Who thinks they should stop closing borders

[Elorac123]

Just wondered about opinions about the closing of the borders .

Do you think they should keep them open and just get on with it or are you happy to stay with the open and shut.

my vote is keep them open, what is yours

Cheers Carole 

[By The Bay]

Restrict movement into and from RED zones, then the borders can remain open. Victoria might be on to a system that can work. WA is very conservative when applying border closures.

[lyndarra]

Get quarantining of travellers under control first, then open borders and treat any 'spot fires' as they occur.

[Docker123]

Which borders?

 

[Elorac123]

14 minutes ago, Docker123 said:

Which borders?

 

All the borders in Australia

[possum52]

8 minutes ago, Elorac123 said:

All the borders in Australia

Do you mean state borders or international borders Carole?

 

Leigh

[Elorac123]

14 minutes ago, possum52 said:

Do you mean state borders or international borders Carole?

 

Leigh

Was referring to our State borders Leigh.

[NSWP]

Open up all STATE borders, let the Federal Govt take control, the positive covid numbers from community transmission are almost zero and do not warrant closures, impacting on everyone.

 

As for national borders, keep Australia closed, these returning nationals are creating major issues with so many positive covid cases.  There appears to be positive covid cases on many repatriation flights and perhaps normal flights, coming in from overseas. This has to to cease.

 

This AstraZeneca vaccine is alleged to be only 62% effective, not much good. Is the Australian Govt getting this one cheap? We need the Pfizer one, the best.

Edited January 13, 2021 by NSWP

[getting older slowly]

2 hours ago, Elorac123 said:

Just wondered about opinions about the closing of the borders .

Do you think they should keep them open and just get on with it or are you happy to stay with the open and shut.

my vote is keep them open, what is yours

Cheers Carole 

Well Carole... state borders  ..there is the problem 

for all border town... lock down would be area based not state base.....

but to involve everybody ( state and federal governments )

working together for a common goal...... which i believe is stop the spread on Covid-19..

 

But all we have seen is finger pointing, blame, pass the buck... and scoring brownie points...

 

My option ... doesn't matter because i can't see Australia working as one.... which is a real shame

 

Having said that.... if they do close state borders   it can't be a knee jerk reaction....

which causes all the problems they are trying to avoid.....

 

Don...... waiting for common sense.... 

 

[SinbadThePorter]

We've seen that it is possible to effectively eliminate the virus. It's just that the virus keeps escaping the bodgie hotel quarantine system the Feds  pushed onto the states.

 

Get returnees out of the cities into purpose built quarantine facilities outside the cities, as should have been done from the start if the Feds weren't ducking responsibility.

 

Get local transmission down to zero like before Christmas. If outbreaks occur, stomp on them like Vic has already shown works. Don't allow the virus to bubble away for months at a time, undermining the trust people have in being able to work or take holidays safely and randomly popping up in other states.

 

Border closures are not the problem, they are a symptom. There is one state that is happy to have ongoing local transmission for months at a time. The other states, not just Labor states, don't trust it to keep the virus confined. That is what is producing border closures. Given the recent transfer of covid from NSW to Vic, I don't blame them.

[MicCanberra]

IMO, the borders should open and close as required but just to the hot spots or red zones, not the whole state.

[Elorac123]

3 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

IMO, the borders should open and close as required but just to the hot spots or red zones, not the whole state.

Yes this is my preference also

Cheers Carole

[ELep]

I feel that Au should be divided into areas and managed by the feds. So you are not excluded because you live in a state, but because you are in a geographic area that currently has COVID. However, it seems that this is not possible as states are able to manage and act "in the interests of their own state". The premiers of almost all states are having a field day with this and ensuring they are re-elected by spreading fear and telling their constituents "we are taking all precautions and acting in your best interests." This often wins elections. The feds of course are paying for this with JK, JS and some business stimulus in 2020. So the states can enjoy making everyone "feel safe" and placate themselves by knowing that their businesses will be propped up for a while by the feds.  If the premiers do not all get together and start thinking outside their own box I feel that AU as a whole will be paying for this in economic, social and mental health concerns for long after COVID itself disappears. 

 

As for as the elimination aim, I think most states have proved over the past 2-3 months that COVID can escape from quarantine. The states that take the most overseas travelers will then be at greater risk of COVID escaping. As a "Greater Sydney" resident, I am tired of being treated by the rest of the country as a pariah. "Essential workers" live here. Approx. 20% of the AU population lives in Sydney, the next approx. 20% lives in Melb, so given that about 40% of the AU population live, works and pays taxes in Sydney and Melb it would be great if just occasionally others stopped pointing the finger at either Sydney or Melb. 

 

 

 

[NSWP]

Top post ELep, totally agree. The other states are treating NSW and VIC as a joke. We are wearing most of the costs, risks and responsibilities.

 

I have to say this...Anna P in Qld is not handling their hotel quarantine too well, having to move 129 today. Welcome to the real world. NSW and Victoria has had to deal with this for nearly a year.

 

Stand by for sharpened bananas and fourex gold bottles being fired from the north. Lol.

Edited January 13, 2021 by NSWP

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, MicCanberra said:

IMO, the borders should open and close as required but just to the hot spots or red zones, not the whole state.

I agree with that too, as long as the red zones are sensible. It's frustrating being lumped into a huge area like Greater Sydney when the hot spots are more localised.

 

What people forget is the danger period commences before a case is diagnosed so, as Melbourne found out recently, someone from interstate can get infected then go home and spread it almost before the first cases of an are discovered. So border closures can be too late. There is currently some concern about NSW residents who stayed in the Brisbane hotel that is at the centre of the UK variant outbreak and who may have returned to NSW.

[OzKiwiJJ]

33 minutes ago, ELep said:

I feel that Au should be divided into areas and managed by the feds. So you are not excluded because you live in a state, but because you are in a geographic area that currently has COVID. However, it seems that this is not possible as states are able to manage and act "in the interests of their own state". The premiers of almost all states are having a field day with this and ensuring they are re-elected by spreading fear and telling their constituents "we are taking all precautions and acting in your best interests." This often wins elections. The feds of course are paying for this with JK, JS and some business stimulus in 2020. So the states can enjoy making everyone "feel safe" and placate themselves by knowing that their businesses will be propped up for a while by the feds.  If the premiers do not all get together and start thinking outside their own box I feel that AU as a whole will be paying for this in economic, social and mental health concerns for long after COVID itself disappears. 

 

As for as the elimination aim, I think most states have proved over the past 2-3 months that COVID can escape from quarantine. The states that take the most overseas travelers will then be at greater risk of COVID escaping. As a "Greater Sydney" resident, I am tired of being treated by the rest of the country as a pariah. "Essential workers" live here. Approx. 20% of the AU population lives in Sydney, the next approx. 20% lives in Melb, so given that about 40% of the AU population live, works and pays taxes in Sydney and Melb it would be great if just occasionally others stopped pointing the finger at either Sydney or Melb. 

 

 

 

Here! Here! 

 

What really annoys the hell out of me is regional folk whining about how Sydney/Melbourne folk should just stay home, yet who still expect their supermarkets to be fully stocked, ditto stores like Bunnings, and who still buy things online and expect them to be delivered promptly. Who delivers those things? Essential transport workers who most likely live in Sydney or Melbourne. Two outbreaks, so far, have been traced to transport workers - the Casula one in Sydney and one in regional Victoria.

 

Furthermore I bet those people who are whining aren't in the hospitality or restaurant business but would be the first to complain if their local restaurants close down because the local trade isn't sufficient to see them through the whole year. Peak holiday periods are where many restaurants in tourist destinations make their money.

 

*rant over*

[ELep]

1 hour ago, NSWP said:

I have to say this...Anna P in Qld is not handling their hotel quarantine too well, having to move 129 today. Welcome to the real world. NSW and Victoria has had to deal with this for nearly a year.

 

Agree, I already don't like Anna P, so admit I am biased. She looks and sounds to me like the catty Queen Bee school girl who wants to run the school yard. I have serious reservations about how this is being handled in QLD and I am watching with interest. It looks like they did not think it would happen to them, had nothing much prepared and are now panicking. It seems very heartless to put people who have already quarantined back into another 14 days quarantine. Couldn't they go home and be heavily monitored whilst self isolating? After all there is only 129 people that are being moved. Surely QLD can manage the 129 for their last few days at home? A % of those 129 are probably residents of other states anyway. 

 

The first two weeks of this year has descended into a shambles. States looking like they are panicking and making up the rules as they go, including locking out their own residents and requiring them to get a passport style "permit" to come and go from their state. Threatening them with a $5000 fine for turning up without the permit. Instructing people to suddenly drive for many hours and rush home, then sit for hours in the middle of the night on the road without facilities. (what happened to "stop, revive, survive?):. Shutting down for only 3 days whilst they basically worked out what on earth was going on. Lecturing others to just squash COVID whilst taking far less oseas travelers themselves and having a far smaller population over a wider area. (accepted the fire fighting help from NSW anyway) I fear that serious fatigue will set in and next "outbreak" (there will be one) will result in a bit of revolt from the general community in many areas, making it harder to manage the next outbreak at the local level. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by ELep

[ELep]

57 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

Here! Here! 

 

What really annoys the hell out of me is regional folk whining about how Sydney/Melbourne folk should just stay home, yet who still expect their supermarkets to be fully stocked, ditto stores like Bunnings, and who still buy things online and expect them to be delivered promptly. Who delivers those things? Essential transport workers who most likely live in Sydney or Melbourne. Two outbreaks, so far, have been traced to transport workers - the Casula one in Sydney and one in regional Victoria.

 

Furthermore I bet those people who are whining aren't in the hospitality or restaurant business but would be the first to complain if their local restaurants close down because the local trade isn't sufficient to see them through the whole year. Peak holiday periods are where many restaurants in tourist destinations make their money.

 

*rant over*

Yes, well said about the regional folk too. How do they think their essentials get there? And who do they think pours funds into their local businesses for 8 weeks of the year so that they can remain open for the other 44 weeks, available to the locals to enjoy? And of course JK, JS and business stimulus have poured money into their local economies, all paid for by the taxes provided by business and workers in the major cities. 

 

I had a relative in Orange NSW say to me in October "there's plenty of money in Orange, we don't need Sydney money". I was pretty stunned at the short sightedness of the comment. Looked like WA on a smaller scale. He didn't see that city people travelling regionally in NSW with the hope of spreading around some money in the regions after years of drought and then the fires was really needed. Ok, we will keep saving it for cruises 🙂

 

[ELep]

1 hour ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

I agree with that too, as long as the red zones are sensible. It's frustrating being lumped into a huge area like Greater Sydney when the hot spots are more localised.

 

 

Yes, the red zones seem pretty  big. 5m+ people live in Sydney...about 20% of the AU population.

[Roger88]

Closing boarders wont help for many reasons. First and foremost - you cant close ALL the boarders. We live in a global world, we exchange stuff\people\products etc. Secondly, we have already broad it home from other places so it wont make any difference now.. I would rather say let it all happen and then we will deal with consequences

[SinbadThePorter]

2 hours ago, ELep said:

given that about 40% of the AU population live, works and pays taxes in Sydney and Melb it would be great if just occasionally others stopped pointing the finger at either Sydney or Melb. 

 

There has been plenty of finger pointing coming from Gladys and her mates. In fact it would be fair to say they they've been the most consistent and persistent finger pointers. At everyone from WA to Vic, but especially Qld. But rarely SA or Tas for some reason.

 

If Gladys would just shut up for a while about other states and get on with the job of looking after her own state, everyone would be better off.

 

If we want to stop quarantine breakouts in cities, first step is to get quarantine out of the cities.

Edited January 13, 2021 by SinbadThePorter

[MicCanberra]

I am confused by this notion of it having to be one (closed) or the other (open). It has worked reasonably well with lockdowns in the outbreak areas. It may not be perfect but it is better than the other options of just open or closed.

[MicCanberra]

8 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

Closing boarders wont help for many reasons. First and foremost - you cant close ALL the boarders. We live in a global world, we exchange stuff\people\products etc. Secondly, we have already broad it home from other places so it wont make any difference now.. I would rather say let it all happen and then we will deal with consequences

I am confused by this notion of it having to be one (closed) or the other (open). It has worked reasonably well with lockdowns in the outbreak areas. It may not be perfect but it is better than the other options of just open or closed.

 

[Aus Traveller]

22 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

Closing boarders wont help for many reasons. First and foremost - you cant close ALL the boarders. We live in a global world, we exchange stuff\people\products etc. Secondly, we have already broad it home from other places so it wont make any difference now.. I would rather say let it all happen and then we will deal with consequences

Of course closing borders helps, particularly international borders. Within the country, it is a way to keep the virus contained to an area rather than have it spread throughout the country until that particular outbreak is eliminated. That has been happening here in Australia. We don't have to "let it all happen and deal with consequences". The consequences would be dire in both deaths and long term health problems for a percentage of people who 'recover' from COVID.

Edited January 13, 2021 by Aus Traveller

[SinbadThePorter]

Just now, Aus Traveller said:

The consequences would be dire in both deaths and long term health problems for a percentage of people who 'recover' from COVID.

 

What often gets left out is that a let it rip approach would also devastate the economy since people would have no faith that their workplaces, shops, sporting events or holiday spots would safe enough to attend.

 

You can have a government imposed restriction on the economy which gets lifted when the virus is suppressed or you can have a covid imposed restriction on the economy which never gets lifted.