The Elbe river 2021 - not just water levels

[notamermaid]

Here is the thread on the Elbe river for 2021.

 

The river, notorious in its upper reaches for low water in recent years, actually had a good year for sailing in 2020. Join us again this year with comments and tips. Hopefully 2021 will be a good one with plenty of water - but not too much - in the Elbe, from Prague all the way to Hamburg.

 

Safe travels.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

I wrote in my previous post "from Prague all the way to Hamburg". Now that is of course a bit generalized and I should say the Vltava river and the Elbe river. The Vlatava is close to the Danube with its upper valley, they are only separated by the middle mountain range of the Bavarian Forest (when looking at Germany) so as the crow flies it is only around 50km from Passau to the source of the Vlatava. The river even gets a little bit of its water from Germany. The upper valley is not navigable for ships of course, but boats can sail on a stretch close to Prague and from Prague river cruise ships sail the river to its confluence with the Elbe at Melnik.

 

Who sails into or from Prague? 1AVista Reisen using the CroisiEurope ships, CroisiEurope, NickoCruises, Plantours. If you find more - tell us.

 

Anyone else sailing the Vltava river but not as far as Prague? I could not find any.

 

Viking river cruises sail the Elbe as far upstream as Decin in the Czech Republic and then transfer by coach to Prague.

 

notamermaid

 

[AnhaltER1960]

Thank you @notamermaidfor opening the 2021-Elbe thread. Let us hope, it will not turn out to be a short one. With the German-Czech border closed by the German authorities for all but really necessary travel it looks like a very slow start into the season. I found a German company, Plantours, with the vessel MS Sans Souci planning Dresden - Prague - Dresden on starting April 1st (no joke). Though I doubt this will happen.

Viking have already suspended their sailings until May 31st.

[notamermaid]

Looks like Plantours will be the company to start the season then. CroisiEurope is due to start at the end of April.

 

I do hope that Plantours can start as planned but, like you, I have my doubts.

 

As regards water levels, the Elbe is in a good position right now, if the rain and snow melt are timed well, i.e. nature grants us this, the level should be good for early Spring sailings.

 

notamermaid

 

[AnhaltER1960]

Viking seem to anticipate low water levels in summer.... as they introduced an alternative Elbe programme in July through September called "Cities on the Elbe". Their standard itinerary "Elegant Elbe", which is a bus tour Berlin to Wittenberg, river cruise Wittenberg - Dresden - Decin and again bus Decin to Prague is offered March - May and again from October, some late cruises in the year offered as "Christmas along the Elbe".

However, from July to September the new programme "Cities on the Elbe" reads like a bus tour all the way, the ships berthed in Wittenberg and Dresden and used as boatels only. Just one day of cruising is planned out of Dresden into Saxon Switzerland and back. Obviously the answer of the Viking controllers to the 2018/19 seasons, when they had to do exactly this due to low water levels and having all the dispute with disappointed customers. Now they dont even promise to sail ....

If you want to sail the Elbe, avoid Viking in the months of July, August and September.

[notamermaid]

I noticed the difference between the two itineraries and did not read enough of the description or the dates to figure out the puzzling resemblances to city hopping in Cities on the Elbe. I cannot get my head round this. Could they really be offering this kind of "cruise" in Summer? The route map suggests so.

 

notamermaid

 

[BluebonnetTexan]

I can confirm that Viking’s “Cities on the Elbe” is now a non-cruise using the ships as boatels. We had booked Elegant Elbe in 2019 for July 2020. Later we were notified of the change (and given an additional discount). We kept it booked as part of a bigger vacation plan we had, but of course none of it came to fruition. If we decide in the future to book that trip again, we will go on dates when they are planning to actually cruise. 

[notamermaid]

17 hours ago, AnhaltER1960 said:

However, from July to September the new programme "Cities on the Elbe" reads like a bus tour all the way, the ships berthed in Wittenberg and Dresden and used as boatels only.

It is so unusual, I really checked this twice. And now it is indeed confirmed that 2021 is not the first year Viking is offering this! It was planned for 2020 already. Thank you @BluebonnetTexan for informing us of this. As I understand you, you cancelled your booking and did not go for future cruise credit?

 

Astounding idea... I would rather not go in Summer at all than stay on a boatel.

 

Now, boatel is not a new word but I learned it in the thread of 2019. I have reread both the 2019 and 2020 to a great extend - which sadly did not take long. The have some information in them that could prove very interesting and helpful IMHO if you are in the planning stages of a river cruise on the Elbe. So here they are: https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2629488-the-elbe-river-2019-not-just-water-levels/

 

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2721659-the-elbe-river-2020-not-just-water-levels/

 

notamermaid

 

[BluebonnetTexan]

We were going to connect the Elbe cruise to the Passage to Eastern Europe cruise (DIY) and go to Oberammergau (DIY). We took the FCC (125%) for the combined cruises and decided to apply it towards a 3-week Adriatic & Mediterranean Viking Ocean cruise in May 2022. Hopefully that will be far enough out that the world will be somewhat back to normal by then. We are looking at a DIY Oberammergau trip also in 2022 and focus on southern Germany, so totally rethinking our original plans from 2020. In hindsight, I wish I'd taken the refund and invested it - who'd have thought the US stock market would rebound like it has? But a 25% return looked good at the time! And we have a cruise booked to look forward to if Viking can remain in business that long! So doesn't do any good to second guess myself now. Life is full of risks. 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, BluebonnetTexan said:

We were going to connect the Elbe cruise to the Passage to Eastern Europe cruise (DIY) and go to Oberammergau (DIY).

That should have been an amazing trip.Thankfully, you have the chance to see Oberammergau in 2022, which you say you are already looking into doing.

 

The river cruise that does not go, that is called Elegant Elbe, one could forget that and switch to CroisiEurope for a Summer cruise? No, does not work. This year both paddle wheelers do not sail that itinerary in Summer either, from what I could see. It is not bookable on the German market and is not offered through the American website either. Neither does the French website feature Summer sailings.

 

notamermaid

 

[BluebonnetTexan]

@notamermaidYes, it would have been an amazing trip. We had it meticulously planned! Planes, trains, automobiles, and riverboats! 😉 

I'll continue following this thread closely to see how the river runs this year in hopes of planning it again in the future for optimal water levels (which of course you never truly know, but I'll take my chances with averages). 

Thanks for all the great info you provide on all the rivers in Germany! 

[AnhaltER1960]

March, April and early May had been a safe bet even in dry years.

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, AnhaltER1960 said:

March, April and early May had been a safe bet even in dry years.

I do hope it continues that way. Downstream from Magdeburg the situation is of course a bit better in dry years, not always mind you, but seeing that European lines do the downstream route from Magdeburg makes me wonder why Viking will not go for that? Something logistical? Contractual obligations with whomever? Dresden too great an allure?

 

As I still have the German catalogue of CroisiEurope for 2020 I had a look at the Elbe itinerary. Last year there were also no sailings offered in the Summer months on the paddlewheelers to and from Prague. So CroisiEurope had also adapted last year (if not even before then).

 

The only ship I could find that sails to Prague in Summer is the MS Frederic Chopin. Nickocruises offers several sailings of her in Juni, July and August.

 

notamermaid

 

[AnhaltER1960]

Sailing the Elbe downstream from Magdeburg

 

It is not easier sailing downstream from Magdeburg in dry years. There are some very shallow or narrow parts in and downstream from Magdeburg. Plenty of sediment and slow flux, there are only 43 m difference between Magdeburg and sea level, on more than 300 km.

Unlike Czechoslowakia, East Germany did not much to boost sailing the Elbe. And at the parts, where the Elbe was innergerman border, of course nothing happened at all. There is an alternative between Magdeburg and Hamburg, using the Mittelland canal and the Elbe-Side-Canal. Even shorter than the river, fright traffic usually uses that (also Croisieurope on some tours, if I remember correctly), thus there is no pressure from freighters to do dredging in the Elbe.

So, sailing the Elbe downstream from Magdeburg is even riskier than upstream. Yes, sure, cities like Wittenberg and Dresden are more attractive (or at least marketable) than Magdeburg or Hitzacker.

 

Sailing in Summer

Apparently the controllers or even the insurers of CroisiEurope learnt the same lessons than Viking from the disastrous years 2018/2019. Croisi sailed in summer 2019, well they tried to ... Ten, fifteen years ago it was an exception that the Elbe was not navigable for low water, now that becomes more and more regular, and this hits even the cruiseships, which were designed for low draft (only 80 to 90 centimeters).

Maybe too early to call, but a longer lasting trend, that the whole region getting less rainfall, sounds like some greeting from climate change.

[notamermaid]

Thanks for the correction and clarification about sailing downstream. I should have mentioned that the canal is used very much instead of the Elbe proper. Around Magdeburg is the worst part it seems, after that downstream, well, depends on which it is river or canal, then Geesthacht has the lock, but the effect does not extend far enough upstream. And there appears a lot of resistance to changes to the river from an environmental point. Not so much resistance on the Rhine it being th most important waterway. After Geesthacht, Hamburg is quite close but one could even go further to Kiel from there. As I have mentioned before, German river cruises do so.

 

I would agree that for an international audience it is easier to put a programme airport to airport together, i.e. Viking's Berlin to Prague and the river itself is more spectacular upstream towards Dresden and beyond. The footage I have seen is stunning. Not easy to impress me in Germany, having been to numerous mountains and the Rhine and Saar valleys.  

 

I would assume that increasing the guaranteed depth of the channel at Magdeburg could be helpful but then there is the Havel Canal as an alternative to cut out Magdeburg from Potsdam. Not sure of the geography, is that via Genthin and who uses it?

 

I linked to the 2019 thread, you know the boatel and non-cruises... Unfortunately, in 2018 it was so bad that even CroisiEurope had a terrible time, I had talked to a representative of the German agent. But river cruise companies not being so talkative about this I heard nothing specific about 2019.

 

I have my doubts about the Nickocruises in Summer, will follow them on the map to see if they sail.

 

Climate change perhaps. At least two companies had abandoned the idea of sailing the Elbe at all a few years ago. I wonder if more will decide to at least partly give up. Switching to stationery ship with excursion - something that the river excursion boats should get the money for anyway, paddlesteamers are engineering heaven! - can surely not be a good alternative!?

 

Again thank you for the great details from your river.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Plantours with the MS Sans Souci were due to start the season as @AnhaltER1960 has mentioned but while they may still be the first back on the river it is now confirmed on their website that the first sailing has been cancelled. The first one on the Oder with Plantours has also fallen victim to the extended lock down in Germany.

 

What a pity.

 

notamermaid 

 

[dogs4fun]

It is a pity that low water levels often make cruising the Elbe impossible. I had wondered why there were so few Elbe cruises (thinking mostly Viking which had, in the past, offered Elbe cruises). I have never cruised the Elbe - I have visited only by land and find the natural beauty of the area unbelievable. Among others, I loved visiting Saxon Switzerland National Park (totally blown away by the incredible natural beauty), Dresden, Bad Schandau, Meissen & Wittenberg (there are simply too many charming & historic places to list). I look forward to visiting again in the future when international travel is once again a possibility.

[notamermaid]

We know now that the season on the Elbe is not going to start before April, but let us have a look at the water level anyway to see what is happening. This is Dresden:

 

 

The level is at 209cm, which is very good for sailing. However, as you can see it is on a downward trend. A look at the weather report for the Elbe area of the Czech Republic and Saxony reveals that rain and even some snow are forecast for most of the coming week, so the downward trend will stop as early as tomorrow and we may already see a slight rise again from later on Tuesday.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Let us return briefly to the Elbe. It is not looking good for a restart on the 18th of April as regards the lock down easing, but the river levels are good. Dresden is at 149cm and it has been raining. The forecast shows a rise across the border in the Czech Republic and subsequently in Dresden which will bring the level back over 160cm on the 14th. Good news for the rest of the month? Tentatively yes, we will see. Not much rain is forecast, but the temperatures will stay cool - quite cool for mid-April, with mild frost at night.

 

notamermaid

 

[gnome12]

Is it going to be another year of decent water levels but no sailing on the river due to Covid?

 

[notamermaid]

2 minutes ago, gnome12 said:

Is it going to be another year of decent water levels but no sailing on the river due to Covid?

 

That thought can certainly cross one's mind. For German river cruisers it will work eventually but will Viking return for the Autumn cruises?

 

notamermaid

 

[AnhaltER1960]

On 4/12/2021 at 10:21 PM, gnome12 said:

Is it going to be another year of decent water levels but no sailing on the river due to Covid?

 

I tend to answer "yes". The water levels are still quite healthy and it keeps raining upriver. So no problems from this side.

 

The federal states of Saxony and Saxony-Anhalt lifted their ban on river cruises recently with the lover covid-infection figures, so at least in Germany Elbe cruises are possible again. But of course no one was able to plan in advance across two countries, Germany and Czech Republic, let alone international travel. I still do not see Elbe cruises announced by Viking or Croisieurope until September. Viking have planned the bus variation "Cities along the Elbe" anyway  until September and Croisi have announced a sailing in October.

[CPT Trips]

We did a non-cruise cruise on a Berlin - Prague itinerary. The towns we visited along the Elbe made it a very worthwhile trip despite there being additional time on a bus. Spending two, or it may have been three, nights in Dresden really added to our experience. Our hotel was directly across the river from “The Front Porch of Europe.” Just spectacular. At both day and night.

 

During the PEGIDA (?) anti immigration demonstration the building lighting was turned off. It was a strange time.

[dogs4fun]

On 6/10/2021 at 11:08 AM, CPT Trips said:

Our hotel was directly across the river from “The Front Porch of Europe.”

I love Dresden's Elbe promenade. Do you mind sharing at which hotel you stayed?

 

On 6/10/2021 at 11:08 AM, CPT Trips said:

We did a non-cruise cruise on a Berlin - Prague itinerary.

I much prefer independent land trips to river cruises - I can immerse myself in the "vibe" of places that most interest me and, most especially, feed my interest in Classical Roman/Greek history and my love of classical music. River cruises are enjoyable in that they are a great introduction to places that I may wish to visit & explore in depth in the future.

Have you visited Krakow? It reminds me of Prague but it is not yet on serious steroids like Prague.😉

Edited June 13, 2021 by dogs4fun

[CPT Trips]

I’m almost 100% certain that we were at the Maritime in Dresden; never been to Krakow.
 

We’re at the point in our lives where arranging hotels, intercity transportation, and other basic logistics are no longer fun. The comfort and security provided by a river cruise, small ship cruise tour, or a small group guided tour to an area I’m not familiar with makes travel enjoyable to us.
 

I enjoy researching the destinations and getting out and exploring on our own. We miss many a lunch on board so that we can have more time in a museum, seeing a nearby town (sometimes overnight), or just wandering. We find Grand Circle Travel/Overseas Adventure Travel provide tours and cruises that are,a,good fit for us. We’re well past the time of pulling into a town to look for a small pension, gasthaus, or fremdenzimmer.