Can Carnival have a few sailings just for those who have been Vaccinated?

[MsTabbyKats]

2 minutes ago, TNcruising02 said:

I've got a cruise booked at the end of April and think it will only sail if they require proof of vaccination.  If it's too soon, I think it will be cancelled.  Just my thoughts.  I booked another cruise for August and will just roll over everything to that cruise if my April cruise is cancelled.  I am fully prepared for it to be cancelled, but remain hopeful that it may sail.

I doubt "everyone" will be vaccinated (remember...2 doses) for your April cruise. 

 

A few weeks ago I was saying that cruising would resume late spring 2021...but with this second wave (thanks to irresponsible people) I'm more inclined to predict 2022. 

 

[Earthworm Jim]

Dumb question: What does 95% effective mean? That any vaccinated person is 5% as likely to contract Covid as a non-vaccinated person, or that 95% of vaccinated people will have 100% immunity and the other 5% do not?

[Cousin Eddie]

22 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

Dumb question: What does 95% effective mean? That any vaccinated person is 5% as likely to contract Covid as a non-vaccinated person, or that 95% of vaccinated people will have 100% immunity and the other 5% do not?

Not a dumb question at all, but it's important to note that the word effective is misused here often in regard to the vaccines. 

 

The vaccine is 95% efficacious. This means that the vaccinated group experience a 94% reduction in the measured endpoint as compared to the placebo group. The primary endpoint for most of these studies was lab-confirmed (PCR) symptomatic covid.

 

The clinical trials measured efficacy not effectiveness. Efficacy in this context means "reduction in disease incidence in a vaccinated group compared to an unvaccinated group under optimal conditions" (McNeil, 2007).

Vaccine effectiveness-ability of vaccine to prevent outcomes of interest in the “real world” (McNeil, 2007).

https://www.who.int/influenza_vaccines_plan/resources/Session4_VEfficacy_VEffectiveness.PDF

The differing words aren't usually important as a lay person but in regards to the virus and vaccine it is important.

Here is an article that explains what this means in regards to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/health/covid-vaccine-95-effective.html

 

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Cousin Eddie said:

Not a dumb question at all, but it's important to note that the word effective is misused here often in regard to the vaccines. 

 

The vaccine is 95% efficacious. This means that the vaccinated group experience a 94% reduction in the measured endpoint as compared to the placebo group. The primary endpoint for most of these studies was lab-confirmed (PCR) symptomatic covid.

AThe clinical trials measured efficacy not effectiveness. Efficacy in this context means "reduction in disease incidence in a vaccinated group compared to an unvaccinated group under optimal conditions" (McNeil, 2007).

Vaccine effectiveness-ability of vaccine to prevent outcomes of interest in the “real world” (McNeil, 2007).

https://www.who.int/influenza_vaccines_plan/resources/Session4_VEfficacy_VEffectiveness.PDF

The differing words aren't usually important as a lay person but in regards to the virus and vaccine it is important.

Here is an article that explains what this means in regards to the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/health/covid-vaccine-95-effective.html

 

A very interesting article, thank you for posting it.

[Purvis1231]

6 hours ago, mouche said:

I agree, the vaccines can't come soon enough, but even then, the vaccine will not prevent us from getting covid-19 and possibly passing it on to others, it will though prevent us from getting sick with the symptoms should we contract it. So that's why mask wearing will still be encourage even after getting the vaccine. So I can't imagine anyone being permitted to board any ship without proof of vaccine, and even then at 95% effective, that still leaves a chance of someone spreading it, positive covid-19 test results and possibly becoming ill. Please don't shoot the messenger, but these are the facts, would I still cruise and use safety precautions, ABSOLUTELY!!! 

What is the point if the vaccine does not prevent the disease?

[BlerkOne]

4 minutes ago, Purvis1231 said:

What is the point if the vaccine does not prevent the disease?

It helps prevent the vaccinated person from developing the disease. It doesn't mean they can't carry it and perhaps spread to others. That's what masks are for.

[BlerkOne]

Just now, BlerkOne said:

It helps prevent the vaccinated person from developing the disease. It doesn't mean they can't carry it and perhaps spread to others. That's what masks are for.

Someone immune to the disease could still harbor some virus.

[Purvis1231]

12 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Someone immune to the disease could still harbor some virus.

Ok, but this is a link to the CDC info on vaccines.

Understanding How Vaccines Work | CDC

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, Purvis1231 said:

Ok, but this is a link to the CDC info on vaccines.

Understanding How Vaccines Work | CDC

 

Ok, now here is how/why.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

 

 

[mouche]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Someone immune to the disease could still harbor some virus.

So true,  but many can’t seem to understand this.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, pe4all said:

Don't be so sure you are immune.  DD had covid at the end of March.  Got tested for antibodies in April, had them, donated plasma.  Traveled to Florida 2 weeks ago.  Got tested in NY (as per our travel restrictions) 4 days after arriving back.  Had covid AND antibody test done.  No covid, NO antibodies!  So somewhere between April (when she was tested and had antibodies) her antibodies "disappeared."  We are hoping there is still some sort of immunity for her that wasn't picked up by the test, but she will still always wear a mask in public, stay socially distanced, and definitely take the vaccine when offered.

The point that the I've had it so I have immunity crowd seems to not take into account is that we are all different. Some may very well get immunity for a long period of time while some may get for a short period of time, and others basically not at all.

 

For those who believe it is always lifetime immunity, examples like you just gave are dismissed as anecdotal. And even though there is no proof of long term immunity since this disease has not been around a long time somehow they take examples from SARS and project that unto this particular virus. And they do this oddly enough by citing anecdotal evidence.

[dallasdan]

17 hours ago, Jobeth66 said:

 

They absolutely can - they can mandate that only people who have been vaccinated can board a cruise.  If you haven't been vaccinated, you can reschedule your cruise to a later date.

 

It's possible that some or many ports of call will require vaccine for visitors as well.

 

It would be the right thing to do, in addition to masks/social distancing/testing for at least the immediate future.  Once we have a vast majority of vaccinations and we see where the virus is going, that would be the time to revisit.

 

Yes, they can mandate that everyone be vaccinated prior to boarding.  However, for most of this year, there will not be enough of the population vaccinated for the cruise lines to operate.  This is why I don't think it will be a requirement at least in the short term.

 

[pe4all]

1 hour ago, dallasdan said:

 

Yes, they can mandate that everyone be vaccinated prior to boarding.  However, for most of this year, there will not be enough of the population vaccinated for the cruise lines to operate.  This is why I don't think it will be a requirement at least in the short term.

 

While I hope they do require a vaccine prior to boarding, will the cruise lines willingly give up the revenue of those who are anti-vaxxers, or who won't get the vaccine for religious or medical reasons?  I don't know what percentage of people will or won't get the vaccine, and I am hoping the majority of people will get it.  There is now a proposed bill here in NY that would require school children to get the covid vaccine.  And in 2019 NY ended the religious vaccine exemption due to a measles outbreak - but that is one state.  Unless all states work together to end this pandemic I am afraid cruising may not begin until Spring or Summer.

[ninjacat123]

15 hours ago, Purvis1231 said:

Ok, but this is a link to the CDC info on vaccines.

Understanding How Vaccines Work | CDC

 

15 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

Ok, now here is how/why.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/health/covid-vaccine-mask.html

 

 

Thank you for posting these links! Very interesting and good to be informed👍

[BlerkOne]

56 minutes ago, pe4all said:

While I hope they do require a vaccine prior to boarding, will the cruise lines willingly give up the revenue of those who are anti-vaxxers, or who won't get the vaccine for religious or medical reasons?  I don't know what percentage of people will or won't get the vaccine, and I am hoping the majority of people will get it.  There is now a proposed bill here in NY that would require school children to get the covid vaccine.  And in 2019 NY ended the religious vaccine exemption due to a measles outbreak - but that is one state.  Unless all states work together to end this pandemic I am afraid cruising may not begin until Spring or Summer.

I'm curious to see if Carnival requires it of crew. That seems to be a logical first step.

[pe4all]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

I'm curious to see if Carnival requires it of crew. That seems to be a logical first step.

Yes, it does seem logical.  Gov Cuomo (NY) just announced on tv that they will have to start a "vaccination education" program, as supposedly only 50% of NYers have said they would take the vaccine.  

[Earthworm Jim]

On 12/10/2020 at 12:50 PM, mouche said:

I agree, the vaccines can't come soon enough, but even then, the vaccine will not prevent us from getting covid-19 and possibly passing it on to others,

 

Is that really the case? My understanding was that they don't yet know whether the vaccine will prevent us from passing Covid on to others, not that it had be determined it definitely will not.

[St.Pete]

9 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Is that really the case? My understanding was that they don't yet know whether the vaccine will prevent us from passing Covid on to others, not that it had be determined it definitely will not.

Nor suddenly do they know if it will have any impact on those over 55.

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, pe4all said:

While I hope they do require a vaccine prior to boarding, will the cruise lines willingly give up the revenue of those who are anti-vaxxers, or who won't get the vaccine for religious or medical reasons?  I don't know what percentage of people will or won't get the vaccine, and I am hoping the majority of people will get it.  There is now a proposed bill here in NY that would require school children to get the covid vaccine.  And in 2019 NY ended the religious vaccine exemption due to a measles outbreak - but that is one state.  Unless all states work together to end this pandemic I am afraid cruising may not begin until Spring or Summer.

Gee, first our Governor was not going to trust the FDA and was going to have his own panel before any vaccine was to be used in NY. And now you say there is a proposal for school children to be required to get the vaccine despite it has not been tested yet on those under 12.

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

Is that really the case? My understanding was that they don't yet know whether the vaccine will prevent us from passing Covid on to others, not that it had be determined it definitely will not.

I think that is accurate.

[BlerkOne]

2 hours ago, St.Pete said:

Nor suddenly do they know if it will have any impact on those over 55.

J&J one shot vaccine has a number of older people in their trial and results from then should be available In a few weeks.

[Butterbean1000]

I worry about how fast they developed and released this vaccine. It usually takes years to develop and test vaccines before releasing a medicine.  How can they know long term effects?  I can see the commercials years from now.."did you have the covid vaccine and did you experience blah, blah and Blah? If so, contact our law firm, Dewey, Cheatum and How". I'm glad for my natural immunity.

 

[TNcruising02]

10 hours ago, Butterbean1000 said:

I worry about how fast they developed and released this vaccine. It usually takes years to develop and test vaccines before releasing a medicine.  How can they know long term effects?  I can see the commercials years from now.."did you have the covid vaccine and did you experience blah, blah and Blah? If so, contact our law firm, Dewey, Cheatum and How". I'm glad for my natural immunity.

 

The alternative is to let the virus continue to rage and for older, high risk people to continue to die.  The good thing about the vaccine is that nobody will be forced to get it and that the people who don't get it will benefit from those who do.  I think it's a good thing and people can decide for themselves.

Edited December 12, 2020 by TNcruising02

[BlerkOne]

13 hours ago, Butterbean1000 said:

. I'm glad for my natural immunity.

 

 

How long will that last?

[Butterbean1000]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

 

How long will that last?

How long will the vaccine last?