Vaccination Certification?

[sverigecruiser]

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The fact that it was done (and not just in the case of yellow fever - smallpox vaccination as well, I believe, as others were required for certain travel) means that it can be done —- and perhaps in the matter of COVID (depending upon the efficacy of vaccines) this might be the time to spend the time.

 

I agree with you that this might be the time to spend the time. The question then is how long will we have to wait for every involved country to change their laws? Six months? One year? Two years? 

 

The fact that some countries have mandatory vaccinations for entering the country doesn't mean that most countries are prepared to do it. 

[Shmoo here]

48 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

Naturally acquired immunity, immunity from having the disease itself, is better than the immunity provided by vaccines, according to many medical journals.

Quite possibly true, but I'm not willing to get the disease just so I have "better" immunity.

[Aulanis]

1 hour ago, Geobugs said:

Naturally acquired immunity, immunity from having the disease itself, is better than the immunity provided by vaccines, according to many medical journals.

 

Presumably, only if it doesnt kill you first!  

[VMax1700]

1 hour ago, Geobugs said:

Naturally acquired immunity, immunity from having the disease itself, is better than the immunity provided by vaccines, according to many medical journals.

Looks like immunity after infection only lasts around 6 months and may not give immunity against a second strain of the virus. (according to many sources)

https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-how-long-am-i-immune-after-an-infection/a-55420844

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/how-long-does-immunity-last-after-covid-19-what-we-know

Edited November 13, 2020 by VMax1700

[Geobugs]

If you didn't know, a vaccine actually gives you the disease, but a small enough dose that the body builds up antibodies. 

[neverbeenhere]

No. 

 

 

 

Some vaccines give you a weaken strain. Most vaccines “trick” your body to create the antibodies. 

[neverbeenhere]

I will say with impunity, as far as Covid goes, no one knows about immunity. 

[sanger727]

13 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

If you didn't know, a vaccine actually gives you the disease, but a small enough dose that the body builds up antibodies. 

vaccines present your body with parts of the virus or inactivated viruses to allow you to build an immunity. They don’t ‘give you the disease’. Some vaccination do give a live vaccine in small doses, but many don’t. For example the normal flu vaccine uses an inactivated virus so you don’t ‘get the disease’ and actually can’t catch the disease from the vaccine 

[mom says]

55 minutes ago, Geobugs said:

If you didn't know, a vaccine actually gives you the disease, but a small enough dose that the body builds up antibodies. 

Please stop spreading misinformation. From my readings, only a live virus vaccine has the potential to cause the recipient to develop the actual disease.  A chance of 2 per million, I believe. The COVID vaccines are not using live virus.

[wheezedr]

1 hour ago, Geobugs said:

If you didn't know, a vaccine actually gives you the disease, but a small enough dose that the body builds up antibodies. 

Actually a very incorrect statement.  While certain vaccines are in fact attenuated forms of a live virus, most are either killed products or just segments of the infectious agent.  The concept is to trigger the immune system to produce antibodies which would then attack the virus or bacteria at the time of wild exposure.  The classic differentiation would be between the Salk and Sabin polio vaccines.  Salk is a killed product while Sabin is a live virus.  Sabin is much easier to administer, oral drops, and thus remains a mainstay of international polio eradication programs.  In roughly 1 case per million doses it can lead to actual polio like illness in either the recipient or more commonly in an immunocompromised  caregiver of an infant as the virus passes through the GI tract.  This risk was felt to be to great in the US so we switched back to an enhanced version of the Salk vaccine a few years ago.  That risk level is outweighed by the vaccines benefit in much of the rest of the world.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, mom says said:

Please stop spreading misinformation. From my readings, only a live virus vaccine has the potential to cause the recipient to develop the actual disease.  A chance of 2 per million, I believe. The COVID vaccines are not using live virus.

You should review his related posts - an “interesting” view on the topic.

[navybankerteacher]

5 hours ago, sanger727 said:

well, it shows that I wasn’t alive in the 70s. And why exactly would anyone try to revive such an old fashioned thing when many travelers don’t even have one when there are much better and more secure digital records these days?

Of course modern technology should be applied - that  “old fashioned thing” was the concept of insuring that diseases were not carelessly spread - the method needs updating —— but would have to involve some expense, effort, and cooperation on the part of cruisers - too many of whom want to do things on the cheap.

[neverbeenhere]

While everyone will accidentally mis-post,  please attempt to use a search engine of your choice before posting schlock you don’t know. 

[sanger727]

8 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course modern technology should be applied - that  “old fashioned thing” was the concept of insuring that diseases were not carelessly spread - the method needs updating —— but would have to involve some expense, effort, and cooperation on the part of cruisers - too many of whom want to do things on the cheap.

i don’t have an issue with vaccination proof. In fact I am 100% for it. I’m against the idea that the yellow booklet is the ‘international standard’ and should be brought back into normal use. Any handwritten document will be easy to forge. That may have worked in the 70s but in this day of anti-vaccers, we can surely come up with a more secure and harder to fake method of vaccine proof.

 

 

[sanger727]

13 hours ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I agree with you that this might be the time to spend the time. The question then is how long will we have to wait for every involved country to change their laws? Six months? One year? Two years? 

 

The fact that some countries have mandatory vaccinations for entering the country doesn't mean that most countries are prepared to do it. 

in the months following the Covid outbreak, most countries shut their borders to tourists and as they slowly re-opened, instituted new ‘requirements’ of entry; quarantining, Covid testing, etc. that didn’t take years. Once a vaccine is available I would expect that they would simply allow an exception with proof of vaccine. So you can Covid test prior to trip and again upon arrival with a quarantine OR show proof of vaccine. Will they ultimately make it so a vaccine is required for all visitors? I don’t know. I don’t think it will be readily available to everyone worldwide until late 2021 and if enough people get vaccinated by then it may not be an issue by then. If there are many people refusing the vaccinate and Covid is still a big problem, then yes, it would be a relatively easy and common matter to make it required for visitors.

[sverigecruiser]

3 hours ago, sanger727 said:

in the months following the Covid outbreak, most countries shut their borders to tourists and as they slowly re-opened, instituted new ‘requirements’ of entry; quarantining, Covid testing, etc. that didn’t take years. Once a vaccine is available I would expect that they would simply allow an exception with proof of vaccine. So you can Covid test prior to trip and again upon arrival with a quarantine OR show proof of vaccine. Will they ultimately make it so a vaccine is required for all visitors? I don’t know. I don’t think it will be readily available to everyone worldwide until late 2021 and if enough people get vaccinated by then it may not be an issue by then. If there are many people refusing the vaccinate and Covid is still a big problem, then yes, it would be a relatively easy and common matter to make it required for visitors.

 

I think that there is a big difference between forcing people to quarantine and forcing them to vaccination. I don't think that it has to take years for countries to change their laws but it might take years to convince countries that they shall change the laws. I'm defenitely not sure about what will happen in Sweden but I doubt that lots of politicians here are prepared to say that they want mandatory vaccinations for anyone.   

[KirkNC]

Of course counterfeit vaccine records will pop up soon.

[navybankerteacher]

16 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I think that there is a big difference between forcing people to quarantine and forcing them to vaccination. I don't think that it has to take years for countries to change their laws but it might take years to convince countries that they shall change the laws. I'm defenitely not sure about what will happen in Sweden but I doubt that lots of politicians here are prepared to say that they want mandatory vaccinations for anyone.   

There may or may not be a movement towards mandatory vaccinations - but it would surely make sense to make having vaccinations for certain contagions (measles, already - and probably COVID) a pre-requisite for participating in certain un-necessary, purely recreational activities such as cruising - where such controls would be easy to apply as individual documentation is already part of the boarding process.

[Oulton Jim]

This makes perfect sense to me, I would only go on such a cruise anyway [whilst the pandemic is still rolling around the globe] 

[sanger727]

59 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I think that there is a big difference between forcing people to quarantine and forcing them to vaccination. I don't think that it has to take years for countries to change their laws but it might take years to convince countries that they shall change the laws. I'm defenitely not sure about what will happen in Sweden but I doubt that lots of politicians here are prepared to say that they want mandatory vaccinations for anyone.   

theres a big difference between mandating a vaccine for a countries residents vs for tourists. Mandating it for residents is one thing. But there is no doubt in my mind that for tourists it will be either mandatory or a combination of either Covid/testing and quarantine OR vaccine. Just curious. Are Sweden’s borders completely open to any international tourist now? What are the requirements of a tourist in regards to Covid?

[sverigecruiser]

45 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

There may or may not be a movement towards mandatory vaccinations - but it would surely make sense to make having vaccinations for certain contagions (measles, already - and probably COVID) a pre-requisite for participating in certain un-necessary, purely recreational activities such as cruising - where such controls would be easy to apply as individual documentation is already part of the boarding process.

 

Here I don't think that anything require vaccinations for participation.

 

[sverigecruiser]

13 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 Just curious. Are Sweden’s borders completely open to any international tourist now? What are the requirements of a tourist in regards to Covid?

 

I think that our borders are completely open right now. It's possible that the European Union has restrictions but I don't think that we have amy national restrictions. No special requirements for tourists as far as I know. 

[sanger727]

40 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

I think that our borders are completely open right now. It's possible that the European Union has restrictions but I don't think that we have amy national restrictions. No special requirements for tourists as far as I know. 

https://www.krisinformation.se/en/hazards-and-risks/disasters-and-incidents/2020/official-information-on-the-new-coronavirus/visiting-sweden-during-the-covid-19-pandemic

 

if this is a legitimate website it appears that your borders are closed to tourists outside the EU. I do agree that based on Sweden’s handling of Covid they are the least likely to require a vaccine. But, I wouldn’t hold that expectation of other countries.

[Hlitner]

I have posted this elsewhere but it needs to be said here too.  There is a new racket in Europe which is selling counterfeit COVID test reports.  In some places folks have bought counterfeit negative test reports!  That kind of thing does not bode well for the future of vaccinations.

 

Hank

[Geobugs]

Just to be clear. I have no issue with anyone getting the covid-19 vaccination for themself.  However, I have family members that cannot get such vaccinations due to health reasons.  I do have issue with counterfeit test reports and documents.  I don't think my family members should be excluded from cruising.  If the medically able people get the covid-19 vaccine, then my medically unable family members should not pose a danger to others.