Vaccine proof not good enough

[ace2542]

3 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

That’s kinda what they do in Hawaii. Once the Hawaiian govt accepts your negative COVID test (which you have to upload to their site), then interview you (online mostly) and update their site. When you go to rent a car or check into a hotel, you need to bring up their approval on the Hawaii govt web site. 
 

The airlines to Hawaii (and soon internationally) just ask for a copy of your negative test results. 

What if you are not that technically minded with computers and iphones that kind of thing.

[ace2542]

22 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

Masks will be required until this thing is snuffed out

This will never be snuffed out. It will be here forever and kill 400k americans and 82k brits every year vaccine or no vaccine.

[mrlevin]

4 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

What if you are not that technically minded with computers and iphones that kind of thing.

 

My cleaning lady has neither a smart phone nor a computer (and library is closed so you can't access the computer there); I am trying to figure out a way for her to get in the queue for vaccination; life is hard if you are not connected.

[adam_s_allen]

I don't see the problem here. As others have said pretty sure you could still be a carrier and on top of that the vaccine would have to have 100% efficacy rate to be good enough. 

[4774Papa]

17 minutes ago, david_sobe said:

Everything changes all the time and we are just entering the peak of the virus in the USA.  However, the mass vaccination program Biden wants to do with the National Guard could make a huge impact by late summer. IMHO I believe a vaccination will be required to board.  Covid tests have several issues.  You can be exposed and able to spread it before testing positive.  They also suggest waiting 4-5 days after exposure before testing.  There are false negatives and false positives.  However, I think the cruise lines are probably going to have a rapid test at the port which could reassure passengers.  Masks will be required until this thing is snuffed out.  If we all work together we can do it.  Sad to read that over 30% of Americans don't want to get the vaccine.

According to the CDC, they estimated that by Summer of this year the combination of vaccinated people and those that have had COVID19 would create herd immunity.

https://covid19-projections.com/path-to-herd-immunity/

• We estimate COVID-19 herd immunity (>70% of population immune) will be reached in the US during summer 2021 (Jun-Aug 2021). At a high level, herd immunity is a concept in which a population can be protected from a virus if enough people possess immunity.
• At the time herd immunity is reached, roughly half of the immunity will be achieved through natural infection, and the other half will be achieved through vaccination.

 I don't have a problem with the National Guard helping to vaccinate more people.   The sooner the better.

 

I have read that for people that have had COVID19 that false positives may occur for some time after that.

What does it mean when a patient tests positive after recovering from Covid-19?

While studies are being performed to definitively answer this question, new data are emerging that suggest the period of SARS-CoV-2 infectiousness may not correlate with PCR positivity. In other words, an individual may not be able to infect others for as long as they test positive by PCR. To determine this, researchers have investigated two important questions. First, can the virus be cultured, or grown, from samples that are collected weeks after resolution of a patient’s symptoms but test positive by PCR? And second, do close contacts (e.g., family members, coworkers) of patients with persistently positive PCR tests become sick with Covid-19?

 

For cruising, if we are required to have a COVID-19 test three days prior to boarding the ship and that cruise if from an overseas location, like taking a transatlantic from Europe to the USA, hopefully, the cruise line will arrange for those tests at a convenient location from the embarkation port at a reasonable cost.

 

I have read of some overseas testing sites charging $250 per test.

[Named-Tawny]

2 hours ago, 4774Papa said:

According to the CDC, they estimated that by Summer of this year the combination of vaccinated people and those that have had COVID19 would create herd immunity.

https://covid19-projections.com/path-to-herd-immunity/

• We estimate COVID-19 herd immunity (>70% of population immune) will be reached in the US during summer 2021 (Jun-Aug 2021). At a high level, herd immunity is a concept in which a population can be protected from a virus if enough people possess immunity.
• At the time herd immunity is reached, roughly half of the immunity will be achieved through natural infection, and the other half will be achieved through vaccination.

 

Wow.

If I'm doing my math right, if 70% of the US population will be immune by summer, and 1/2 of that will be through natural infection, then the CDC is estimating that 25% of the US population will have had COVID by summer?

That's what, 110million people?

That's terrifying.

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, Named-Tawny said:

Wow.

If I'm doing my math right, if 70% of the US population will be immune by summer, and 1/2 of that will be through natural infection, then the CDC is estimating that 25% of the US population will have had COVID by summer?

That's what, 110million people?

That's terrifying.

 

Yeah, I'm having a hard time understanding this one too. 

[julig22]

4 hours ago, mrlevin said:

 

My cleaning lady has neither a smart phone nor a computer (and library is closed so you can't access the computer there); I am trying to figure out a way for her to get in the queue for vaccination; life is hard if you are not connected.

Tracfones and kindles/tablets are fairly cheap and can be used for internet at no cost in lots of public places.  You can also pay for data on tracfone as needed.

[adam_s_allen]

2 hours ago, Named-Tawny said:

Wow.

If I'm doing my math right, if 70% of the US population will be immune by summer, and 1/2 of that will be through natural infection, then the CDC is estimating that 25% of the US population will have had COVID by summer?

That's what, 110million people?

That's terrifying.

I wouldn't be surprised if that many people have been exposed to the virus but not caught it. Especially by summer.

[BirdTravels]

5 hours ago, mrlevin said:

 

My cleaning lady has neither a smart phone nor a computer (and library is closed so you can't access the computer there); I am trying to figure out a way for her to get in the queue for vaccination; life is hard if you are not connected.

Do it for her. We are doing it for elderly relatives who are not fully connected. 

[HaveWeMetYet]

2 hours ago, Named-Tawny said:

Wow.

If I'm doing my math right, if 70% of the US population will be immune by summer, and 1/2 of that will be through natural infection, then the CDC is estimating that 25% of the US population will have had COVID by summer?

That's what, 110million people?

That's terrifying.

Disclaimers

• The author is a data scientist and is not an epidemiologist, an immunologist, or a public health expert.
• This writeup has not been peer-reviewed in an academic journal.
• Only publicly available data are used.
• There is a very high amount of uncertainty with any model that makes outlooks for 6-12 months out. 

[BirdTravels]

5 hours ago, ace2542 said:

What if you are not that technically minded with computers and iphones that kind of thing.

You show up and spend time having them (covid police) do it for you. There is a point in the line where anyone without a code on their phone or on paper are sent to the penalty box. 
 

Some people ignore the multiple admonishments to have your code out, then get upset when they lose their place in line. Multiple cases where mom and the kids are waiting while dad is in the penalty box digging through his backpack looking for his phone. 
 

Don’t know what happens at the car rental or hotel if you can’t show your status. Technically, the car rental is suppose to refuse you service and the hotel is supposed to lock you in your room for 10 days. 

[4774Papa]

https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=5822&et_cid=3395159&et_rid=17221689&et_referrer=Boards

 

Article on vaccine passports

[ziggyuk]

 

20 hours ago, mrlevin said:

 

My cleaning lady has neither a smart phone nor a computer (and library is closed so you can't access the computer there); I am trying to figure out a way for her to get in the queue for vaccination; life is hard if you are not connected.

My neighbour is not connected, I do his home insurance, his car insurance, phone, natural gas and electric, since Covid that has all been done over the phone.

[CruiseMH]

18 hours ago, Named-Tawny said:

 that 25% of the US population will have had COVID by summer?

That's what, 110million people?

That's terrifying.

25% of the population (334 Million) would be roughly 84 Million people.

At the moment there are 23,6 Million reported cases during the last 12 months.If you add another 6 months it would be maybe 30-35 million cases. And if you then keep in mind that only a part of the real cases gets reported then this figure of 25% of the population seems to be realistic.

[sprint180]

On 1/16/2021 at 12:15 PM, casofilia said:

I will not be happy if, when I have had the vaccine, NCL demands I have a test. 

However I am more interested in what the NZ government brings in along the same lines for air travel and the return to NZ after a vacation.

From what I have read the vaccine does not stop you from getting or giving the virus it does help the symptoms from being as bad.  That is just what I read, I would say the test would be better.  Just my opinion.

[sanger727]

6 hours ago, CruiseMH said:

25% of the population (334 Million) would be roughly 84 Million people.

At the moment there are 23,6 Million reported cases during the last 12 months.If you add another 6 months it would be maybe 30-35 million cases. And if you then keep in mind that only a part of the real cases gets reported then this figure of 25% of the population seems to be realistic.

 

25% more of the US population would have to catch it in the next 6 months. For 70% to have "immunity" and only half of it to come from the vaccine means 35% of the US would need to have caught it. So far less than 10% has, so to jump from 10% to 35% in 6 months does sound a bit outrageous. 

[hallux]

20 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

so to jump from 10% to 35% in 6 months does sound a bit outrageous.

With the more contagious strain circulating, it's possible... 

[sanger727]

38 minutes ago, hallux said:

With the more contagious strain circulating, it's possible... 

 

I still hope not. 24 million infections have lead to 400,000 deaths. 35% of the US population is around 120 million - so 2 millions deaths....

[pghflyer]

Yeah, all this makes booking anything in the next 12-months very difficult. Especially considering the prices are still higher than most cruises I have ever taken, so no risk/ price benefit.

 

I can be pretty sure of being vaccinated by July/ August.....but I don't want to have to do a bunch of COVID tests to enter/ leave home and ports if I have been vaccinated, and also still not thrilled with the prospect of rocking these masks for long overseas flights and out in every public area.  Don't get me wrong, I think these are critical and important now, but once vaccinated, I don't want to have to revert back to these pre-vaccine precautions. 

[latebloomer56]

On 1/17/2021 at 3:33 PM, david_sobe said:

Everything changes all the time and we are just entering the peak of the virus in the USA.  However, the mass vaccination program Biden wants to do with the National Guard could make a huge impact by late summer. IMHO I believe a vaccination will be required to board.  Covid tests have several issues.  You can be exposed and able to spread it before testing positive.  They also suggest waiting 4-5 days after exposure before testing.  There are false negatives and false positives.  However, I think the cruise lines are probably going to have a rapid test at the port which could reassure passengers.  Masks will be required until this thing is snuffed out.  If we all work together we can do it.  Sad to read that over 30% of Americans don't want to get the vaccine.

I'm one of those who doesn't want to be vaccinated, I will however for my family, but not through the government not a chance. I wear my mask in public, keep my distance, and through always washed my hands (who knew some people didn't) wash more often now. I will wear a mask onboard if required. I just want to safely sail with our grown sons and grandson while we still can. I miss sailing almost as much as hugs :(.

Everybody keep posting these tidbit are interesting. Stay safe.

 

[CruiseMH]

20 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

25% more of the US population would have to catch it in the next 6 months. For 70% to have "immunity" and only half of it to come from the vaccine means 35% of the US would need to have caught it. So far less than 10% has, so to jump from 10% to 35% in 6 months does sound a bit outrageous. 

Ok,25% within the next 6 months is definitely unrealistic.

[david_sobe]

5 hours ago, latebloomer56 said:

I'm one of those who doesn't want to be vaccinated, I will however for my family, but not through the government not a chance. I wear my mask in public, keep my distance, and through always washed my hands (who knew some people didn't) wash more often now. I will wear a mask onboard if required. I just want to safely sail with our grown sons and grandson while we still can. I miss sailing almost as much as hugs :(.

Everybody keep posting these tidbit are interesting. Stay safe.

 

You are free to live your life as you wish. However, I doubt any cruise line will allow passengers to board without proof of a vaccine. They have been through enough already.  I feel for you to see a vaccine in political terms.  I remember the good ole days when no children were allowed in public schools without their vaccinations. I remember I had all of my vaccinations except the mumps.  My mother got the notice that I did not get vaccinated for the mumps, I would not be allowed in school.  Guess what?  I got vaccinated for the mumps.  Vaccines save lives.  Look how they have snuffed out Polio, Measles, Mumps, small pox, etc.  This Covid vaccine is so simple and nothing experimental.  Injecting dead virus into your body so your immune system can build up immunity just like so many other viruses.  It has always been the government that has had to nudge people to get vaccinated.  It used to be radical left tree huggers that were anti-vaccines.  But now its an alt right because they believe acknowledging a virus or wearing a mask is a sign of weakness.  Very sad.  You don't do it just for your family but your fellow human beings.

[david_sobe]

Just now, david_sobe said:

You are free to live your life as you wish. However, I doubt any cruise line will allow passengers to board without proof of a vaccine. They have been through enough already.  I feel for you to see a vaccine in political terms.  I remember the good ole days when no children were allowed in public schools without their vaccinations. I remember I had all of my vaccinations except the mumps.  My mother got the notice that I did not get vaccinated for the mumps, I would not be allowed in school.  Guess what?  I got vaccinated for the mumps.  Vaccines save lives.  Look how they have snuffed out Polio, Measles, Mumps, small pox, etc.  This Covid vaccine is so simple and nothing experimental.  Injecting dead virus into your body so your immune system can build up immunity just like so many other virus vaccines.  It has always been the government that has had to nudge people to get vaccinated.  It used to be radical left tree huggers that were anti-vaccines.  But now its an alt right because they believe acknowledging a virus or wearing a mask is a sign of weakness.  Very sad.  You don't do it just for your family but your fellow human beings.

 

[ReneeFLL]

On 1/17/2021 at 3:56 PM, ace2542 said:

This will never be snuffed out. It will be here forever and kill 400k americans and 82k brits every year vaccine or no vaccine.

And how do you know those numbers? Funny all the stuff you pull out of thin air. 🙄  It’s laughable. 

Edited January 20, 2021 by ReneeFLL