Cruise without a vaccine

[broberts]

There is speculation that cruising may restart before a vaccine is generally available. Thinking about it, I realized that while I'd like to go transborder and household issues would prevent it.

[donaldsc]

12 minutes ago, broberts said:

There is speculation that cruising may restart before a vaccine is generally available. Thinking about it, I realized that while I'd like to go transborder and household issues would prevent it.

 

More important than transborder of household issues, common sense should prevent it.  

 

DON

[SelectSys]

41 minutes ago, broberts said:

Thinking about it, I realized that while I'd like to go transborder and household issues would prevent it.

 

I can't speak to the household issues, but it seems possible that you could travel to Barbados and take a cruise.  The Canadian government suggests that all non-essential be put on hold, but nonstop flights are available from Toronto on both WestJet and Air Canada.

 

Once in Barbados, Sea Dream is offering cruises.  I am sure they aren't cheap, but they are offering discounts for booking multiple cruises.

 

27 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

More important than transborder of household issues, common sense should prevent it.  

 

 

Perhaps.

 

BTW - I voted no.

Edited November 3, 2020 by SelectSys

[SuiteTraveler]

 I would think it will be hard to impossible to enter other countries until a vaccine is available and you have proof of vaccination or you would have to take a test on the spot and wait for results.  I saw the new CDC guidelines for cruising where you must test negative immediately before you get on the ship, but I'm not convinced that would be enough for other countries to grant admission.  All it would take is one cruise ship having a false negative onboard and the ports would close to all cruise ships again.

[evandbob]

Health comes first...before wealth, before travel, before cruising.

 

Now if they offered us a suite with no other passengers on board...........

[ontheweb]

33 minutes ago, evandbob said:

Health comes first...before wealth, before travel, before cruising.

 

Now if they offered us a suite with no other passengers on board...........

Even if there were no other passengers, there would still be a crew. Would that stop you from taking that offer?

[getting older slowly]

lImited cruising should start ( single country ).... we all can't live in a cave forever... we must learn to live with it

 

Masks, social distancing and wash your hands...... but it is difficult when some think it does not apply to them...

 

So the bottom line is we can't sit around and wait for vaccine.....

 

Don

[sanger727]

5 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

More important than transborder of household issues, common sense should prevent it.  

 

DON

that’s quite an arrogant response. Not everyone sees things the same as you or is in the same position as you. What makes sense for you makes sense for you, not everyone else. What about someone who has recently recovered from Covid. Why should they be concerned about traveling without a vaccine?

[navybankerteacher]

I might cruise without a vaccine   - although I think it highly unlikely.   I am not sure cruising would be a practical and enjoyable option until there is a vaccine.

 

The fact is, once there is a vaccine (meaning one available)  I doubt that I would be inclined to do ANYTHING without a vaccine - just as now I do not do anything without a flu vaccine.

[cruisingguy007]

Probably not, wouldn't be the same product or experience. I enjoy talking to fellow passengers, interacting with the crew, and my kids love the social aspects of cruising as well. We love cruising but if things weren't the same, it wouldn't hold the same value for us as a family trip.

[evandbob]

On 11/3/2020 at 4:14 PM, ontheweb said:

Even if there were no other passengers, there would still be a crew. Would that stop you from taking that offer?

 

With minimal screened and daily tested crew, we could eat dinners in the steakhouse or jijis,  have room service deliver breakfast and lunch en suite, might be something to fantasize about since it'll never happen.  Private excursions on private islands, there's all sorts of imaginary situations...... etc etc etc

 

If there were any issues, I'd text the Captain on his private line - he'll give me that # when he greets us when boarding.

[2wheelin]

26 minutes ago, evandbob said:

 

With minimal screened and daily tested crew, we could eat dinners in the steakhouse or jijis,  have room service deliver breakfast and lunch en suite, might be something to fantasize about since it'll never happen.  Private excursions on private islands, there's all sorts of imaginary situations...... etc etc etc

 

If there were any issues, I'd text the Captain on his private line - he'll give me that # when he greets us when boarding.

That would be Captain Stubing?

[Hlitner]

On 11/3/2020 at 2:57 PM, SuiteTraveler said:

 I would think it will be hard to impossible to enter other countries until a vaccine is available and you have proof of vaccination or you would have to take a test on the spot and wait for results.  I saw the new CDC guidelines for cruising where you must test negative immediately before you get on the ship, but I'm not convinced that would be enough for other countries to grant admission.  All it would take is one cruise ship having a false negative onboard and the ports would close to all cruise ships again.

The false negative issue is often ignored by folks with an agenda.  It is interesting that even the CDC has little faith in the fast antigen tests (it is why they speak to PCR tests for the cruise lines)  But lets talk about the false negative situation and why it dooms the cruise industry until we get a vaccine.  The fast antigen tests (i.e. Abbott) is what would be used at any port to for a last minute screening.  These tests have an estimated 20% false negative rate (some estimates are higher) which means that theoretically 1 out of 5 going on that vessel might have COVID!  But now you have to add to that the fact that no test (not even the more accurate PCR tests) will normally detect the virus in somebody who has recently (that would usually mean in the 3-4 days prior to the test) been exposed to COVID.   And  further consider that most cruisers would have been in travel mode in the days prior to arriving at the port, and travel mode means an increased risk of COVID exposure.    You add all this together and the odds of keeping any ship COVID free are not very good.  

 

So once you consider that the odds favor getting some COVID cases on a ship you then need to consider that mass market ships make true social distancing nearly impossible.  So with some non symptomatic cases on a ship it is inevitable that there will be spread and eventual COVID problems.  The CDC needs to wrestle with all these issues, but without a safe/effective vaccine there are apparently no good answers to how to make a cruise safe from COVID.

 

Hank 

[broberts]

11 minutes ago, Hlitner said:

...The CDC needs to wrestle with all these issues, but without a safe/effective vaccine there are apparently no good answers to how to make a cruise safe from COVID...

 

Certainly true, but even with vaccine cruising is going to be problematic for many risk groups. Initially, vaccine are not likely to eliminate current mitigation practices.

Edited November 5, 2020 by broberts

[iancal]

We would not consider a cruise unless a safe, effective vaccine was available for at least a few months.

 

There are lots of other travel options for us to consider in the interim once travel opens up.

[c-boy]

" Health comes first...before wealth, before travel, before cruising.

 

Now if they offered us a suite with no other passengers on board.."

 

That's called yachting  😄

[Toofarfromthesea]

12 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The false negative issue is often ignored by folks with an agenda.  It is interesting that even the CDC has little faith in the fast antigen tests (it is why they speak to PCR tests for the cruise lines)  But lets talk about the false negative situation and why it dooms the cruise industry until we get a vaccine.  The fast antigen tests (i.e. Abbott) is what would be used at any port to for a last minute screening.  These tests have an estimated 20% false negative rate (some estimates are higher) which means that theoretically 1 out of 5 going on that vessel might have COVID!  But now you have to add to that the fact that no test (not even the more accurate PCR tests) will normally detect the virus in somebody who has recently (that would usually mean in the 3-4 days prior to the test) been exposed to COVID.   And  further consider that most cruisers would have been in travel mode in the days prior to arriving at the port, and travel mode means an increased risk of COVID exposure.    You add all this together and the odds of keeping any ship COVID free are not very good.  

 

So once you consider that the odds favor getting some COVID cases on a ship you then need to consider that mass market ships make true social distancing nearly impossible.  So with some non symptomatic cases on a ship it is inevitable that there will be spread and eventual COVID problems.  The CDC needs to wrestle with all these issues, but without a safe/effective vaccine there are apparently no good answers to how to make a cruise safe from COVID.

 

Hank 

 

If the eventual vaccines are on the lower end of the acceptable effectiveness range they will still have to do all of that testing - even if pax are required to show proof of vaccinations.  Which is why I continue to maintain that effective treatments are far more important than a vaccine.

[ontheweb]

8 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

If the eventual vaccines are on the lower end of the acceptable effectiveness range they will still have to do all of that testing - even if pax are required to show proof of vaccinations.  Which is why I continue to maintain that effective treatments are far more important than a vaccine.

It's not really an either or situation. Both need to improve. Treatment does seem to be more effective than when this first broke out, and let's hope that at least one of the vaccines in its trial phase proves to be very effective.

[navybankerteacher]

10 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

If the eventual vaccines are on the lower end of the acceptable effectiveness range they will still have to do all of that testing - even if pax are required to show proof of vaccinations.  Which is why I continue to maintain that effective treatments are far more important than a vaccine.

There really are “effective treatments” already - they happen to be very costly in time and facilities, but when applied early enough seem to work in most cases - probably with a success rate which is already above the success rate for many existing vaccines .  

 

In any case - prevention is always preferable to cure.

[cruisemom42]

For me it is not a "single issue" that keeps me from cruising in the current environment, but rather a collection of issues that, for me, would make it difficult to rationalize cruising as a safe and desirable activity right now.

 

Yes, I would prefer to wait for a vaccine, but that is not the only consideration. I cruise mainly for the travel angle (not relaxation, although I enjoy it between ports). If I could not sightsee independently at ports, that is a no-go for me. And of course, that pre-supposes that most ports are again open to US citizens.

 

Also, merely having a vaccine myself would not necessarily make me feel immune -- given that we expect a less than 100% effective prevention with current vaccine candidates. So I also will want to see how cruise lines handle the situation. If vaccines are required for ALL guests and crew, I would certainly feel substantially safer/more comfortable. If not, I will probably continue to have a "wait and see" attitude.

 

After all, as already pointed out, cruising is not the only method of travel...

 

[cbr663]

It's a collection of issues that keep us from cruising as well.

 

Safety being number one.  How safe it is to cruise without and with a vaccine is yet to be determined.  I definitely need more information before I can reach a conclusion on that issue.

 

Second though is the cruise experience itself.  What exactly will it be like?  I don't think that it will reflect the many cruise experiences of the past.  And until I am able to form a clear understanding of what the cruise experience will be I will refrain from cruising.

[evandbob]

On 11/5/2020 at 11:54 AM, c-boy said:

" Health comes first...before wealth, before travel, before cruising.

 

Now if they offered us a suite with no other passengers on board.."

 

That's called yachting  😄

And when we win the lottery it will be considered!

[sverigecruiser]

 

I don't think that the cruise itself is the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem is people travel to their cruise.

 

I really can't see that a cruise from Genua to Naples, Civitavecchia and Sicily with only Italiens should be a big problem. If they go to work, use public transportation  and buy groceries they can also cruise, I think.

 

They same with domestic American cruises. 

[lenquixote66]

On 11/8/2020 at 8:59 AM, sverigecruiser said:

 

I don't think that the cruise itself is the biggest problem. I think the biggest problem is people travel to their cruise.

 

I really can't see that a cruise from Genua to Naples, Civitavecchia and Sicily with only Italiens should be a big problem. If they go to work, use public transportation  and buy groceries they can also cruise, I think.

 

They same with domestic American cruises. 

I heard on the radio today that Pfizer has a vaccine that is 90% effective and that several other drug companies report the same thing.Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel after all.

[broberts]

25 minutes ago, lenquixote66 said:

I heard on the radio today that Pfizer has a vaccine that is 90% effective and that several other drug companies report the same thing.Perhaps there is light at the end of the tunnel after all.

 

It's hopeful news. Given the information provided, the news is likely intended to improve stock prices. I tend to be somewhat skeptical of such announcements. Not that I doubt what was reported, just that I suspect tempering data have been excluded.