Jump to content

The Future Of The Pride Of America


Recommended Posts

37 minutes ago, Silver Sweethearts said:

The Pride of America is a unique ship in a unique area, but we feel that it being in Hawaii may pose more Covid-19 and associated problems than NCL wants to handle.  Any opinions?? 

If anything the POA is NCL's least problematic ship because it's the only one that can resume cruising its normal itinerary by complying with the laws and regulations of only one country, the USA. 

I've also heard (but I can't prove it) that it may be NCL's most profitable ship, which provides even more incentive to get it back in service as quickly as possible.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, njhorseman said:

If anything the POA is NCL's least problematic ship because it's the only one that can resume cruising its normal itinerary by complying with the laws and regulations of only one country, the USA. 

I've also heard (but I can't prove it) that it may be NCL's most profitable ship, which provides even more incentive to get it back in service as quickly as possible.

We will be curious to hear how NCL/CDC propose to get passengers to Honolulu and through the islands if they have to do multiple timely Covid tests for everyone along the way.  Each island has their own special rules.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Silver Sweethearts said:

We will be curious to hear how NCL/CDC propose to get passengers to Honolulu and through the islands if they have to do multiple timely Covid tests for everyone along the way.  Each island has their own special rules.

Hawaii needs to put a stop to each island setting its own rules and instead have a single testing requirement applicable to everyone arriving in the state.  I can't understand why each island is permitted act as though it's an independent country.

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Hawaii needs to put a stop to each island setting its own rules and instead have a single testing requirement applicable to everyone arriving in the state.  I can't understand why each island is permitted act as though it's an independent country.

And Hawaii allows a transit through Honolulu to other islands on the initial test. That concept can easily expanded to allow transit direct to the ship, and  the stops at other islands, perhaps with an onboard test midway through the cruise.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

And Hawaii allows a transit through Honolulu to other islands on the initial test. That concept can easily expanded to allow transit direct to the ship, and  the stops at other islands, perhaps with an onboard test midway through the cruise.

Hawaii has always been a huge Asian hub of the pacific ocean. I only wish to see it grow and become even bigger. Hawaii is itself a very nice place to stay and do business. I really hope that it will only continue to grow these days 

Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

Hawaii has always been a huge Asian hub of the pacific ocean. I only wish to see it grow and become even bigger. Hawaii is itself a very nice place to stay and do business. I really hope that it will only continue to grow these days 

Just curious,  what do you mean by "huge Asian hub"?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, njhorseman said:

I can't understand why each island is permitted act as though it's an independent country.

The local politics on each island, and in some cases areas of an island, are extremely complex. We're currently sitting on Maui, but on the far side near Hana where very few tourists go except for the one day car ride they take to and from. Frankly, there are some times that we feel very unwelcome here by the locals/native Hawaiians. We have family that live here, which is why were visiting at the moment, that 

 

There is a medium strong independence movement among native Hawaiians (flags and signs on the road are the most visible sign of it), that while unlikely to ever be successful, can barge its way into local mayoral politics and each island has its own mayor. Its a balance of keeping the island open as possible for business/tourism while at the same time, literally not p!ssing off the natives who would prefer the tourists not be there. 

 

Maui is relatively tourist friendly, our current location on it aside, and opened up quickly and is easy to visit. Places like Kauai have a much more conservative approach as demonstrated by their more stringent requirements right now to visit. It's much easier to consider each island like its own state and the state government more like the federal government. I know thats now how it legally is structured but it is the most concise answer to your question. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, philv said:

Isn’t the vaccine going to change all this? If NCL or the islands require a vaccine passport, doesn’t that solve the problem?

The Hawaiian Governor has stated that once vaccinations get fairly widespread, and the CDC publishes guidance on traveling with the vaccine, he will likely remove the testing/quarantine requirement to travel to Hawaii for those who have been vaccinated. He didn't specifically mention cruising, but you can probably extrapolate a bit.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/12/2021 at 10:32 PM, njhorseman said:

I've also heard (but I can't prove it) that it may be NCL's most profitable ship, which provides even more incentive to get it back in service as quickly as possible.

While the POA generates the most revenue of all NCL's ships, it is far from the most profitable, and barely breaks even most quarters.

Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I will say about the POA.  Short of sending her to the scrapyard, NCL won't get rid of her, and she cannot trade anywhere other than Hawaii and retain her PVSA waiver.  NCL won't consider selling her, since anyone who buys her will get the "monopoly" on Hawaii only cruises.

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

she cannot trade anywhere other than Hawaii and retain her PVSA waiver.

She could technically do cruises along the US west coast, no? Not that it would be a good way to deploy her per se-- the yield in Hawaii is most likely much better with her monopoly there-- but she could in theory?

Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, princeton123211 said:

She could technically do cruises along the US west coast, no? Not that it would be a good way to deploy her per se-- the yield in Hawaii is most likely much better with her monopoly there-- but she could in theory?

No.

The law that was passed permitting POA to operate as a US-flagged ship despite not meeting the requirement of being built in the US restricts her cruise operations to the Hawaiian Islands. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, princeton123211 said:

She could technically do cruises along the US west coast, no? Not that it would be a good way to deploy her per se-- the yield in Hawaii is most likely much better with her monopoly there-- but she could in theory?

No, she can only sail in the Hawaiian Islands, or going to/from a shipyard, carrying passengers.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2021 at 8:25 PM, chengkp75 said:

While the POA generates the most revenue of all NCL's ships, it is far from the most profitable, and barely breaks even most quarters.

The only reason she even breaks even is the fact that NCL has no debt to service on the ship. When Ingalls Shipyard was building the ship and went bankrupt, the American taxpayers covered the millions lost. NCL bought the unfinished hull for next to nothing, then had to pay only to complete the project in Germany.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/3/2021 at 7:26 PM, chengkp75 said:

No, she can only sail in the Hawaiian Islands, or going to/from a shipyard, carrying passengers.

I think you answered me about that, quite a while back, in another thread.  Do you know of any site online, where that exception can be read?   I tried, unsuccessfully to find it...

Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, bob brown said:

I think you answered me about that, quite a while back, in another thread.  Do you know of any site online, where that exception can be read?   I tried, unsuccessfully to find it...

Thanks!

We're not chengkp75, but, if you haven't done do already, how about trying Wikipedia about Pride of America?  Not so much the article as possibly the reference notes listed below it.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bob brown said:

I think you answered me about that, quite a while back, in another thread.  Do you know of any site online, where that exception can be read?   I tried, unsuccessfully to find it...

Thanks!

Bob:

My research indicates that the entire deal was done as part of an omnibus appropriations bill in 2003...a common move in Congress to bury things that the sponsor doesn't really want noticed or debated. 

As a result it will be next to impossible to ferret out the exact provisions this far down the road. Even if I could find the right bill it's probably the size of the Oxford English Dictionary.

Edited by njhorseman
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, bob brown said:

I think you answered me about that, quite a while back, in another thread.  Do you know of any site online, where that exception can be read?   I tried, unsuccessfully to find it...

Thanks!

Here is a GAO report on the effects of exemptions to the PVSA, specifically in regards to NCL and the Hawaiian ships.  GAO-04-421:

 

"However, the exemption limits the markets these ships may serve. NCL is required to keep the ships in “regular service” in Hawaii and is restricted from using the exempted vessels for transporting passengers to ports in the Caribbean, the Gulf of Mexico, or Alaska."

 

The exact wording, including the allowance to carry passengers to another US port, when transiting to/from a shipyard, are in the appropriations bill mentioned below.

8 hours ago, Silver Sweethearts said:

We're not chengkp75, but, if you haven't done do already, how about trying Wikipedia about Pride of America?  Not so much the article as possibly the reference notes listed below it.  

Wiki's article is factually incorrect, and the references do not include any reference to the PVSA exemption.

6 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Bob:

My research indicates that the entire deal was done as part of an omnibus appropriations bill in 2003...a common move in Congress to bury things that the sponsor doesn't really want noticed or debated. 

As a result it will be next to impossible to ferret out the exact provisions this far down the road. Even if I could find the right bill it's probably the size of the Oxford English Dictionary.

It is Public Law 108-7, which is 544 pages long.  I found a reference to the exact section some years ago, but don't have it now, and am too lazy to read the whole mess to find it.  If you google the bill, the text is available.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the tip!

 

Found it!...it is on pages 69 and 70 of the PDF document, also referred to as "Division B, Title II, Section 211:

 

SEC. 211. From funds made available from the ‘‘Operations and Training’’ account, not more than $50,000 shall be made available to the Maritime Administration for administrative expenses to oversee the implementation of this section for the purpose of recovering economic and national security benefits to the United States following the default under the construction contract described in section 8109 of the Department of Defense Appropriations Act for Fiscal Year 1998 (Public Law 105–56): Provided, That the owner of any ship documented under the authority of this section shall offset such appropriation through the payment of fees to the Maritime Administration not to exceed the appropriation and that such fees be deposited as an offsetting collection to this appropriation: Provided further, That notwithstanding any other provision of law, one or both ships originally contracted under section 8109 of Public Law 105–56 may be constructed to completion in a shipyard located outside of the United States and the owner thereof (or a related person with respect to that owner) may document 1 or both ships under United States flag with a coastwise endorsement, and notwithstanding any other provision of law, and not later than 2 years after entry into service of the first ship contracted for under section 8109 of Public Law 105–56, that owner (or a related person with respect to that owner) may re-document under United States flag with a coastwise endorsement 1 additional foreign-built cruise ship: Provided further, That: (1) the owner of any cruise ship documented under the authority of this section is a citizen of the United States within the meaning of 46 U.S.C. 12102(a), (2) the foreign-built cruise ship re-documented under the authority of this section meets the eligibility requirements for a certificate of inspection under section 1137(a) of Public Law 104– 324 and applicable international agreements and guidelines referred to in section 1137(a)(2) thereof and the 1992 Amendments to the Safety of Life at Sea Convention of 1974, and that with respect to the re-documented foreign-built cruise ship, any repair, maintenance, alteration, or other preparation necessary to meet such requirements be performed in a United States shipyard, (3) any non-warranty repair, maintenance, or alteration work performed on any ship documented under the authority of this section shall be performed in a United States shipyard unless the Administrator of the Maritime Administration finds that such services are not available in the United States or if an emergency dictates that the ship proceed to a foreign port for such work, (4) any ship documented under the authority of this section shall operate in regular service transporting passengers between or among the islands of Hawaii and shall not transport passengers in revenue service to ports in Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, or the Caribbean Sea, except as part of a voyage to or from a shipyard for ship construction, repair, maintenance, or alteration work, (5) no person, nor any ship operating between or among the islands of Hawaii, shall be entitled to the preference contained in the second proviso of section 8109 of Public Law 105–56, and (6) no cruise ship operating in coastwise trade under the authority of this section or constructed under the authority of this section shall be eligible for a guarantee of financing under title XI of the Merchant Marine Act 1936: Provided further, That any cruise ship to be documented under the authority of this section shall be immediately eligible before documentation of the vessel for the approval contained in section 1136(b) of Public Law 104–324: Provided further, That for purposes of this section the term ‘‘cruise ship’’ means a vessel that is at least 60,000 gross tons and not more than 120,000 gross tons (as measured under chapter 143 of title 46, United States Code) and has berth or stateroom accommodations for at least 1,600 passengers, the term ‘‘one or both ships’’ means collectively the partially completed hull and related components, equipment, and parts of whatever kind acquired pursuant to the construction contract described in section 8109 of Public Law 105–56 and intended to be incorporated into the ships constructed thereto, the term ‘‘related person’’ means with respect to a person: a holding company, subsidiary, or affiliate of such person meeting the citizenship requirements of section 12102(a) of title 46, United States Code, and the term ‘‘regular service’’ means the primary service in which the ship is engaged on an annual basis.

Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading thru all that, I don't think it says the ship could not temporarily be used in other markets, and while it would lose its exemption during that time, it could not return, and reclaim its exempted status...unless I missed something.  Of course, it wouldn't make much sense to leave the Hawaiian market, if it couldn't enjoy US registered status elsewhere...

Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, bob brown said:

After reading thru all that, I don't think it says the ship could not temporarily be used in other markets, and while it would lose its exemption during that time, it could not return, and reclaim its exempted status...unless I missed something.  Of course, it wouldn't make much sense to leave the Hawaiian market, if it couldn't enjoy US registered status elsewhere...

Yes, the ship could leave the Hawaiian market, and do cruises with a foreign port, just like a foreign flag ship, but not a US port only cruise, since the exemption is what allows it to sail in the PVSA trade in the first place.  There might be some wiggle room in the term "regular service", but since they are specifically prohibited from Alaska, that takes out the major alternative route for her.  The Pride of Aloha reverted to the Norwegian Sky and the Pride of Hawaii changed to the Norwegian Jade, and both lost their PVSA exemptions, and cannot reapply for them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Yes, the ship could leave the Hawaiian market, and do cruises with a foreign port, just like a foreign flag ship, but not a US port only cruise, since the exemption is what allows it to sail in the PVSA trade in the first place.  There might be some wiggle room in the term "regular service", but since they are specifically prohibited from Alaska, that takes out the major alternative route for her.  The Pride of Aloha reverted to the Norwegian Sky and the Pride of Hawaii changed to the Norwegian Jade, and both lost their PVSA exemptions, and cannot reapply for them.

Since that "wiggle room", does not specifically rule out US coastwise cruises not in Alaska, the Gulf of Mexico, or the Caribbean, could that mean that it could sail between WA, OR, and CA; or the US Atlantic Coast?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Forum Assistance
      • Q&A with the Quark Expeditions Team: New Ship Ultramarine
      • Register Now for Cruise Critic Live Special Event: Explore the Remote World with Hurtigruten!
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • Canadian Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...