Christmas Seadream cancelled

[cburger100]

For so many years it was our dream to one day be able to get on a Christmas Sea Dream. We took care of my mother for many many years, and would never leave her alone during the Christmas season.  However she passed away this year from Covid, and our hearts are broken. So this was the year we would go out and spend time with our favorite crew on our favorite yacht for Christmas.

 

Thanks to the hard work of all of the executives at Sea Dream to make this happen!
Alas some stupid people decided to party before they got onto the ship, and have now ruined everything for all of us, including the crew. And some of the crew are infected.

 

I wish that the Sea Dream team would reach out and let us know what we could do to help the crew and show or appreciation.

 

And I really wish there were a way that these people from CA, will be banished from Sea Dream forever more, better yet I’d love to sue them.  I’m sure they were questioned by the Dr or staff as to the protocols they followed before boarding. Did the lie?  I’m sure they did.

 

Well I’m off my soapbox now.  I hope the CA people read this and realize how selfish they were, but I doubt it.  

[jtwind]

What protocol were they supposed to follow?

[cburger100]

Staying away from crowds, ie bars, nightclubs, etc.  Just like the Bajan government required you to stay on property of the regulated hotels, should you go into Barbados pre or post. 

[jtwind]

I don't see where SeaDream had rules for what you can and can't do during several days before your cruise.

[DCGuy64]

I'd be fascinated to know how the OP is "sure" that the passengers lied. Wow, what an unkind thing to assume about someone you've never even met. It's entirely possible that they had no idea they were infected. I guess at the end of the day, you have to choose whether to think the worst about people, or the best.

[cburger100]

According to many of the people on board, this is what they were bragging about.  Partying in Miami.
I’m not quick to judge.  
At the end of the day, AND especially in these time, we expect people that want to travel, to be cautious, courteous and respectful! 

[jtwind]

What was there to lie about?  What were the questions?

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Really, it is very irresponsible to travel anywhere at the moment, except for emergencies, given that the virus is spreading like wildfire, and that safe, effective vaccines are right around the corner.

 

Just get out your 80s boom box, pour your favorite frosty beverage, and get your dang garage clean and organized!  That should be good for three or four months of activity 🙂  Yeah, I’m talk’n to YOU!

[knotheadusc]

I think this was probably bound to happen sooner or later.  However, I also think it's common sense that during a pandemic, it's best to go straight to wherever it is you're going, minimizing contact with other people.

 

We were lucky enough to get to travel to Austria, Italy, and Switzerland back in August.  We noticed that the rules in those countries were more lax than in Germany-- particularly in Austria and Switzerland.  Switzerland was notably very much like life as usual.  No one was wearing masks or anything.  Now, all three countries are locking down as their hospitals are filling up with COVID-19 cases.  We finished our trip just as things were on the upswing.  We were lucky to escape unscathed.

 

I think people are still going to be infected regardless, but it does seem prudent to do whatever you can to avoid risks.  Partying in Miami before a cruise does seem risky to me, although it's understandable that the temptation was hard to resist.  People are starved for fun.

 

Hopefully those who got sick are feeling better now.

[JES4845]

One would think, hope and/or expect that those traveling to SeaDream would respect the integrity of the “bubble” SD worked so hard to maintain.  At a minimum, this would mean waiting until they got safely into the bubble and not party one night on the way.  

 

Thus, it doesn’t matter whether they were asked about it or lied.  What matters is they partied in Miami Friday night prior to flying on to Barbados.  This is an established fact about what happened - they bragged about it to crew and fellow passengers, as has been reported publicly and privately.  

 

Similarly, it doesn’t matter whether they were infected or not; they likely didn’t know.  The first person got sick on Tuesday, which is precisely within the incubation period from a Friday night exposure.  Thank goodness SD started to require masks that Monday and  Barbados required a mid-voyage re-test.  As a result, the quarantine on board started in time to prevent even further spread.

 

I’d like to go back to the suggestion/question from the originator of this thread on how can we help the crew.  As I’ve noted elsewhere, reinforced by today’s NYTimes story, the Philippines has been devastated by two massive typhoons.  We know many SD crew are from the Philippines, but also elsewhere.  I know restaurants that started Go Fund Me drives for employees.  Not sure how to administer something, but maybe SD could start or use the “social fund” that channels group gratuities.  Or each of us can, as we’ve done, reach out directly to crew we know via social media to expedite help to those with immediate needs from the typhoons or otherwise.

[TrapperZimmy]

As I understand it, the Crew Welfare Fund is precisely what something like this is for.  I had thought it was a "social fund," paying for the crew parties, but I learned from a reliable source that crew parties are paid by the Company.  We have always contributed to the Fund while onboard, but perhaps Andreas can let us know how we can do it from home.

[jtwind]

But were there any rules in place for the 3 days leading up to the cruise?

 

A better plan would have been to have everyone quarantine in a dedicated hotel in Barbados for 3 days.  Everyone has their own idea of how to avoid the virus.  A large % of the population still thinks this is a hoax.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I suspect cruise lines will be loath to spend money and risk liability to run half-empty ships for the next few months when they can just hunker down a little longer until the vaccines are distributed.

 

I think seniors are early in the vaccine distribution priority list, and they have pent up funds to cruise.

 

Folks will be surprised at how rapidly the vaccines are going to open up cruising.  Add in the increasing testing and  treatment options, and cruise ships will be good to go in a few short months (with all kinds of vaccination and testing requirements).

 

in the meantime, finish up all those chores and projects you’ve been procrastinating on....

 

[JES4845]

2 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I suspect cruise lines will be loath to spend money and risk liability to run half-empty ships for the next few months when they can just hunker down a little longer until the vaccines are distributed.

 

I think seniors are early in the vaccine distribution priority list, and they have pent up funds to cruise.

 

Folks will be surprised at how rapidly the vaccines are going to open up cruising.  Add in the increasing testing and  treatment options, and cruise ships will be good to go in a few short months (with all kinds of vaccination and testing requirements).

 

in the meantime, finish up all those chores and projects you’ve been procrastinating on....

 

 

Hope you are correct, Dr. Ragnar, but as President Reagan used to say “trust but verify.”  This is much more likely a second half 2021 “back to cruising” timeline.

 

I listened to Dr. Fauci on a webcast this week and read up on the latest as much as possible for a non-doctor to understand.  While seniors (60+? 65+? 70+?) are higher up on the priority list, that isn’t the full story.  Besides, those involved in staffing cruise ships and other aspects of travel connected to a cruise are assuredly not all senior citizens!

 

The rub is that, per Dr. Fauci and other public health experts, around 75 percent-plus of the population needs to get vaccinated to stop community spread of the virus.  That will take time, even if everyone gets the vaccine once it is available to them.  Sadly, around 40% of the population, maybe more, say they won’t get it right away.  And this is just within the USA.  Those outside the USA in the places where the virus is also spreading and where cruises go will likely be well behind us in getting vaccinated.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

I think it unlikely that anyone not vaccinated will be let on a cruise ship from here on.  Just too risky, and very little reward for the cruise lines.  Now that multiple vaccines are on the near horizon, it could be negligent for cruise lines to operate without them.  I’m not a lawyer, but I know how I would vote on a jury...

[JES4845]

2 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

I think it unlikely that anyone not vaccinated will be let on a cruise ship from here on.  Just too risky, and very little reward for the cruise lines.  Now that multiple vaccines are on the near horizon, it could be negligent for cruise lines to operate without them.  I’m not a lawyer, but I know how I would vote on a jury...

 

Precisely ... agree with you for the most actually.  But now plays it out. 

 

While vaccines will START to be available soon, they will ONLY be available SOON for higher priority folks - medical works, first responders, etc.  Cruise lines include lots of crew of various kinds who are not likely to be able to get vaccinated for many months to come if not longer.  Do you think the US Gov is going to vaccinate non-USA crew?  Wish they would and think everyone on the planet should get it, but not realistic.  (Recall the USA pulled out of the WHO and the international vaccine consortium).

 

Even once cruise line crews are vaccinated down the road, what about all the other people one comes into contact with traveling?  While senior citizens will be vaccinated, them traveling encourages and facilitates the travel of others not vaccinated, who then spread it.

 

Just today the CDC is begging people not to gather inside for Thanksgiving with people not already in their day to day household.  And we are worried about cruises?

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

There are currently six limited-approval vaccines available outside the US.  Cruise lines might be able to get these for their crews.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/science/coronavirus-vaccine-tracker.html

 

The high effectiveness of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines should help mute the politically motivated bad-mouthing of the non-US vaccines.

 

Any one else notice how the narrative on vaccines has suddenly changed in the last week or so?  Suddenly they are good and safe and everyone should line up to get them.  The US mainstream media is pathetic.

 

(Sorry for the rant at the end there...)

Edited November 20, 2020 by Ragnar Danneskjold

[JES4845]

Ragnar, don’t always agree with you but respect your right to speak up and courage to say what you think.

 

Narrative on vaccines shifted, if you will, once actual DATA came in from the trials.  As the Pfizer CEO said this week, he didn’t get it until that Sunday afternoon and they announced it before the market opened the next day.  I have a close friend who does these studies for pharmaceutical companies.  There are established protocols and sample sizes etc. that need to be collected and analyzed, which takes time. The companies involved aren’t the ones who made it so political, which resulted in a pre-election backlash among their own employees they couldn’t ignore.

 

We need to see the final data and get it peer reviewed ASAP.  From what I’ve heard from those with far more expertise, it may be that the Pfizer one is better despite the colder storage issue.  (Full disclosure we own a wee bit of Pfizer stock.).   Hopefully Moderna’s is as good and can be manufactured properly in large volumes, but Moderna is relatively newer to vaccines.  J&J may be better or good, we don’t know until their data comes in.

 

My fervent wish would be the vaccines get distributed at the speed of light, but sadly that’s not going to happen.  The non-USA vaccines are likely as good and would for sure be if USA rejoined WHO and shared our knowledge and they did the same for the USA.  Regardless of the vaccine’s source, given that manufacture takes time, it is highly unlikely that any country will prioritize cruise line crews for priority vaccination status.

 

 

[cburger100]

Y’all aren’t answering this “wind” person, who sounds like he/she wants more info on protocol getting on a luxury yacht who is trying Everything They Can to provide a safe sailing.

 

I’ve got ONE thing to say to you!  
 

SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY 

 

bottomline !  
 

These people from CA ruined a great deal of people’s vacations who were acting responsible!  And the crew are suffering too !!! 

[jtwind]

It's very possible that they didn't pick up the virus while partying in Miami.  One of them could have been infected anywhere.  But SeaDream probably should have spelled out their expectations for passengers during the period after the initial test was done.

 

I've spoken with several people who had the impression that if they test negative, they are somehow immune to getting it.

 

These people aren't alone as far as lack of social responsibility.  Just look in the mirror if you are planning to get together with family members living in other households, during Thanksgiving or Christmas.

 

[jtwind]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:09 AM, cburger100 said:

 I’m sure they were questioned by the Dr or staff as to the protocols they followed before boarding. Did the lie?  I’m sure they did.

 

I didn't see questioning as part of boarding on Seadream's site.  Nor did I see a list of actions during the days before boarding that would result in a denial to board.  There was too much faith put in tests that are notoriously inaccurate during the first several days after exposure, in my opinion.

[janerlve]

We had to fill in this form when boarding in Norway in August.

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by janerlve

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Jes4845, nothing new was said in the efficacy announcement about the the safety data, which was established in the phase 2 trial.  Nothing has changed regarding safety from before Nov 3.  But suddenly, the vaccines are safe and everyone is encouraged to get them.  Before Nov 3, the vaccines were “rushed” and Cuomo even advised New Yorkers to wait until after January to get vaccinated.  Now he is crying because Trump called his bluff.   Politics always drives the narrative.

 

Sorry dear moderator, this will be my last rant...

 

[Jim Avery]

Raggy, we all know better.🧛‍♂️
Last rant.....Hahaha

Edited November 20, 2020 by Jim Avery

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Ok, last rant on this topic....