptoms so are not counted in the stats. Also some actually die from other reasons but the after effects of Covid infections cause these deaths indirectly.. Not to mention the long lasting effects of lung damage! It goes on and on.

Bottom line is people need to be wearing masks and not congregating in groups to protect EVERYONE. and if they cannot behave in a safe and responsible manner then govt needs to step in. I gladly give up my right to decide whether or not to wear a mask if it saves my husband, daughter and any stranger!!

 The number of positive people with no symptoms or slight symptoms who have never been tested and therefore not counted lead to inaccurate data.  Without accurate data one cannot have a complete picture of the situation.  I was responding to whether the government can require clothing, not exactly sure why you chose to add your bottom line to my comment but bless your heart.

 

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1 hour ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Agree. Totals of people testing positive are not a factor at all. It does nothing more but put fear into people. The death counts are way incorrect and BOGUS. If you are lucky to have a family physician who will give you first hand TRUE information like I am, you would understand how the numbers are totally controlled. tested positive and death numbers are not even close to correct.

Overall hospitalization is up. Overall deaths are up. Do some of you really think there is a second mystery pandemic out there ?

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1 hour ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Deaths from ONLY the Covid19 virus are WAY overstated. Who ever says understated, is just not informed. The news sources are NOT the places to get the correct information from. 

Not sure where you are getting your information from.  

 

How about medical publications.  Studies on the death rates in the US indicate that COVID case counts only account for 70% of the higher than normal deaths in the US since the outbreak started.  The locations of the higher than normal death counts also correspond to the timing and locations of high levels of Covid infections.

 

Primary reasons for the under count was that early in the outbreak many cases were not tested or diagnosed as being Covid.  Also Covid diagnoses were looking for bimodal pneumonia and often did not recognize strokes, clotting, heart failure as being potentially Covid induced things that are now recognized.  Also deaths that occurred at home were often not checked.

 

Why don't you list your sources of information and I will show you mine and we can see whose has more credibility.

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8 minutes ago, Keksie said:

 The number of positive people with no symptoms or slight symptoms who have never been tested and therefore not counted lead to inaccurate data.  Without accurate data one cannot have a complete picture of the situation.  I was responding to whether the government can require clothing, not exactly sure why you chose to add your bottom line to my comment but bless your heart.

 

Estimates in the early days of the outbreak (based upon antibody testing) indicate that the official counts underestimate the cases by 5 to 10X.  These days it is better with current estimates being in the range of 3-5X.  The reason for the undercount is asymptomatic cases where there is no reason to test unless on is notified of an infected close contact, people with mild cases who either do not believe that it is Covid, or do not want to believe and never get tested, groups such as undocumented immigrants who, unless the case is extremely serious, will not get tested because of concern of it potential making them an ICE target, etc.

 

That is why when you look at the official counts the deaths/cases come out about 2.5%, but the CDC mortality estimate is in the .6 to .9 range because of the under counting of cases.

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20 minutes ago, memoak said:

Overall hospitalization is up. Overall deaths are up. Do some of you really think there is a second mystery pandemic out there ?

Also keep in mind that hospitalizations and deaths lag the infections by roughly 15 and 30 days respectively.  So an increase in cases today will not show up in hospital numbers for about 2 weeks and the deaths will not show up for about 4 weeks. So we are seeing hospitalizations now from new cases back in the middle of October when cases were a little over 50,000. Deaths for that period will not be visible until the middle of November.  Both hospitalizations and death numbers are moving up.

 

Someone getting sick today and a 30% better odds of survival that back in the April-May time frame.  So there is some good news on mortality.  Unfortunately the number of cases are expected to exceed the spring peak by far more than that.  Especially with Thanksgiving and Christmas coming up with the traditional of social gatherings, in addition to the loss of outside activities in many areas as cold weather sets in.

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1 hour ago, ALWAYS CRUZIN said:

Deaths from ONLY the Covid19 virus are WAY overstated. Who ever says understated, is just not informed. The news sources are NOT the places to get the correct information from. 

you are correct with all due respect we will rely on you as the official source

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On 10/31/2020 at 7:54 AM, GonzoWCS said:

Well let's get it started folks!  Step-by-step, eyes wide open, but always forward!

 

Cheers

Two steps forward .... one step back .... 

 

" At the outset, the CDC's requirements are in-line with what lines are already doing in Europe. The trouble is the onerous restart phase that requires lines to jump through a number of procedural hoops that go far beyond what the European Union is requiring before sailings can resume -- and the requirement that they not leave U.S. waters."   

 

This from a good c c article today. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Keksie said:

Local governments yes but not the federal government.  I am not sure how the death toll could be underestimated since any dead person with covid is counted toward that total.  Herd immunity can be acquired by vaccination not just exposure.  That would lead to even fewer deaths not more.  You can extrapolate but without accurate data it is just an inaccurate guess.

The estimate can be wrong because not all deaths are actually tested for COVID. If you goto the emergency room with similar symptoms and then die they can classify it as the virus with no questions asked.  Too many documented cases of hospitals doing this as well as nursing homes.  Figures being reported as COVID deaths are highly suspect.

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7 minutes ago, Steelers36 said:

Do we need a new thread now so folks can post for their favorite team to win tomorrow?  From what I hear, it could take a while if results are close and the States that have tons of mail-ins to count are not done that by tomorrow night. 

 

Since when do your Steelers play on a Tuesday?  You're correct about Pennsylvania....their mail-in numbers could takes days to count.

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12 hours ago, c-boy said:

Two steps forward .... one step back .... 

 

" At the outset, the CDC's requirements are in-line with what lines are already doing in Europe. The trouble is the onerous restart phase that requires lines to jump through a number of procedural hoops that go far beyond what the European Union is requiring before sailings can resume -- and the requirement that they not leave U.S. waters."   

 

This from a good c c article today. 

 

 

'If that is really a requirement, it makes it very difficult to do the required practicing of shore excursions in foreign ports under CDC requirements.

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22 hours ago, c-boy said:

Two steps forward .... one step back .... 

 

" At the outset, the CDC's requirements are in-line with what lines are already doing in Europe. The trouble is the onerous restart phase that requires lines to jump through a number of procedural hoops that go far beyond what the European Union is requiring before sailings can resume -- and the requirement that they not leave U.S. waters."   

 

This from a good c c article today. 

 

 

I do not believe the comment about the requirement that they not leave US waters to be correct.

 

The order explicitly says in multiple locations that the order applies to any ships located in US waters, or intends to return to US waters.  They would not say that if there existed a ban on leaving US waters.  The ships could also not effectively sail if they could not leave US waters.

 

So based upon that if a ship was departing from a port in the US and doing a one way trip to Europe where it would remain than the order would not apply.  A cruise departing from a US port, leaves US waters and returns to a US port would be bound by the order.  Similarly a ship could go from US to Europe for a one way cruise, then leave Europe for a one way cruise to the US and it would also be bound by the order.

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As you say, It is just your belief with nothing to show why.  As we all KNOW the CDC will do what they want despite many peoples beliefs and declarations. After all they are the "experts".

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1 hour ago, Potstech said:

As you say, It is just your belief with nothing to show why.  As we all KNOW the CDC will do what they want despite many peoples beliefs and declarations. After all they are the "experts".

So which should be more important according to you, the beliefs and declarations of some people or expertise based on research and experience?

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On 10/30/2020 at 8:55 PM, spyro1952 said:

Reports from MSC pax have stated elevators and stairways are nightmares.  Only 4 people per elevator with waits up to 1 hr.  Stairways are just as bad as only 1 person allowed at a time with crew monitors on each landing.  These cruises were reported as reduced capacity.  Also MDR dinner;  you had to order before you even entered, service was extremely rushed.  No self serve at buffet only 2 pax per table who were traveling together.  This pax reported waiting over 90 mins to get a table for breakfast at buffet.

Gee, that sure sounds like fun...sign me up!   NOT!!!

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On 10/31/2020 at 8:31 AM, Potstech said:

So Chinese people who refer to it as "Wuhan virus" are racist? They will love to hear that.

Funny don't you think...almost every other virus in history has been named for the lcoation of it's origin.  For some reason people find it offensive this time because it originated in Wuhan China.  It's laughable and shows the obsurdity of so many.

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On 10/31/2020 at 11:46 AM, generichandle said:

*snicker*;

 

You must be joking. The 'breathalizer' does not prove you are going to injure someone, it proves you are violating the law. After all, even before the drunk driver laws, not EVERY person who drove drunk wrecked and caused mayhem. The legal authority was to correct significant risk, not certainty. Just like the self-centered idiots who believe that they have 'rights' without RESPONSIBILITIES when wearing no mask and putting OTHERS at risk, drunk drivers have the same fantasies. Luckily, we have government, and they need to be responsible too. 

 

New example:

 

Early in WW2, the German air force began night bombing of London and other British cities. The government ask people to not have lights at night, to foil the bombers. Do you imagine someone saying "Hey, I can risk my life and turn on my lights, they are mine!"? But wait, the bombers are not that accurate, so some will surely find your neighbors .....so, no way! 

 

'Rights' without responsibility is just anarchy, which I must remind you the folk who mostly argue against masks are often declaiming against, accusing protestors of being 'anarchists'. 

 

Reminder of the REAL point. Liberty /> Responsibility. Period!

Not addressing your post per se, but have a few examples and would like your thoughts: 

 

1) Most science so far tells us once you get infected and have anti-bodies, you can not contract a high enough viral load to be infectious.  So, if people have already been confirmed to have it and now over it, should they be required to wear a mask?  Or should they wear a scarlet letter letting people know they are immune and not a carrier.

 

2) Do you know that science tells us it takes about 15 minutes of contact with a carrier to obtain a high enough viral load for you to get sick?  So, if you are wearing a clothe mask (which 99.999% of people wear) and someone with the virus coughs in the air, you unknowingly walk through it, the virus sticks to your mask, and you now breathe the virus in through that mask for however long you are wearing it, does that make the mask a safe haven or a petri dish?

 

The point is, there are mnay thoughts on the validity of wearing a mask...to include the health effects of wearing one for extended periods, so it's not so cut and dry that wearing one is good and not wearing one is bad.  There are too many variables to address.

 

yes, I wear one when in a store because I think it makes others feel more comfortable...not because I think it makes one iota of difference in me catching the virus.  And I have no issue of a store saying without one you can't enter.  But I also see people so scared to death by a false narrative that they even drive in their car alone with a mask on...which is very bad over time for their health.  Anyway, just a few thoughts.  Cheers!!!

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23 minutes ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

Funny don't you think...almost every other virus in history has been named for the lcoation of it's origin.  For some reason people find it offensive this time because it originated in Wuhan China.  It's laughable and shows the obsurdity of so many.

The Chinese Communist Party finds it offensive so their agenda is to declare anyone calling it "Wuhan" or Chinese" as racist. That is the main reason.

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The mask may not be a perfect solution but it is better than nothing. Also, it has been stated by doctors that a person can get the virus more than once.

In the store---Mother and two daughters--no masks.--they kept getting closer and closer to me  ( wearing a mask) until the girls were right next to me. I asked them to back up to the 6 ft rule more- for their sake than mine. The girls asked why did she say that ---Mom answered " because she is paranoid" 

 

This is what we are up against trying to rid ourselves of this virus!!!

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1 hour ago, USCcruisecrazy said:

So, if you are wearing a clothe mask (which 99.999% of people wear) and someone with the virus coughs in the air, you unknowingly walk through it, the virus sticks to your mask, and you now breathe the virus in through that mask for however long you are wearing it, does that make the mask a safe haven or a petri dish?

 

The point is, there are mnay thoughts on the validity of wearing a mask...to include the health effects of wearing one for extended periods, so it's not so cut and dry that wearing one is good and not wearing one is bad.  There are too many variables to address.

 

yes, I wear one when in a store because I think it makes others feel more comfortable...not because I think it makes one iota of difference in me catching the virus.  And I have no issue of a store saying without one you can't enter.  But I also see people so scared to death by a false narrative that they even drive in their car alone with a mask on...which is very bad over time for their health.  Anyway, just a few thoughts.  Cheers!!!

Well said.  Sanity!  Rationally presented, without any rancor or hostility.

 

I wear a mask when I go into a business.  It is required by law and it is polite and respectful to the business owner and his/her/its employees and customers.  But I do not believe that it does anything to protect me or others from the virus.

 

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We have a friend that works for Princess as a safety officer and he used to rotate between ships as scheduled. He has been at home in Poland for quite some time. Today he received orders and air line tickets to join the Regal Princess this week. He thinks that is a good sign that things will be getting started.

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