Vaccination Certification?

[evandbob]

I read that Ticketmaster is exploring ways to certify the vaccination or COVID test status of its customers: 

 

 https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/touring/9481166/ticketmaster-vaccine-check-concerts-plan

 

I may be jumping the gun here, but if a vaccine proves effective, should cruise lines adopt a similar plan?  We would place our (hopefully refundable) deposit to secure the booking, and then have to provide digital proof of vaccination and/or a recent up to date COVID test before being able to pay in full and also when we prepare to board.   Our boarding pass could have this information encoded after it's received from a verifiable health care source.

 

This might help to winnow out cruisers who might present falsified or non-existent claims of immunization or antibodies.  What do you think?

[mom says]

Why reinvent the wheel?  The standard yellow immunization book is already internationally recognized. A simple policy requiring this as proof of immunization at the time of boarding should be all that is required. 

[klfrodo]

For international travel,,, I'd go with what mom has to say. The percentages of people who travel internationally is so low that I don't think the falsification of vaccination would be a problem.

 

However, that's not to say that Ticketmaster is not on to something when it comes to concert and sporting venues. I think it would be more effective at those events.

 

I'm not opposed to this idea for travel though. It could be part of my Clear program, my GOES program, or the Real ID program.

[sanger727]

I am expecting a vaccination proof to become a standard item for many things in the future, cruising being only one of them. I do think creating fraudulent records will become a problem with all the people who are currently against taking the vaccine. So I hope a secure electronic verification method can be created. 

[njhorseman]

43 minutes ago, evandbob said:

then have to provide digital proof of vaccination and/or a recent up to date COVID test before being able to pay in full and also when we prepare to board

A negative CVID test prior to making final payment is of no value. Final payments can be due months prior  to embarkation so except in the case of last minute bookings they are of no value in proving you are COVID-free at the time of sailing. And you might be infected at final payment time but healthy at the sailing date. Testing has to be done as close as possible to the embarkation date to be useful and even then a person recently exposed to the virus might not have symptoms or test positive until after they are on board and the cruise is underway.

As far as proof of vaccination is concerned we need to determine how long a vaccine provides immunity before setting timelines. With multiple vaccines likely, differing immunity timelines for each are quite possible.

Edited November 12, 2020 by njhorseman

[Roz]

28 minutes ago, mom says said:

Why reinvent the wheel?  The standard yellow immunization book is already internationally recognized. A simple policy requiring this as proof of immunization at the time of boarding should be all that is required. 

 

I've been traveling internationally for years and was unaware this yellow book existed.  

[bigrednole]

For Covid, it may be an issue of which vaccination was taken. It is clear that you will not be able to get a vaccination from Pfizer and then another from say Moderna. If Moderna's is determine not to be effective, will this also prevent you from cruising because you are not vaccinated by Pfizer's? The reason being is you would not be able to jump over and take Pfizer's. If that becomes an issue, it is going to be a longer to determine who is eligible to travel with vaccines.

[MBP&O2/O]

1 hour ago, Roz said:

 

I've been traveling internationally for years and was unaware this yellow book existed.  

When I first went to sea in 19 er err errrr ... having this book was mandatory. Having said that in those days doctors didn’t charge to endorse it, and if they did you could claim expenses 😁

We needed everything as you never knew where you would end up!

[c-boy]

1 minute ago, MBP&O2/O said:

When I first went to sea in 19 er err errrr ... having this book was mandatory. Having said that in those days doctors didn’t charge to endorse it, and if they did you could claim expenses 😁

We needed everything as you never knew where you would end up!

I'm all for I D chipping 

[shipgeeks]

56 minutes ago, MBP&O2/O said:

When I first went to sea in 19 er err errrr ... having this book was mandatory. Having said that in those days doctors didn’t charge to endorse it, and if they did you could claim expenses 😁

We needed everything as you never knew where you would end up!

I think I started mine in college, to go to a Y work camp.  Over a few years I probably acquired more entries in it than all the passport stamps in all my passports combined!  Lots of jabs for lots of diseases.

[mom says]

5 hours ago, Roz said:

 

I've been traveling internationally for years and was unaware this yellow book existed.  

They've been in use for many decades. I remember my time in the Air Force back in the 70s- on days that I had clinic duty I would often have several people coming in for their jabs, with their books. Always felt sorry for some of the guys prepping for an oversees posting  -some needed multiple shots, and some of those were downright painful.

[neverbeenhere]

The yellow folded vaccination card is way to easy to falsify. The wife also comments that many people fill it out themselves to keep a record of various inoculations. 

 

Also, many of the vaccinations noted on the paper are really only for your own protection, while Covid is a two way street. 

[navybankerteacher]

6 hours ago, Roz said:

 

I've been traveling internationally for years and was unaware this yellow book existed.  

Either not that many years or not very wide travel.  

 

I’m sure someone who’s international travel involved going back and forth from Buffalo, NY to Toronto, Ont. never needed it either.

[donaldsc]

40 minutes ago, neverbeenhere said:

The yellow folded vaccination card is way to easy to falsify. The wife also comments that many people fill it out themselves to keep a record of various inoculations. 

 

Also, many of the vaccinations noted on the paper are really only for your own protection, while Covid is a two way street. 

 

How about the government keeping a registry of the shots you have taken or else including the shots as part of the info coded onto your passport.  This would obviously require that you have a passport every time you leave the country.  If you want to go w the government registry option, you would also have to have an id number tattooed on your body or have a microchip inserted into your body to prove that you are you.

 

This is all getting a bit complicated.

 

DON

[navybankerteacher]

5 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

How about the government keeping a registry of the shots you have taken or else including the shots as part of the info coded onto your passport.  This would obviously require that you have a passport every time you leave the country.  If you want to go w the government registry option, you would also have to have an id number tattooed on your body or have a microchip inserted into your body to prove that you are you.

 

This is all getting a bit complicated.

 

DON

Sadly the “I know my rights” folk may ultimately make it necessary for government to step in - at least to the degree of maintaining health records , and possibly to the degree of simply requiring some immunizations.

 

As population grows - and  new plagues evolve - the existing freedom of choice in health matters may need to be limited.  

 

If if you could trust people who did not want immunizations to simply stay away from others, such stringent approaches would not be necessary;  but our experience with COVID teaches us that a significant portion of our population will not discipline themselves.

[klfrodo]

11 minutes ago, donaldsc said:

 

How about the government keeping a registry of the shots you have taken or else including the shots as part of the info coded onto your passport.  This would obviously require that you have a passport every time you leave the country.  If you want to go w the government registry option, you would also have to have an id number tattooed on your body or have a microchip inserted into your body to prove that you are you.

 

This is all getting a bit complicated.

 

 

Progress is always complicated

 

Same was said about steam engine, telephones, automobiles, etc

[Geobugs]

[navybankerteacher]

3 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

A very tiresome cliche, currently favored by the “I know my rights crowd”.

[Roz]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Either not that many years or not very wide travel.  

 

I’m sure someone who’s international travel involved going back and forth from Buffalo, NY to Toronto, Ont. never needed it either.

 

I've done more than go from NY to Canada, Mr. Smartypants. How about Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Croatia,  and Hungary, to name a few.  My first trip to Europe was in 1984. 

[evandbob]

There is a black market for fake certifications already:  https://futurism.com/neoscope/buy-negative-covid19-test-black-market

 

I don't think we need to go to the extremes of skin tattoos or body ID chips though, that's simply hyperbole and a false argument.  What Ticketmaster is attempting is a digital certification that can then be coded into an admission scan.

 

The idea of a yellow book can be updated and digitized for accuracy.  Change is inevitable, and this pandemic is accelerating that process exponentially.

 

A few years back I mentioned on these boards that a cruise line could put menus, schedules of activities and shows, and all kinds of other data onto smart phones, and that the phone can also be used as a room key.  The majority of responders scoffed at that notion  then.

[Geobugs]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

A very tiresome cliche, currently favored by the “I know my rights crowd”.

 

It is not cliche, if it is true. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Roz said:

 

I've done more than go from NY to Canada, Mr. Smartypants. How about Romania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Croatia,  and Hungary, to name a few.  My first trip to Europe was in 1984. 

Well, Ms. Smartypants, if you had travelled much before 1984, or to many countries outside of Europe, you WOULD have been aware of the yellow vaccinations record.

[navybankerteacher]

34 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

 

It is not cliche, if it is true. 

If you really believe that no one comes out ahead as a result of securities issuance and the necessary subsequent trading without someone else losing just as much, there is no point in trying to start your financial education this late in the game.

[mom says]

3 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

How about the government keeping a registry of the shots you have taken or else including the shots as part of the info coded onto your passport.  This would obviously require that you have a passport every time you leave the country.  If you want to go w the government registry option, you would also have to have an id number tattooed on your body or have a microchip inserted into your body to prove that you are you.

 

This is all getting a bit complicated.

 

DON

OR you could encode the Vax Certificate book similar to passports. And make possession and/or use of a forged certificate book a felony with penalties similar to that for fake passports. 

[Geobugs]

I have family members that medically cannot accept a vaccination.  Would you ban them from cruising?