Semester at Sea

[shipgeeks]

Have any of you ever been on a Semester at Sea voyage, either as faculty, staff, or student?

Care to share any stories?

 

[Heidi13]

20 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

Have any of you ever been on a Semester at Sea voyage, either as faculty, staff, or student?

Care to share any stories?

 

 

P&O used to have 2 ships for "Educational Cruises" - Nevasa and Uganda. I spent 3 months on Uganda where we had about 300 adult pax and 1,000 kids. They had lessons, entertainment and sports on board.

 

The adults included the teachers who came with the kids.

 

Each cruise lasted about 2 weeks, with a tour included in each port.

[shipgeeks]

Semester at Sea voyages are around 100 days long, and take the place of one semester of university studies, with an emphasis on in-depth studies of the areas visited.  I believe they usually completed roughly half of a circumnavigation of the globe.

[Zach1213]

My wife did it while she was in university, mid-2000s (I think 2006, fall semester). I think the details were San Diego to Fort Lauderdale via Mexico, Hawaii, Japan, China, Vietnam Myanmar, India, Suez Canal/Egypt, Istanbul, and some places in southern Europe. She has good memories of it - classroom portions were fine, but of course the real learning (both academic and life) happened on land. I have no idea what ship it was or anything like that, but she said it wasn't too bad and wasn't too great - accommodations, food, etc. were all "fine, but not special". 

[navybankerteacher]

When you get right down to it, the semester at sea is kind of a waste of time, money and academic capacity.  Sure - there is a learning experience - but that sort of blend results in a second rate cruise experience combined with a second rate academic semester.  Very few (any?) of the participants do not have to take extra courses when back on campus - or even have to take an extra semester to graduate.

 

It's sort of like the peanut butter and clam sandwich my boys invented:  not all new ideas are good ones.

[Zach1213]

21 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

When you get right down to it, the semester at sea is kind of a waste of time, money and academic capacity.  Sure - there is a learning experience - but that sort of blend results in a second rate cruise experience combined with a second rate academic semester.  Very few (any?) of the participants do not have to take extra courses when back on campus - or even have to take an extra semester to graduate.

 

It's sort of like the peanut butter and clam sandwich my boys invented:  not all new ideas are good ones.

 

I'll share my thoughts, and that of my wife, since she did a Semester At Sea. She found it extremely worth her time and money, and a huge learning experience. She did take five years to graduate, but that was with a dual BA in French and Economics, and she felt the learning experience of Semester At Sea would have been well worth some extra time on campus, even if she did need to do that (which she didn't). She's now working on a PhD in International and Development Economics, and owes a lot of that international passion to the travel she did during Semester At Sea (especially to developing places like India and Myanmar), as she had never really traveled before that. 

[neverbeenhere]

 If you are talking deep fried razor clams and creamy peanut butter without sugar on a crusty sourdough, I'm thinking it might be okay. At least I'd try it.

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 2/15/2021 at 3:52 PM, navybankerteacher said:

When you get right down to it, the semester at sea is kind of a waste of time, money and academic capacity.  Sure - there is a learning experience - but that sort of blend results in a second rate cruise experience combined with a second rate academic semester.  Very few (any?) of the participants do not have to take extra courses when back on campus - or even have to take an extra semester to graduate.

 

It's sort of like the peanut butter and clam sandwich my boys invented:  not all new ideas are good ones.

There are vast differences in what might generally be referred to as a “semester-at-sea.”

And much of that difference depends on the type of institution, nature of the subject matter (including its relationship to the marine/maritime environment) and quality of instruction.

 

I doubt that anyone would disagree that the “sea time” requirements (including carefully crafted summer long itineraries on US training ships) maintained by America’s several maritime academies (e.g., the California State University’s Maritime Academy in Northern California) are necessary  “theory-into-practice” endeavors for every major from engineering to maritime transportation (“deck”) to business (logistics) and “global studies” (primarily the political science of oceanic countries).

 

And some institutions, like Cal Maritime, extend the “semester-at-sea” type experience opportunity to selective majors at several sister CSUs meeting CMA’s stringent applicability requirements for participation in the “cruise” experience (e.g., meteorology students from Cal Poly SLO). And the added dimension offered by the maritime environment is unequalled.

Of course, a maritime academy’s summer “cruise” is a working experience - not a vacation. Uniforms, work details, classroom instruction and port field experiences occupy most of everyday onboard a training ship. So, it definitely is not what the OP probably envisions.

 

Cute story: Many years ago (when I was VP at Cal Maritime) I took a call from someone at an inland private university inquiring about “chartering” the TS Golden Bear (or, at least,  securing X berths on our regular summer cruise). I delivered what would have been good/bad news for them:

Good news- traversing at least one quarter of the Pacific Rim with a good mix of sea days and port time; classrooms/library/medical care, etc. and very reasonable pricing.

Bad news- working ship with the aforementioned uniform requirement, work details, etc. 

Bottom line: it was a short call. 

[navybankerteacher]

1 hour ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

...

 

I doubt that anyone would disagree that the “sea time” requirements (

And some institutions, like Cal Maritime, extend the “semester-at-sea” type experience opportunity to selective majors at several sister CSUs meeting CMA’s stringent applicability requirements for participation in the “cruise” experience (e.g., meteorology students from Cal Poly SLO). And the added dimension offered by the maritime environment is unequalled.

Of course, a maritime academy’s summer “cruise” is a working experience - not a vacation. Uniforms, work details, classroom instruction and port field experiences occupy most of everyday onboard a training ship. So, it definitely is not what the OP probably envisions.

 

...

Of course - I did not think of my Midshipman training cruises as “semesters at sea” — and I sure as hell did not see that summer with the USMC at Quantico that way.   I was referring to what I have heard of as more of a recreational gap rather than a serious effort to earn the 15 or so legitimate academic hours.

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course - I did not think of my Midshipman training cruises as “semesters at sea” — and I sure as hell did not see that summer with the USMC at Quantico that way.   I was referring to what I have heard of as more of a recreational gap rather than a serious effort to earn the 15 or so legitimate academic hours.

My comment was more for anyone who doesn’t realize the distinction and perhaps only thinks that boats=fun.

[Heidi13]

3 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I doubt that anyone would disagree that the “sea time” requirements (including carefully crafted summer long itineraries on US training ships) maintained by America’s several maritime academies (e.g., the California State University’s Maritime Academy in Northern California) are necessary  “theory-into-practice” endeavors for every major from engineering to maritime transportation (“deck”) to business (logistics) and “global studies” (primarily the political science of oceanic countries).

 

 

Yes, seatime is an essential component of every Deck Officer training, but in the Merchant Navy (commercial shipping), cadets need seatime on real ships to learn the variety of cargo operations.

 

That ship looks like it is all accommodation and probably classrooms. Where are the cargo hatches, derricks, stulken heavy lift, cranes, winches, container guides/tie-downs, cargo pump rooms/manifolds, etc. 

 

We spent our first 4 months on a training ship, that was a conventional cargo ship, with a multitude of different gear and 6 cargo hatches. We learned basic seamanship, ship maintenance and cargo handling. On subsequent voyages, we gradually transitioned into Bridge operations, serving on reefers, tankers, bulkers, container, etc.

 

So no, spending a summer cruise is insufficient seatime to properly train and provide the necessary experience to cadets, preparing them for a career on commercial ships.

 

As a cadet, I spent only 6 months in college and 2.5 years of real seatime. Six months was more than sufficient college time to pass the exams, as we certainly didn't learn how to be a Deck Officer in a classroom. We learned the job on real ships, being taught by very competent Masters and officers, who were still employed at sea.

 

Before retiring, I experienced numerous college trained officers, who had a Certificate of Competency, but had no idea how to actually navigate a ship. In 28 yrs of Command, I have never yet received a college trained junior officer, who could handle watchkeeping duties. Still remember a new, young 2nd Officer, fresh out of college who proundly stated, "Captain, you could paint over the windows and I can navigate by radar." He was devastated when learning reality, first you learn that the eye ball is your best radar, and navigation and collision avoidance tool. Once you can navigate by looking out the windows, then you can start using electronics.

 

Also remember our son's experience. He completed the college program in Vancouver. When leaving for their initial seatime, the lecturers advised they would get every Sunday off and will have another day off for studying. I voiced a contrary opinion, with the response being, "Dad, things have changed since the Arc." Met him in Vancouver after 3 months and during that time he had only received a 1/2 day off. Although he only got 12 months seatime before sailing as 3rd Officer, he experienced some excellent Masters & Officers as a cadet.

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course - I did not think of my Midshipman training cruises as “semesters at sea” — and I sure as hell did not see that summer with the USMC at Quantico that way.   I was referring to what I have heard of as more of a recreational gap rather than a serious effort to earn the 15 or so legitimate academic hours.

 

I'm tending to agree with your last sentence.  We should all rest easy at night knowing our tax dollars are paying off a loan for someone's basket-weaving-at-sea experience.  

[jocap]

On 2/15/2021 at 5:54 PM, Heidi13 said:

 

P&O used to have 2 ships for "Educational Cruises" - Nevasa and Uganda. I spent 3 months on Uganda where we had about 300 adult pax and 1,000 kids. They had lessons, entertainment and sports on board.

 

The adults included the teachers who came with the kids.

 

Each cruise lasted about 2 weeks, with a tour included in each port.

I have met several people who are completely loyal to P&O because of sailing with them as school children; I also have friends who accompanied school parties (one is loyal to Cunard! 😄 ), and another who was one of the teaching staff on board Uganda for 18 months.

[Flatbush Flyer]

15 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I'm tending to agree with your last sentence.  We should all rest easy at night knowing our tax dollars are paying off a loan for someone's basket-weaving-at-sea experience.  

The “semester-at-sea” programs cited by OP are usually offerings of private institutions rather than public universities. So, your tax dollars are safe.

 

Again, US maritime academy (as well as similar IAMU member government academies worldwide) use their summer cruises strictly for training designed to meet both undergraduate degree and USCG licensing requirements.

 

And, like Cal Maritime, many require the middle summer cruise of three total over four years to be spent on commercial ships.

[ldubs]

2 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

The “semester-at-sea” programs cited by OP are usually offerings of private institutions rather than public universities. So, your tax dollars are safe.

 

Again, US maritime academy (as well as similar IAMU member government academies worldwide) use their summer cruises strictly for training designed to meet both undergraduate degree and USCG licensing requirements.

 

And, like Cal Maritime, many require the middle summer cruise of three total over four years to be spent on commercial ships.

 

I thought it pretty clear I was not referring to maritime training or for that matter to any other productive educational pursuit.   Sorry if it came across otherwise. 

 

IDK, I'm pretty sure things like gov't student aid programs, grants, tax breaks, and even direct support apply to private institutions.    Shoot, I seem to recall recently hearing about at least one very well endowed private institution receiving some pretty decent COVID stimulus monies.  🤔

 

 

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, jocap said:

I have met several people who are completely loyal to P&O because of sailing with them as school children; I also have friends who accompanied school parties (one is loyal to Cunard! 😄 ), and another who was one of the teaching staff on board Uganda for 18 months.

 

The Uganda was an amazing ship that provided an excellent experience for the kids. We rarely saw anything but beaming smiles. I spent just over 3 months on her for my 2nd trip and after a rocky start, had a great time.

 

It was a sad day when educational cruising stopped.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

The “semester-at-sea” programs cited by OP are usually offerings of private institutions rather than public universities. So, your tax dollars are safe.

...

Are you sure about that -- given the current surge of Congressional interest in forgiving student loans?

 

Someone's tax dollars will be impacted.

[Flatbush Flyer]

7 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Are you sure about that -- given the current surge of Congressional interest in forgiving student loans?

 

Someone's tax dollars will be impacted.

Agreed that loan forgiveness is an issue. And it is my understanding that fine-tuning the parameters of a final proposal is underway.

[FredT]

On 2/16/2021 at 4:46 PM, Zach1213 said:

 

I'll share my thoughts, and that of my wife, since she did a Semester At Sea. She found it extremely worth her time and money, and a huge learning experience. She did take five years to graduate, but that was with a dual BA in French and Economics, and she felt the learning experience of Semester At Sea would have been well worth some extra time on campus, even if she did need to do that (which she didn't). She's now working on a PhD in International and Development Economics, and owes a lot of that international passion to the travel she did during Semester At Sea (especially to developing places like India and Myanmar), as she had never really traveled before that. 

I'll add to this.  Our daughter did Semester at Sea, and loved it.   BUT she has been very clear over the years that the ship was broken into two distinctive groups.   Those who really DID take the idea of studying and immersing themselves into the cultures of the ports they stopped at seriously, and the other 50% of the kids who treated it as a party ship. 

 

As the ship remains in port for 4-5 days at each stop, the idea was to travel far out into the country and immerse yourself with home stays. When at sea, it's 10 hrs a day 7 days a week classwork.

 

I will say this.  She went to one of the more "prestigious" (Read expensive) universities in the country, and they accepted every credit from SAS.   (And she did graduate in 4 years) I have often joked with her that I wish she had taken SAS more often in her college time.  It was the cheapest semester she had!

Edited February 18, 2021 by FredT

[Zach1213]

14 minutes ago, FredT said:

I'll add to this.  Our daughter did Semester at Sea, and loved it.   BUT she has been very clear over the years that the ship was broken into two distinctive groups.   Those who really DID take the idea of studying and immersing themselves into the cultures of the ports they stopped at seriously, and the other 50% of the kids who treated it as a party ship. 

 

As the ship remains in port for 4-5 days at each stop, the idea was to travel far out into the country and immerse yourself with home stays. When at sea, it's 10 hrs a day 7 days a week classwork.

 

I will say this.  She went to one of the more "prestigious" (Read expensive) universities in the country, and they accepted every credit from SAS.   (And she did graduate in 4 years) I have often joked with her that I wish she had taken SAS more often in her college time.  It was the cheapest semester she had!

 

Yeah, my understanding is the same about the serious versus party. My wife was a bit of a party animal, but knew to take it seriously when she needed to, and party when she could. And, as far as I know, all of the credits made it back to her transcript at the University of Missouri - not 100% sure of that, but about 85% sure. 

[Flatbush Flyer]

27 minutes ago, FredT said:

.... She went to one of the more "prestigious" (Read expensive) universities in the country.....

Not to get to far off topic but...

“Prestigious” doesn’t have to mean “expensive.”

Some of the most prestigious colleges and universities in the US (e.g., UC Berkeley) are public and a relative “bargain” - even for “out-of-state” students who qualify for admission (and can eventually establish California residency).

 

Perhaps more importantly, “prestige” is often based on which “academic major” is being considered rather than the institution in general. 

 

For example, the very expensive University of Southern California is well-respected for its Annenberg School (Communication and Journalism). Yet even their admissions counselors will recommend to prospective students considering a professional broadcasting career in Northern California or further north to Portland, Seattle, etc. to apply to the equally selective/prestigeous (but far less expensive) Broadcasting and Electronic Creative Arts program at San Francisco State University (if for no other reason than that SFSU “owns” the best broadcasting field experiences and internships along the northeastern part of the Pacific Rim).

 

And, if one’s “higher ed” is happening in a major metro area, recognize that the vast majority of lower division (freshman/sophomore) courses (e.g., general education) are taught by  “freeway flyers” with multiple part time jobs at a diverse array of institutions ranging perhaps from local community colleges to the Ivy League. Yes- often exactly the same courses!

 

Finally, FWIW, the general advice I give to most families starting to look at prospective colleges for students who are undecided about their academic pursuits is to start at a community college (for completion of their “general education” requirements), then (when a probable major is identified) transfer to a “baccalaureate” or “comprehensive” college/university, known for excellence in THAT major, to do the undergrad major work (often, at least, one public university in a populous state). Bottom line: Save the “big bucks” price tag for full time graduate/professional school.

[donaldsc]

39 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

 

Finally, FWIW, the general advice I give to most families starting to look at prospective colleges for students who are undecided about their academic pursuits is to start at a community college (for completion of their “general education” requirements), then (when a probable major is identified) transfer to a “baccalaureate” or “comprehensive” college/university, known for excellence in THAT major, to do the undergrad major work (often, at least, one public university in a populous state). Bottom line: Save the “big bucks” price tag for full time graduate/professional school.

 

I agree w you re community colleges.  I will add something to that however.  In many majors, you have to go to graduate school to advance in your chosen profession.  This means that you should pick an undergraduate school that gives you a quality education that will get you into the graduate school of your choice.  Paying the big bucks to an Ivy League school is a waste of money if you can attend a less expensive school, get good grades and then get into the big league graduate school.

 

Bottom line if you want to minimize your college costs and graduate w/o big student loans is -

 

a) Do your first year or so at your community college to get your basic core courses at a minimum cost.  English 101 is the same course whether you take it at Harvard or at your local community college.  In fact, it might be better at your community college since you will probably be taught by a TA at Harvard.  Keep your grades up so you can transfer to a good 4 year school for your junior and senior year.

b) Transfer to a good 4 year college for your junior and senior years.  Get good grades and do a really good senior thesis so that you can get a really good graduate school

c) Finish off your education in a top quality graduate school.

 

After you are done, you will have what is necessary to get a good job and you or your parents will still have money in the bank.

 

DON

[FredT]

52 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Not to get to far off topic but...

“Prestigious” doesn’t have to mean “expensive.”

LOL.....   I'll give you everything you said in your post.   Just remember that I spent about 1/2 of a second choosing that wording.    In this case, the university IS both "prestigious" AND expensive.  (Trust me, both my wallet and accountant are still smarting 11 years later!   

 

Along the same vein, we have two neighbors on our street,   One with a kid at Annapolis, and the other on a full ride at Cornell.....   I love them both but am ready to strangle both at the same time! 😁

[Flatbush Flyer]

5 minutes ago, FredT said:

LOL.....   I'll give you everything you said in your post.   Just remember that I spent about 1/2 of a second choosing that wording.    In this case, the university IS both "prestigious" AND expensive.  (Trust me, both my wallet and accountant are still smarting 11 years later!   

 

Along the same vein, we have two neighbors on our street,   One with a kid at Annapolis, and the other on a full ride at Cornell.....   I love them both but am ready to strangle both at the same time! 😁

FWIW: I did four degrees through to PhD at public universities across the US (yes - professional student) - each one recognized for its excellence in specific disciplines and each one costing more for books than for tuition. 
Of them, the most “memorable” was a BS at Brooklyn College in the ‘60s where, on one of its milestone anniversaries, The NY Times called it the “poor man’s Harvard.” In a next day letter to the NYT editor, BC’s president corrected them: “Actually, Harvard is the rich man’s Brooklyn College.”

[chengkp75]

I am going to show prejudice here, when I note that as a Kings Point grad, we had 2 "semesters at sea", as opposed to the summer cruises of the state academies.  Unlike those cruises, where there were a hundred or more cadets to do the work of 5, KP midshipmen/women had an experience more like Andy's British-style education, where you were a working member of a working cargo ship, and you had to complete studies in your off-hours.  Then, the 4 years of classes for a BS degree were compressed into the 3 remaining years of your academy experience.  While I have worked with vastly more state academy graduates in my career than KP grads (just due to the number of schools), I have found good and bad examples from all the academies.  But, the travel involved, in my day mostly tramp (no fixed itinerary) steamers led me to follow the sea for over 4 decades.