I think ATW 2022 has been canceled...

[WholeNewWorld]

I just jumped on the Oceania website to do a little planning when I noticed my account included a new link.  When you click the link it takes you to the 2023 ATW with the VERY different itinerary.  

 

So either Oceania is pushing 2022 back a year and planning to use 2 boats (highly unlikely) or my 2022 ATW is officially cancelled.   

 

The adult side of me is not surprised, it is probably the right thing to do.  The child side is so sad, so much has been cancelled I was really looking forward to 2022.  

(Also upset because I have/had an owners suite for this cruise!  LOL)

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

35 minutes ago, WholeNewWorld said:

I just jumped on the Oceania website to do a little planning when I noticed my account included a new link.  When you click the link it takes you to the 2023 ATW with the VERY different itinerary.  

 

So either Oceania is pushing 2022 back a year and planning to use 2 boats (highly unlikely) or my 2022 ATW is officially cancelled.   

 

The adult side of me is not surprised, it is probably the right thing to do.  The child side is so sad, so much has been cancelled I was really looking forward to 2022.  

(Also upset because I have/had an owners suite for this cruise!  LOL)

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Only so many cabins are allotted for ATW. Once sold, the multi-segment extended journeys and single cruises are opened for booking. So, while the O website currently shows, at least, the 196 day ATW totally waitlisted, the segments may still have availability. 
We’re booked on the 45 day Cape Town to NYC “extended journey” segments and they’ve been waitlisted since a few days after they opened for booking. I took a quick look at some random other segments in 2022 ATW and there’s cabin availability. 
So, while the ATW and our “extended journey” are totally waitlisted, Insignia’s overall 2022 ATW itinerary has not been cancelled. But, there is little reason for O to try to sell folks on a full 2022 ATW (with its long wait list) when they’ve also got 2023 to fill.

[WholeNewWorld]

 

 

Possible-and I hope you're right.  🤞

[cbb]

"My account" still shows our ATW2022 but it does provide a link to the 2023 for you to see the itinerary and date to sign up. 

 

we were part of the cancelled ATW20 so we were  able to  reserve our cabin on Jan 13 for ATW23; cancelled 2021 will be able to reserve next, (I think) and then it opens up to general public later in Jan.

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by cbb

[Flatbush Flyer]

58 minutes ago, WholeNewWorld said:

 

 

Possible-and I hope you're right.  🤞

No need to hope yet. The 2022 ATW allotted cabins are obviously full as are the most desirable segments (multiple - like our Cape Town-Lima and Lima-NYC). Again, it looks like only some single segments during the 2022 ATW still have available cabins.

[bob brown]

On 1/14/2021 at 6:55 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

Only so many cabins are allotted for ATW. Once sold, the multi-segment extended journeys and single cruises are opened for booking. So, while the O website currently shows, at least, the 196 day ATW totally waitlisted, the segments may still have availability. 

Is there a reason that 'O' limits how many cabins are allotted for ATW?   Is it because they can make more money, by selling segments?   I would think they would love to just sell out an entire ship with ATW passenger's if they could, but not sure...🤔

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, bob brown said:

Is there a reason that 'O' limits how many cabins are allotted for ATW?   Is it because they can make more money, by selling segments?   I would think they would love to just sell out an entire ship with ATW passenger's if they could, but not sure...🤔

One of the OCA addressed this issue during a presentation a couple years back. At that time sales of ATW cruises were actually waning and Oceania could only sell out a portion of the ship. Initially, they don’t hold back any cabins and sell everything they can. However, at some point, to fill the ships, they have to start selling segments. At that point it becomes increasingly difficult to find cabins available for a complete ATW. So they then continue to hold a few cabins open for late ATW sign ups up to some point in time where all cabins are released. This happens around the full payment date.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

One of the OCA addressed this issue during a presentation a couple years back. At that time sales of ATW cruises were actually waning and Oceania could only sell out a portion of the ship. Initially, they don’t hold back any cabins and sell everything they can. However, at some point, to fill the ships, they have to start selling segments. At that point it becomes increasingly difficult to find cabins available for a complete ATW. So they then continue to hold a few cabins open for late ATW sign ups up to some point in time where all cabins are released. This happens around the full payment date.

I’m going to disagree. 
We’ve discussed the ATW vs Segments roll-out with several OCAs and all have said that there is a minimum target of ATW sales and that there is a delay between booking availability for the segments vs the ATW and the length of that delay is associated with the ATW purchases.

In any case, and answering another post above, the total revenue of the segments (if all sold out) would be significantly more than filling the ship with ATW passengers. Though we’ve never done an ATW, we’ve done enough “extended journeys” (including multiple ATW segments in a given year) to have paid for several ATW cruises👀

 

[bob brown]

On 1/16/2021 at 1:34 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

I’m going to disagree. 
We’ve discussed the ATW vs Segments roll-out with several OCAs and all have said that there is a minimum target of ATW sales and that there is a delay between booking availability for the segments vs the ATW and the length of that delay is associated with the ATW purchases.

In any case, and answering another post above, the total revenue of the segments (if all sold out) would be significantly more than filling the ship with ATW passengers. Though we’ve never done an ATW, we’ve done enough “extended journeys” (including multiple ATW segments in a given year) to have paid for several ATW cruises👀

 

So it sounds like Oceania, and perhaps other lines offering ATW cruises, have a dynamically changing quota of how many ATW bookings, and how many segment bookings they may offer on that cruise, following "yield management" algorithm's to maximize the revenue the ship may earn during the period.

Makes sense, I suppose, but I would think it would be 'neat' if a ship was totally booked with ATW on at least one cruise...🙂

[LHT28]

JMO

 I think the 1st RTW cruise offered by O only had 200 pax on the full cruise

2nd RTW had about 300 pax

So maybe in time the RTW cruise  will be fully booked  with pax for the full cruise with closer to the 600+ capacity making the cruise worthwhile  without the segmenters

 

[pinotlover]

The OCA, to whom spoke to our Group, said the issue is some of the segments don’t sell well. While some segments quickly waitlists, others languish under subscribed. Thus they sell all the ATW as possible.

Edited January 19, 2021 by pinotlover

[deadzone1003]

1 hour ago, pinotlover said:

The OCA, to whom spoke to our Group, said the issue is some of the segments don’t sell well. While some segments quickly waitlists, others languish under subscribed. Thus they sell all the ATW as possible.

Unfortunately, the rules of economics still prevails.  The ones that were waitlisted were underpriced while those that languish were overpriced.  Hey, pinotlover, I've been curious all these years.  Is it Pinot Noir that you like or Pinot Grigio or are you an old dude who remembers the Pinot Blancs of his youth? LOL

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, deadzone1003 said:

Unfortunately, the rules of economics still prevails.  The ones that were waitlisted were underpriced while those that languish were overpriced.  Hey, pinotlover, I've been curious all these years.  Is it Pinot Noir that you like or Pinot Grigio or are you an old dude who remembers the Pinot Blancs of his youth? LOL

No , actually the issue was itinerary. There are/ were itineraries that aren’t popular, regardless of price, but still the ship must get between point A and point B. 
 

Pinot Noir specifically, but Pinot Grigio or Gris ( same grape) can be quite nice under the right circumstances.

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 hours ago, deadzone1003 said:

Unfortunately, the rules of economics still prevails.  The ones that were waitlisted were underpriced while those that languish were overpriced.  Hey, pinotlover, I've been curious all these years.  Is it Pinot Noir that you like or Pinot Grigio or are you an old dude who remembers the Pinot Blancs of his youth? LOL

Want Pinot Blanc? Navarro in Philo, CA.

 

As for the economics: if O could fill every ATW segment, there’d be no need for offering the ATW, which costs far less than doing all the individual segments. But, that’s not going to happen since some segments are less desirable than others.

That said, O uses some past performance algorithms to guesstimate an earmark of ATW cabins. As aforementioned, they allot a period of ATW sales with a cabin target and open the segments at a later date.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Flatbush Flyer