If cruise line only "recommends" vaccination and doesn't "require" it, will you cruise?

[Toofarfromthesea]

21 hours ago, clo said:

I haven't seen any attacks.

 

Every single 'yes' answer was challenged in some way, and anti-vaxxer charge is thrown around like politicians throw around the racist charge.  Someone can not take this vaccine without being an anti-vaxxer.  Like the 2/3rds of Socal nurses who get flu shots but who plan to not get the vaccine or delay getting the vaccine, according to a recently released UCLA study.

 

[Toofarfromthesea]

21 hours ago, broberts said:

 

The typical side effects reported would be better described as vaccine-like as they are common to most vaccines. They are in fact signs that one's immune system is responding to the vaccine and learning to create appropriate antibodies.

 

Apparently your comprehension of my sarcasm is equally lacking. I certainly wasn't trying to be funny.

 

"Common Side Effects
The most commonly reported side effects, which typically lasted several days, were pain at the injection site, tiredness, headache, muscle pain, chills, joint pain, and fever. Of note, more people experienced these side effects after the second dose than after the first dose, so it is important for vaccination providers and recipients to expect that there may be some side effects after either dose, but even more so after the second dose."

https://www.fda.gov/emergency-preparedness-and-response/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19/pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine

 

Those side effects sound a lot like some of the symptoms of the virus itself.  

[Toofarfromthesea]

15 hours ago, clo said:

Thanks. It's good to know that people stand by their standards. If they require a vaccination then you won't cruise. Congratulations for your position.

 

See?

Q:  if they recommend but don't require vaccines would you cruise

 

A: Yes

 

Response: then you won't be able to cruise because they will require vaccines.  

This thread is full of that.

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, bigrednole said:

Cruise lines should not allow anti-vaxxers on board. I hope they do make in mandatory along with a everything that has public access: voting, driver's license, etc. After some point in 2021 when the vaccine is readily available, draw the line in the sand. On date XX/XX/XXXX anyone without the vaccine has their voter registration revoked, driver's license canceled, federal insurance on bank accounts, no government aid or social security payments, no medicare/medicaid. Then we will see how fast people go to get their vaccines. 

 

And this is what I was talking about when I referred to people revealing their own nastiness.  Let's bludgeon people into obediance. 

Why stop there?  Why not put them in labor camps.

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Perhaps what will happen is that the industry will, for a while at least, simply boycott the anti-vaxxers —- particularly those who are also anti-maskers.  

 

Are the 2 out of 3 nurses in SoCal who, according to the just released UCLA study, are planning to avoid or delay getting the vaccine "anti-vaxxers"?  

[Toofarfromthesea]

5 hours ago, Markanddonna said:

This is the wisest way to look at it. Even if 99% are vaccinated, our cruise could be detoured and ruined by that one COVID infection.

 

What is the difference between 1% not being vaccinated and the 5-10% for whom the vaccine was not effective?

[cruisemom42]

8 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Those side effects sound a lot like some of the symptoms of the virus itself.  

 

But they are the same symptoms because they are signs of your body mounting a successful immune response against a threat. (In some cases the threat may be the virus itself, in others, a reaction to the vaccination).

 

From vaccines.gov  "What to Expect" (Note -- this is not specific to COVID vaccination):

 

Most people don’t have any serious side effects from vaccines. The most common side effects are usually mild. They include:

• Pain, swelling, or redness where the shot was given
• Mild fever
• Chills
• Feeling tired
• Headache
• Muscle and joint aches

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

 

Do we need that last sentence which only serves to incite posters. Your brethren have just as much right to their opinions as everyone else and there is no need to poke the snake to get more responses here.

But that is the whole point of this thread.

[navybankerteacher]

3 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

 

 

If 100% are vaccinated there is still a 5% or greater chance of infection so if anyone is expecting 100% protection, you will not be cruising, or doing anything else. If the general population has a vaccination rate of, say 70%, I would be comfortable cruising as the incidence probability is low. Certainly the odds are changed by requiring 100% vaccination but some of the posts on here seem to suggest there will be absolute protection. BTW I will get the vaccine as soon as possible after I complete the current study I am in.

Of course the vaccine is not a 100% sure thing  - and a 70% rate would obviously reduce the risk -- but why would cruise lines and very many (if not an overwhelming majority) of their customers want to unnecessarily accept that 30% risk when a 5% risk is attainable?

[Toofarfromthesea]

Just now, cruisemom42 said:

 

But they are the same symptoms because they are signs of your body mounting a successful immune response against a threat. (In some cases the threat may be the virus itself, in others, a reaction to the vaccination).

 

From vaccines.gov  "What to Expect" (Note -- this is not specific to COVID vaccination):

 

Most people don’t have any serious side effects from vaccines. The most common side effects are usually mild. They include:

• Pain, swelling, or redness where the shot was given
• Mild fever
• Chills
• Feeling tired
• Headache
• Muscle and joint aches

 

Most people don't get COVID, and only a small percent of THEM get symptoms.  So the 'most people don't get side effects' argument isn't as strong as you think.  

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 hours ago, GrJ Berkshire said:

RUBBISH!!

They already deny boarding to certain health conditions, it will be commercial suicide not to exclude the anti-vaxx mob. Nobody will sail with these "21st Century Lepers". Get vaccinated or become a hermit, to rejoin society you will have to have it. otherwise no flights, hotels, cruises , restaurants, cinema, theatre, in the future SIMPLE choice................................................................

 

Glad there isn't any attacking people with the 'wrong' answer in this thread.

[navybankerteacher]

7 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Are the 2 out of 3 nurses in SoCal who, according to the just released UCLA study, are planning to avoid or delay getting the vaccine "anti-vaxxers"?  

Another "study"   -- they do seem to crop up at convenient times.  Can you advise whether that "study" was conducted by the UCLA Department of Epidemiology - or by a bunch of frat boys drinking with their older brothers' ID cards?

[SelectSys]

If I did go on a cruise without mandatory vaccination, this story reminds me of why I would certainly get my own before travelling.

 

https://onemileatatime.com/passenger-coronavirus-dies-united-flight/

"Reports suggest that the passenger’s wife initially admitted he was experiencing shortness of breath and a lack of taste and smell, and when talking to EMTs in New Orleans, the wife admitted the man had tested positive for coronavirus"

Edited December 17, 2020 by SelectSys

[Toofarfromthesea]

2 hours ago, broberts said:

 

It will depend on the behavior of other vaccines, but Pfizer is said to provide 100% protection from serious complications. If Moderna and other vaccines provide the same protection there will be little reason that cruising could not go back to the way it was.

 

So if someone gets the Pfizer virus and then gets some symptoms and tests positive on-board it is great if they don't have serious complications.  But the risk to everyone else is there and all of the quarantined at sea, not being allowed to dock in some foreign ports, scenarios could kick in.

So the vaccine protected the person from serious complications but still put everyone else, and the cruise itinerary at risk.

[navybankerteacher]

13 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

What is the difference between 1% not being vaccinated and the 5-10% for whom the vaccine was not effective?

That 1% not being vaccinated might be acceptable - but how would you limit it to 1% ?  if you have no requirement you will have no expectation of compliance.

[Toofarfromthesea]

6 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Another "study"   -- they do seem to crop up at convenient times.  Can you advise whether that "study" was conducted by the UCLA Department of Epidemiology - or by a bunch of frat boys drinking with their older brothers' ID cards?

 

More proof that the result, if not the purpose, of this thread was mocking and attacking.

FYI, the study was done by the UCLA Fielding School of Public Health.

But better to be snide than to know what you are talking about.

[cruisemom42]

17 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

Are the 2 out of 3 nurses in SoCal who, according to the just released UCLA study, are planning to avoid or delay getting the vaccine "anti-vaxxers"?  

 

The information may be "just released" but the survey took place from mid-September through the end of October. Plenty was yet to be known about the efficacy and safety of the vaccines at that time. 🙄

 

Also there is this piece about a nurse in SoCal who originally was opposed and changed her mind after educating herself. The title is literally "First nurse to get COVID-19 vaccine in CA initially didn't want it; here's what changed her mind":

 

https://abc7news.com/first-nurse-to-get-covid-vaccine-person-california-covid-19/8804842/

 

Heads up:  If you are going to quote studies, provide links. 

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

The information may be "just released" but the survey took place from mid-September through the end of October. Plenty was yet to be known about the efficacy and safety of the vaccines at that time. 🙄

 

Also there is this piece about a nurse in SoCal who originally was opposed and changed her mind after educating herself. The title is literally "First nurse to get COVID-19 vaccine in CA initially didn't want it; here's what changed her mind":

 

https://abc7news.com/first-nurse-to-get-covid-vaccine-person-california-covid-19/8804842/

 

Heads up:  If you are going to quote studies, provide links. 

 

I already did, in another thread. And it would take a minute, less for someone as smart as you clearly are, to find the reports of the study, as you did.

[navybankerteacher]

Just now, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

I already did, in another thread. And it would take a minute, less for someone as smart as you clearly are, to find the reports of the study, as you did.

So why did you not disclose how stale the data was?

[cruisemom42]

Just now, Toofarfromthesea said:

I already did, in another thread. And it would take a minute, less for someone as smart as you clearly are, to find the reports of the study, as you did.

 

It's not me being picky, it is common netiquette (and good scientific practice).  If you're going to quote something, give us your source. It's the only way to judge the validity of the claim being made.

[broberts]

2 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

Those side effects sound a lot like some of the symptoms of the virus itself. 

 

An utterly meaningless observation. The fact is that many vaccines produce the same side effects. You could as easily suggest that some people experience typhoid symptoms after a covid vaccination. 

[clo]

4 hours ago, electro said:

And dieing from tobacco is not contagious.

^^^^^

[2wheelin]

4 hours ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

But that is the whole point of this thread.

Says you and apparently one or two others but most of us would rather have an intelligent discussion based on relevant data and current (as in up to date) information.

[pc_load_letter]

On 12/13/2020 at 8:12 PM, sverigecruiser said:

 

It depends on what will happen if there is a Covid case onboard. If that is handled in a satisfying way, I don't know how that is, my answer is yes. If I can go to work and continue with my everyday life without a vaccine I see no reason why I can't cruise but it depends on what happens if there are Covid cases onboard.

 

 

This.

 

But I am not old nor am I in any risk group so I would surely cruise without a vaccine or even if the lines said no vaccine required.

Edited December 17, 2020 by pc_load_letter

[clo]

1 hour ago, 2wheelin said:

Says you and apparently one or two others but most of us would rather have an intelligent discussion based on relevant data and current (as in up to date) information.

Well then, why don't you start one? I was asking people's opinions.