Vaccine proof not good enough

[Peachypooh]

I received an unsolicited  call from Norwegian ( from a PCC that is new to me). I am Platinum. There were

two cruises I had put on hold but let expire because things are so up in the air I just didn't

want to commit. Anyway, he more or less asked me why I did this and if he can be of

any help to help me commit. I said that I am waiting to see what the new requirements for

boarding are going to be and also waiting until I am vaccinated. He told me that for now

they are requiring a negative covid test for everyone. I said that if I am vaccinated what do I

need that for? He said that NCL thinks it is easier to require a test rather than a vaccine.

I just said well when the vaccine is good enough I will make my plans. 

[BirdTravels]

When you are vaccinated, the antibodies allow your body to fight off the virus when you catch it. 

[casofilia]

I will not be happy if, when I have had the vaccine, NCL demands I have a test. 

However I am more interested in what the NZ government brings in along the same lines for air travel and the return to NZ after a vacation.

[zdcatc12]

Also, the new US entry rules taking effect in a few weeks do not make an exception for having the vaccine either.

[hallux]

Requiring a negative test will exclude anyone that's had COVID and recovered within the last 3-5 months.  Once you've had the virus you continue to test positive for 3-5 months even though the health department has cleared you to return to work.  I wonder how they'll account for that.

[gizfish]

1 hour ago, hallux said:

Requiring a negative test will exclude anyone that's had COVID and recovered within the last 3-5 months.  Once you've had the virus you continue to test positive for 3-5 months even though the health department has cleared you to return to work.  I wonder how they'll account for that.

I believe you are confusing the antibody test with the actual Covid test.  Antibodies will be positive during and following having been infected with Covid (whether symptomatic or not) for some time.  (The amount of time is not yet known.)  The actual covid test will be positive as long as you have enough viral load for it to register.  In some cases, positives continue after the more common 14 possible days of infectiousness due to the test picking up fragments of Covid RNA.  In those cases, which are not the norm, the person is no longer infective.

[TrumpyNor]

In Europe there is at the moment a huge problem with FAKE negative corona-/covid-19 test, so some countries (Norway among them) in addition require a new test taken at the airport when arriving in Norway and then a new test after 7 days. So a negative covid-19 test alone would NOT let you enter anymore, you still have to go in to quarantine ANYWAY (even if the test taken at the airport was negative, you MAY still be positive - hence the new required test after 7 days).

Edited January 16, 2021 by TrumpyNor

[callmebetty]

I think the problem is that if you have a vaccine, you can still carry the virus and infect those that choose not to vaccinate. I got my first dose last week, but if someone else cruises unvaccinated, I can still carry it home. But by 2022, my loved ones will.be vaccinated so it won't be a moral.issue for me. Not sure what the situation for the non US ports and vaccination is....

[nomad098]

6 minutes ago, gizfish said:

I believe you are confusing the antibody test with the actual Covid test.  Antibodies will be positive during and following having been infected with Covid (whether symptomatic or not) for some time.  (The amount of time is not yet known.)  The actual covid test will be positive as long as you have enough viral load for it to register.  In some cases, positives continue after the more common 14 possible days of infectiousness due to the test picking up fragments of Covid RNA.  In those cases, which are not the norm, the person is no longer infective.

 

Unfortunately there has been many documented cases where a person has recovered from covid and tested positive months later.

We had 1 poor lad from Wales who went out to Italy to help out in there fight with the virus, contracted covid-19 and was required to isolate in a converted hotel until he had 2 negative results it took him 3 months of weekly tests. Whilst in isolation he was talking to an Italian man whilst out on separate balconies and the man told him he had been there for 4 months waiting for a negative test.

The PCR has been shown to produce up to 97% false positives in those who have recovered from covid-19 due how many amplification cycles it goes through, this was proven in a court case in Portugal.

More worryingly is the fact that the quick lateral flow test used in the UK and around the world was shown to produce a higher number of false negatives around 20-25% this increased when the individual was not experienced in administering the test to around 45-50%

 

 

[4774Papa]

10 minutes ago, TrumpyNor said:

In Europe there is at the moment a huge problem with FAKE negative corona-/covid-19 test, so some countries (Norway among them) in addition require a new test taken at the airport when arriving in Norway and then a new test after 5 days. So a negative covid-19 test alone would NOT let you enter anymore, you still have to go in to quarantine ANYWAY (even if the test taken at the airport was negative, you MAY still be positive - hence the new required test after 5 days).

I read that the USA will probably  have an internet site that lists all that have received a COVID19 vaccine.  That would eliminate the fake document problem.

 

 

[TrumpyNor]

1 minute ago, 4774Papa said:

I read that the USA will probably  have an internet site that lists all that have received a COVID19 vaccine.  That would eliminate the fake document problem.

 

 

I think we are talking about two different things here.... 

 

[hallux]

37 minutes ago, gizfish said:

I believe you are confusing the antibody test with the actual Covid test

Just going by what the testing site I was at on Wed. told the person next to me.  That person was there for a test to go back to work (they had tested positive 2 weeks ago), the intake person told them that it was pointless as they could test positive for 3-5 months after recovery.  That site does PCR testing.

[sanger727]

4 hours ago, hallux said:

Just going by what the testing site I was at on Wed. told the person next to me.  That person was there for a test to go back to work (they had tested positive 2 weeks ago), the intake person told them that it was pointless as they could test positive for 3-5 months after recovery.  That site does PCR testing.

 

Yes, this is accurate. You can continue to test positive for months after recovering from covid. I do believe I saw one cruise line that had re-started with negative testing (maybe royal in singapore) that this was a possibility so that you couldn't cruise within so many months of a covid infection. They were not trying to filter out who was actively infected vs who had recovered.

 

As far as the OP, clearly the cruise line will set a standard regulation, like everyone needs a negative covid test. If you are the one who was able to get a vaccine early, so be it. But they would be asking alot of the intake people and creating opportunities for complaints and lawsuits if they started saying who got tested and who didn't. Saying everyone needs a negative test will be better for the CDC to approve sailing and will just be easier to enforce.

 

I would expect that once the vaccine is available to anyone who wants it, the cruise lines will re-visit whether or not a vaccine will be required. And at that point the testing requirement may change.

[HuliHuli]

5 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

I read that the USA will probably  have an internet site that lists all that have received a COVID19 vaccine.  That would eliminate the fake document problem.

 

The thought that the USA would have an internet site with names of individuals and associated health information (vaccination status) that a cruise line could access is antithetical to the concept of patient privacy under the requirements of HIPAA (the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act).  Such information would fall under the definition of "Protected Health Information."  To wit:

 

"Protected Health Information. The Privacy Rule protects all "individually identifiable health information" held or transmitted by a covered entity or its business associate, in any form or media, whether electronic, paper, or oral. The Privacy Rule calls this information "protected health information (PHI)."

“Individually identifiable health information” is information, including demographic data, that relates to:

• the individual’s past, present or future physical or mental health or condition,
• the provision of health care to the individual, or
• the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to the individual,

and that identifies the individual or for which there is a reasonable basis to believe it can be used to identify the individual.  Individually identifiable health information includes many common identifiers (e.g., name, address, birth date, Social Security Number)."

[4774Papa]

10 hours ago, HuliHuli said:

The thought that the USA would have an internet site with names of individuals and associated health information (vaccination status) that a cruise line could access is antithetical to the concept of patient privacy under the requirements of HIPAA (the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act).  Such information would fall under the definition of "Protected Health Information."  To wit:

 

"Protected Health Information. The Privacy Rule protects all "individually identifiable health information" held or transmitted by a covered entity or its business associate, in any form or media, whether electronic, paper, or oral. The Privacy Rule calls this information "protected health information (PHI)."

“Individually identifiable health information” is information, including demographic data, that relates to:

• the individual’s past, present or future physical or mental health or condition,
• the provision of health care to the individual, or
• the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to the individual,

and that identifies the individual or for which there is a reasonable basis to believe it can be used to identify the individual.  Individually identifiable health information includes many common identifiers (e.g., name, address, birth date, Social Security Number)."

Perhaps it would only be assessable by government agencies or common carriers (airlines, cruise lines)?

[CruiseMH]

16 hours ago, callmebetty said:

I think the problem is that if you have a vaccine, you can still carry the virus and infect those that choose not to vaccinate.

thats exactly the point.Vaccinated means only that the virus doesn`t make you ill,But it is strill inside your body and you can pass it to others. A negative PCR-test confirms that you don`t have any(or not enough) virus in your body.

 

[HuliHuli]

2 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Perhaps it would only be assessable [sic] by government agencies or common carriers (airlines, cruise lines)?

I do not want "common carriers (airlines, cruise lines)" having access to my health records and doubt most Americans would accept that.  Presenting proof of vaccination (I provide) is one thing; access to a database of information is a bridge too far.

[4774Papa]

46 minutes ago, HuliHuli said:

I do not want "common carriers (airlines, cruise lines)" having access to my health records and doubt most Americans would accept that.  Presenting proof of vaccination (I provide) is one thing; access to a database of information is a bridge too far.

HuliHuli,

That might be the answer?  A database where the individual accesses their own record, then provides it to the airline or cruise line (perhaps on a smart phone).

[Stealthdog]

3 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Perhaps it would only be assessable by government agencies or common carriers (airlines, cruise lines)?

The best way to get this information is probably through the Chinese government - they pretty much have already stolen almost all personal and medical data about US individuals.

 

Providing health information about US citizens (without their approval) to private businesses would definitely be a violation of national and state laws.

[cheersforbeers]

I would think HIPAA laws would enter here somewhere. 

[hallux]

3 minutes ago, cheersforbeers said:

I would think HIPAA laws would enter here somewhere. 

I guess you missed post 14...

 

Yes, HIPAA is in play.  But that information CAN be provided IF YOU APPROVE of the entity receiving said data.

[BirdTravels]

4 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

Perhaps it would only be assessable by government agencies or common carriers (airlines, cruise lines)?

You want NCL to have access to your health information?  You’ll be getting customized Free at Sea offers based on your medical vindication soon. 

[BirdTravels]

45 minutes ago, 4774Papa said:

HuliHuli,

That might be the answer?  A database where the individual accesses their own record, then provides it to the airline or cruise line (perhaps on a smart phone).

That’s kinda what they do in Hawaii. Once the Hawaiian govt accepts your negative COVID test (which you have to upload to their site), then interview you (online mostly) and update their site. When you go to rent a car or check into a hotel, you need to bring up their approval on the Hawaii govt web site. 
 

The airlines to Hawaii (and soon internationally) just ask for a copy of your negative test results. 

[KeepCalmBearOn]

Your title, "vaccine not good enough" has ZERO to do with what the rep told you. He didn't say or imply a vaccine was not good enough. He said, according to you, that NCL was requiring a negative test and nothing more.

[david_sobe]

Everything changes all the time and we are just entering the peak of the virus in the USA.  However, the mass vaccination program Biden wants to do with the National Guard could make a huge impact by late summer. IMHO I believe a vaccination will be required to board.  Covid tests have several issues.  You can be exposed and able to spread it before testing positive.  They also suggest waiting 4-5 days after exposure before testing.  There are false negatives and false positives.  However, I think the cruise lines are probably going to have a rapid test at the port which could reassure passengers.  Masks will be required until this thing is snuffed out.  If we all work together we can do it.  Sad to read that over 30% of Americans don't want to get the vaccine.