Changed my mind about cruising with Saga

[nosapphire]

Thinking about it, I am not sure that it has changed so much as been "tightened up" (which is what our dinner companions were told).

After so much discussion, I started wondering how accurate my memory was about the dress codes, so went hunting for back copies of the daily sheet on previous cruises, and found some, which make quite intriguing reading.

To/including 2016, there were 3 dress codes - formal, informal, and casual.

Informal gentlemen could choose: lounge suit, sports jacket and trousers or a blazer and trousers with a collared shirt. If a jacket was not worn, then it had to be a long-sleeved shirt with a tie.

Casual gentlemen were open-necked shirt and smart casual trousers.

By January 2017 it was formal or smart-casual - which was open-necked shirt and smart-casual trousers. No shorts or jeans please"

July 2017 was added "no T shirts"

December 2018, was added "a jacket is optional, but please no polo-shirts".

But in February 2019 the "no polo-shirts" had vanished again, only to reappear on the Discovery.

None of this proves anything at all, but it has given me a nice nostalgic trip back.

[wowzz]

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

Thinking about it, I am not sure that it has changed so much as been "tightened up" (which is what our dinner companions were told).

After so much discussion, I started wondering how accurate my memory was about the dress codes, so went hunting for back copies of the daily sheet on previous cruises, and found some, which make quite intriguing reading.

To/including 2016, there were 3 dress codes - formal, informal, and casual.

Informal gentlemen could choose: lounge suit, sports jacket and trousers or a blazer and trousers with a collared shirt. If a jacket was not worn, then it had to be a long-sleeved shirt with a tie.

Casual gentlemen were open-necked shirt and smart casual trousers.

By January 2017 it was formal or smart-casual - which was open-necked shirt and smart-casual trousers. No shorts or jeans please"

July 2017 was added "no T shirts"

December 2018, was added "a jacket is optional, but please no polo-shirts".

But in February 2019 the "no polo-shirts" had vanished again, only to reappear on the Discovery.

None of this proves anything at all, but it has given me a nice nostalgic trip back.

I'm glad I didn't cruise in 2016 ! Talk about living in the1950s! 

[Glenndale]

I have to say that I am amazed that a humble polo shirt can generate such discussion.

Maybe it's a sign of the times and lockdown.

☺️

Looking forward to the day when we can all cruise again on whichever line we choose and which fulfils all our personal criteria.

🙏

 

[nosapphire]

Hey ho - just to add to the confusion, the brochures included with 2 of the papers today, which are not quite the same as the brochure shown online (although they all still show cancelled cruises as available to book) now say "...while twice a week you can look forward to getting dressed up for extra special formal nights".

 

[Windsurfboy]

It's interesting how things have changed ad as people have said relatively recently  (5 years)

 

You have N

A Formal nights DJ , common on all British lines twice a week others less frequent

 

Smart Casual

 

Saga          long trousers collared  shirt

P&O           long trousers  collared shirt

Cunard       long trousers, jacket , shirt 

Viking        long trousers collared shirt

Seaborn    long tousers collared shirt

 

So there's not much difference except Cunard Jacket required. The question is whether a Polo top is classified as a collared shirt by these lines, which seems to be not mentioned and as ambiguous as Saga

, 

[Kohima]

At least it’s been a change of topic from Covid or H&M (not the shop)! The eventual consensus here seems to be that changes of poorly communicated policy backwards and forwards in recent years have caused some confusion where smart casual is concerned. Long trousers and collared shirt seems pretty much the norm elsewhere and leaves it up to individual choice. Just imagine if particular styles of blouse or top were banned for women!

[Denarius]

4 minutes ago, Kohima said:

At least it’s been a change of topic from Covid or H&M (not the shop)! The eventual consensus here seems to be that changes of poorly communicated policy backwards and forwards in recent years have caused some confusion where smart casual is concerned. Long trousers and collared shirt seems pretty much the norm elsewhere and leaves it up to individual choice. Just imagine if particular styles of blouse or top were banned for women!

An interest thought. I have always found dress codes to be applied less rigorously for women than for men. In particular, on formal nights men are expected to wear a dinner jacket, or at the very least a suit and tie. In satorial terms, the female equivalents are surely a long evening gown, or a coctail dress or suit. But in practice women will be admitted wearing "slacks and a nice top" whereas a man in equivalent attire would be refused entry. Surely sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander!

[Kohima]

You are so right Denarius. It’s only the men who are told what to wear!  We women have more choices, whatever the dress code. For some it’s an opportunity to dig out their finery but no one needs to feel uncomfortable if they prefer something more low key. Not many of us have a wardrobe of ball gowns these days.

[Windsurfboy]

1 hour ago, Kohima said:

You are so right Denarius. It’s only the men who are told what to wear!  We women have more choices, whatever the dress code. For some it’s an opportunity to dig out their finery but no one needs to feel uncomfortable if they prefer something more low key. Not many of us have a wardrobe of ball gowns these days.

 

Yes , but I've got only one DJ and just a selection of bow ties and cummerbands to liven it up, my wife certainly has more than one dress.

 

But everyone is  right I've never seen a woman's  outfit challenged. But it is so much a matter of taste with woman's clothes,  whilst for men's it's simple rules, except of course is a polo a collared shirt 

[Jammy Bun]

On 3/13/2021 at 12:37 PM, Windsurfboy said:

 

Saga          long trousers collared  shirt

 

Viking        long trousers collared shirt

 

 

...The question is whether a Polo top is classified as a collared shirt by these lines, which seems to be not mentioned and as ambiguous as Saga

, 

 

We've only cruised Viking for the past three years, and enjoy the lack of a pretentious dress code.  (Honestly, who wears a DJ for dinner these days?  Or a suit and tie to go out to a restaurant?)

 

I can confirm that a polo shirt is perfectly acceptable in the restaurants on Viking ships.  And also can confirm that women don't need to dress up to the nines every evening.  Clean and tidy is all that's needed.  They treat you like grown ups.  By far the best cruises we've taken in 25 years.

 

However... and I would not even be looking at other cruise company's message boards if it weren't for this... most Viking cruises involve a flight.  Which up until Covid was not a problem.  Now, I am more hesitant, and consequently looking at Saga as an option.  But YES formal stuffy dress codes do put me off.  

[Kohima]

 Unfortunately it’s really only the men who have to comply with the dress codes on Saga. On formal nights women’s wear, in reality, ranges from ball gowns to skirts and jumpers. No one worries or judges. Goodness knows why polo shirts for men were singled out as being offensive on other nights. This rule has only been imposed fairly recently. Interestingly they aren’t mentioned as being forbidden for women! As for formal dressing, we long for the days of the old Saga Spirit of Adventure where there was choice. Those who wished to dress up could. However the buffet restaurant was never formal. The food was the same as the MDR and there were even tablecloths and place settings, with helpful waiters if you needed them so no lowering of standards. Having subsequently sailed on both Viking and Oceania, it was so refreshing to be treated as adults who could be trusted to wear appropriate clothing and instead focus on the food and the company.

[Windsurfboy]

Why do people who don't like formal dress have to use derogatory terms like stuffy and old fashioned to describe it, and insinuate that dress codes are equivalent to treating people like children.

 

Some people like dressing up and appreciate when everyone else is similiary attired. They are not stuffy or children who need to be told what to wear. And honestly black tie events still exist. Yes there is some nostalgia in black tie events, no different to Stones concerts.

 

Some people don't like a formal dress code , and I do agree that it's strange that there isn't somewhere for people who don't want to dress formally to eat and drink on formal nights

 

I would also think it extremely  bad manners to use words like scruffy about casual wear

[Manx buoy]

On 3/13/2021 at 12:37 PM, Windsurfboy said:

It's interesting how things have changed ad as people have said relatively recently  (5 years)

 

You have N

A Formal nights DJ , common on all British lines twice a week others less frequent

 

Smart Casual

 

Saga          long trousers collared  shirt

P&O           long trousers  collared shirt

Cunard       long trousers, jacket , shirt 

Viking        long trousers collared shirt

Seaborn    long tousers collared shirt

 

So there's not much difference except Cunard Jacket required. The question is whether a Polo top is classified as a collared shirt by these lines, which seems to be not mentioned and as ambiguous as Saga

, 

Polo shirt has always been ok on P&O since they dropped it to just the 2 dress codes. Can’t comment on the others. 

[Fletcher]

I found Saga's dress code to be utterly laughable and I opted out of it whenever possible.  OK, call me a snob, or even an inverted snob, but to see all these doddery old blokes wearing cheap M&S patent shoes and maybe rented DJs, when I was in Ralph Lauren jacket and chinos with Ferragamo loafers and got ejected from the dining room . . . what a joke.

 

I remember chatting with the incredibly pompous Maitre'D at the door to the MDR of the Sapphire and saying there were (then) only two hotels in the entire UK that demanded a jacket and tie for dinner - The Ritz in London and Inverlochy Castle in Scotland.  'There's a third,' he said, 'the Grand in Scarborough where I used to work.'  We laughed for a long time over that encounter.  

 

I have found that the wealthier and classier people are the less they bother about dressing up.  On those pricey Noble Caledonia ships, for example, we have encountered Lords and Ladies, even the odd Duke or High Court Judge and they just wear cords and sweaters for dinner.  And on our favourite luxury US lines such as Regent, Seabourn and Silversea the dress codes are much more relaxed.  Even Silversea, which does have proper formal nights, allows people to opt out by eating at casual dining venues.  I've not packed a jacket for quite a while.

 

Surely one day all these Saga diehards will become extinct and the line can enter the 21st century.

 

 

[Kohima]

As someone who is not keen on unnecessary dress codes being imposed on holiday, I am not usually in a position of defending formal dress wearers. However I would defend the choice of those who wish, for nostalgic or any other reasons, to wear such dress. Clearly for some this is an important part of their cruise experience as they would not normally have occasion to dress in this way otherwise.  As long as sufficient people want to continue in this way that is fine with me. My problem with Saga is the lack of choice for everyone else whose wishes are currently of no importance. The only choice we have currently is to use other companies, despite being loyal customers in the past. The benefit of that is that we get to see how things are done (very well) elsewhere.

[Windsurfboy]

2 hours ago, Fletcher said:

I found Saga's dress code to be utterly laughable and I opted out of it whenever possible.  OK, call me a snob, or even an inverted snob, but to see all these doddery old blokes wearing cheap M&S patent shoes and maybe rented DJs, when I was in Ralph Lauren jacket and chinos with Ferragamo loafers and got ejected from the dining room . . . what a joke.

 

I remember chatting with the incredibly pompous Maitre'D at the door to the MDR of the Sapphire and saying there were (then) only two hotels in the entire UK that demanded a jacket and tie for dinner - The Ritz in London and Inverlochy Castle in Scotland.  'There's a third,' he said, 'the Grand in Scarborough where I used to work.'  We laughed for a long time over that encounter.  

 

I have found that the wealthier and classier people are the less they bother about dressing up.  On those pricey Noble Caledonia ships, for example, we have encountered Lords and Ladies, even the odd Duke or High Court Judge and they just wear cords and sweaters for dinner.  And on our favourite luxury US lines such as Regent, Seabourn and Silversea the dress codes are much more relaxed.  Even Silversea, which does have proper formal nights, allows people to opt out by eating at casual dining venues.  I've not packed a jacket for quite a while.

 

Surely one day all these Saga diehards will become extinct and the line can enter the 21st century.

 

 

 

It reminds me of the Monty Python  sketch , "I  look down on him........."

 

Hard to respond and stay polite

[Fletcher]

25 minutes ago, Windsurfboy said:

 

It reminds me of the Monty Python  sketch , "I  look down on him........."

 

Hard to respond and stay polite

The Frost Report, I think, not Monty Python.

[nosapphire]

I thought Fletcher's post was a total wind-up just to get everybody going.

Nobody out of school still has the "my shoes are better than your shoes because they cost more" attitude.

 

 

 

[Windsurfboy]

22 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

I thought Fletcher's post was a total wind-up just to get everybody going.

Nobody out of school still has the "my shoes are better than your shoes because they cost more" attitude.

 

 

 

 

Even if it was said in jest as a wind up it still doesn't stop it being offensive.

[Manx buoy]

12 hours ago, nosapphire said:

I thought Fletcher's post was a total wind-up just to get everybody going.

Nobody out of school still has the "my shoes are better than your shoes because they cost more" attitude.

 

 

 

Don’t you believe it we were on Ventura a couple of years ago and an older lady got turfed out of one of the bars after the cut off time for formal wear on the way she screamed I’m a doctor I’ll have you know not riff-raff like the rest of these people 😂

[wowzz]

On 3/23/2021 at 3:26 PM, Fletcher said:

Ralph Lauren jacket and chinos with Ferragamo loafers and got ejected from the dining room . . . what

"Pretentious" Moi?

[nosapphire]

On 3/24/2021 at 11:17 AM, Manx buoy said:

Don’t you believe it we were on Ventura a couple of years ago and an older lady got turfed out of one of the bars after the cut off time for formal wear on the way she screamed I’m a doctor I’ll have you know not riff-raff like the rest of these people 😂

Ah well, they say you only hear people's true opinions when they are drunk...

[Glenndale]

On 3/21/2021 at 6:23 PM, Manx buoy said:

Polo shirt has always been ok on P&O since they dropped it to just the 2 dress codes. Can’t comment on the others. 

Point is Saga isn't P&O. If it's important that you can wear a Polo shirt at dinner then stick with P&O - simple.

As long as the dress code is communicated to the clientele accurately it shouldn't be a problem.

It seems that communication is part of the problem along with those who say "it's my holiday and I'll dress as I please".

[Manx buoy]

5 hours ago, nosapphire said:

Ah well, they say you only hear people's true opinions when they are drunk...

But I didn’t think she knew me🤪

[Manx buoy]

4 hours ago, Glenndale said:

Point is Saga isn't P&O. If it's important that you can wear a Polo shirt at dinner then stick with P&O - simple.

As long as the dress code is communicated to the clientele accurately it shouldn't be a problem.

It seems that communication is part of the problem along with those who say "it's my holiday and I'll dress as I please".

Merely commenting on my own experience doesn’t bother me what I wear