Star gets PCR lab

[Mich3554]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Vibration dampers can manage the vibration and gimbles can eliminate the movement. Up on the Bridge, we have equally sensitive electronics and no issues.

 

Temperature fluctuations are generally a greater concern than vibration/ship movement.

Temperature fluctuations are not so much a problem as the equipment itself controls those.  AFAIK, none of the lab equipment has vibration dampers from the manufacturer.  We could have used it in a lab not on a rocking boat!.  Placing equipment in the lab we needed to be careful to separate that equipment that causes a vibration from those the vibration affects.  We had a centrifuge that we wound up moving as the vibration from use misaligned the lasers in another piece.

 

 What is NOT controlled is the hand of the lab person.  Imagine trying to put something with a slightly larger diameter of a hair into something that is about 0.5mm x 3mm on a rocking boat and hitting the target exactly.  

[JeriGail]

When Viking announced the PCR lab on the Star, they also said it would sail to Oslo in mid-November where it would demonstrate the lab plus the additional protocols.  The Star did move from Rostock to Kristiansand, so I wonder if they were testing the lab at sea at that time.

[Jim Avery]

Not trying to minimize the danger of covid but this lab will only help if bureaucrats require it in other countries.  As I have said before, testing does not show how you are, merely how you were.  There is a thread over on the SeaDream board that illustrates this perfectly.  SeaDream is a small ship (60 passengers and 60 crew at this event) and most venues are open air.  A negative test was required within 72 hours of boarding.  Boarding was in Barbados and they required a test on arrival.  Barbados also required going straight to the ship  in government approved vehicles.  SeaDream tested all passengers upon arrival and passengers were not allowed out of cabins until the negative result came back.  Then there was testing every day.  On the 4th day of the cruise a passenger came down with symptoms and tested positive.  Ship immediately locked down and returned to BGI.  5 out of that passengers group of 6 tested positive along with another couple for 7 positives.  Infected while traveling but did not show up for 5 days.  So multiple testing protected no one.  What could SeaDream have possibly done more?  Only quarantine passengers (at their expense) for however many days it is these days prior to allowing boarding, but who would do that?   One more example.  University of Alabama's Head Coach Nick Saban tested positive today.  He is constantly tested and Alabama has the strictest covid protocols in place possible.  Testing will do nothing to prevent a world wide, airborne virus.  Get well quick Coach, we need you.  

Edited November 25, 2020 by Jim Avery

[Mich3554]

5 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Not trying to minimize the danger of covid but this lab will only help if bureaucrats require it in other countries.  As I have said before, testing does not show how you are, merely how you were.  There is a thread over on the SeaDream board that illustrates this perfectly.  SeaDream is a small ship (60 passengers and 60 crew at this event) and most venues are open air.  A negative test was required within 72 hours of boarding.  Boarding was in Barbados and they required a test on arrival.  Barbados also required going straight to the ship  in government approved vehicles.  SeaDream tested all passengers upon arrival and passengers were not allowed out of cabins until the negative result came back.  Then there was testing every day.  On the 4th day of the cruise a passenger came down with symptoms and tested positive.  Ship immediately locked down and returned to BGI.  5 out of that passengers group of 6 tested positive along with another couple for 7 positives.  Infected while traveling but did not show up for 5 days.  So multiple testing protected no one.  What could SeaDream have possibly done more?  Only quarantine passengers (at their expense) for however many days it is these days prior to allowing boarding, but who would do that?   One more example.  University of Alabama's Head Coach Nick Saban tested positive today.  He is constantly tested and Alabama has the strictest covid protocols in place possible.  Testing will do nothing to prevent a world wide, airborne virus.  Get well quick Coach, we need you.  

SeaDream tested with the quick antigen test.  That was a mistake because it has a very high false negative rate and can not detect low viral loads. Right now, the PCR test is technically more complicated, but has both a much better specificity and sensitivity rate.  This is the same method the White House used, and you saw how effective this was.  An antigen test is not a good screening device, it works better as a diagnostic test in order to differentiate between Covid and the flu.  The rate of false negatives for this test can be as high as 40%.  In any other circumstances, a test like this would not be released for use by the FDA.
 

When I read the article on the SeaDream, I knew exactly what they were doing and that it very likely was going to fail.  

 

 

[rbslos18]

6 hours ago, Jim Avery said:

Not trying to minimize the danger of covid but this lab will only help if bureaucrats require it in other countries.  As I have said before, testing does not show how you are, merely how you were.  There is a thread over on the SeaDream board that illustrates this perfectly.  SeaDream is a small ship (60 passengers and 60 crew at this event) and most venues are open air.  A negative test was required within 72 hours of boarding.  Boarding was in Barbados and they required a test on arrival.  Barbados also required going straight to the ship  in government approved vehicles.  SeaDream tested all passengers upon arrival and passengers were not allowed out of cabins until the negative result came back.  Then there was testing every day.  On the 4th day of the cruise a passenger came down with symptoms and tested positive.  Ship immediately locked down and returned to BGI.  5 out of that passengers group of 6 tested positive along with another couple for 7 positives.  Infected while traveling but did not show up for 5 days.  So multiple testing protected no one.  What could SeaDream have possibly done more?  Only quarantine passengers (at their expense) for however many days it is these days prior to allowing boarding, but who would do that?   One more example.  University of Alabama's Head Coach Nick Saban tested positive today.  He is constantly tested and Alabama has the strictest covid protocols in place possible.  Testing will do nothing to prevent a world wide, airborne virus.  Get well quick Coach, we need you.  

My guess is the only way to cruise safely will be to require all passengers to not only be tested but also vaccinated.
In some cases but  not all, the disease attacks so fast and causes such dangerous symptoms that ships would have to get people to hospitals on land. By next Summer, many if not all of us will have received one dosage. By the Fall, hopefully both. Prior to getting the vaccination widely dispensed and improving treatment, cruising may be a very high risk for passengers. 

[Captain_Morgan]

As has been mentioned numerous times, testing is not the 'silver bullet' to resumption of cruising as you can be tested daily and still be an asymptomatic spreader as has been shown across America and other parts of the world.

Testing is definitely a large part of the equation to controlling the spread, but what happens when there is an outbreak onboard because no test is 100% accurate and then you've got to back track on all of the close contacts, etc. to try and get on top of the situation.

As it relates to SeaDream, sure its a lot easier to lockdown a ship with 60 passengers onboard after 7 confirmed positive cases onboard, but if there is an outbreak of the same 10% or more on any ship returning to service that could result in another cruising catastrophe that all of the resources put in place to make it appear that it is a safe environment wont count for a thing.

[rbslos18]

6 hours ago, Captain_Morgan said:

As has been mentioned numerous times, testing is not the 'silver bullet' to resumption of cruising as you can be tested daily and still be an asymptomatic spreader as has been shown across America and other parts of the world.

Testing is definitely a large part of the equation to controlling the spread, but what happens when there is an outbreak onboard because no test is 100% accurate and then you've got to back track on all of the close contacts, etc. to try and get on top of the situation.

As it relates to SeaDream, sure its a lot easier to lockdown a ship with 60 passengers onboard after 7 confirmed positive cases onboard, but if there is an outbreak of the same 10% or more on any ship returning to service that could result in another cruising catastrophe that all of the resources put in place to make it appear that it is a safe environment wont count for a thing.

Precisely! Thus the need for better and more effective treatments. The first step is a buy-in from the public that masks and social distancing work. The treatments will continue to come. Based on the advice of a panel of physicians I use for work, we do have a delayed Viking cruise planned for late 2021.