Moody's Outlook on Hurtigruten Financials

[Homerody]

Moody's current update on Hurtigruten's financials - as reported on finance websites is "CAA-PD":

 

"Caa-PD Corporate families rated Caa-PD are judged to be speculative of poor standing, subject to very high default risk, and may be in default on some but not all of their long-term debt obligations."

 

This post is not intended to scare anyone or imply anything.  I'm not smart enough or knowledgeable enough to do any of that.

 

Just an FYI - that's all. 

[clo]

This is part of the reason we took a refund rather than FCC for a cruise a year ago. I'm unsure of their future.

[Homerody]

and now they are taking forever to respond to email!  Hard times for all. 

[clo]

11 hours ago, Homerody said:

and now they are taking forever to respond to email!  Hard times for all. 

 

11 hours ago, Homerody said:

and now they are taking forever to respond to email!  Hard times for all. 

Write their CEO.

[Homerody]

12 hours ago, clo said:

 

Write their CEO.

No reason to do that, yet.

 

Going to the top is for extraordinary unresolved issues.  Lengthy delays on email response in a pandemic and lower staffing levels (not just at Hurtigruten - across the travel industry) is not sufficient reason to go straight to CEO - for me.

 

True - the squeaky wheel gets the response, but I will exhaust all possibilities before going to CEO. I think demonstrating a good faith effort to work out situations through normal channels is very helpful in ultimate resolution of issues. 

 

There is time to go to the top, depending on what, where, when and why of a situation.  I'm not there yet.   While Hurtigruten has been much slower in responding in recent weeks - their response to previous cancellations and ship swaps has been excellent.

 

So all things considered, their slow response is frustrating and - yes - undesirable, but in the scheme of things not much different than other travel providers and another cruiseline I've been dealing with. 

[jonikal]

1 hour ago, Homerody said:

No reason to do that, yet.

 

Going to the top is for extraordinary unresolved issues.  Lengthy delays on email response in a pandemic and lower staffing levels (not just at Hurtigruten - across the travel industry) is not sufficient reason to go straight to CEO - for me.

 

I agree with your thoughts.  We did have a problem, several years ago with a new ship's repeated sailing delay, with lack of communication and an imminent departure with airline reservations etc involved and no response despite repeated efforts with many different  company reps.  Luckily we have the CEO's private cell number and had no choice but to use it.  Our problem was resolved successfully but we have had no reason to use it again.

 

[karen11g]

On 3/18/2021 at 6:35 AM, Homerody said:

and now they are taking forever to respond to email!

 

I haven't experienced that. I emailed them Feb 18 and got a response Feb 19, emailed Mar 5 & response Mar 8, emailed Mar 16 and response Mar 17.

 

I booked thru Hurtgruten.no, so I'm emailing the Norweigian office. I don't know if that makes a difference, but I also called the Seattle office once, got someone and got an answer to my question.

 

Anyone booking Hurtigruten is covered by The Norwegian Travel Guarantee Fund in case of bankruptcy, plus travel insurance likely covers it as well.

 

Of course, the main thing is we don't want our trips to be cancelled. The entire travel industry is struggling, so it's a possibility something could go very wrong. But even with the downgrade, apparently, it is still a pretty remote possibility at this point.

 

Here's hoping, certainly.

[hallasm]

18 minutes ago, karen11g said:

Anyone booking Hurtigruten is covered by The Norwegian Travel Guarantee Fund in case of bankruptcy, plus travel insurance likely covers it as well.

Not necessarily -  you are not covered if you purchase a voyage only - you need to purchase a ‘package holiday’ including at least two elements like voyage + hotel or voyage + flight. Might also cover for voyage + airport transfer but I do not know all the details.

The coverage is in accordance with The Package Travel Directive (2015/2302/EU) protecting European travellers' rights when booking package holidays

Edited March 19, 2021 by hallasm

[karen11g]

Thanks for clarifying. We're still covered, plus covered under our comprehensive travel insurance.

[clo]

5 hours ago, Homerody said:

No reason to do that, yet.

 

May I suggest then that one stop complaining if there "no reason."

[Homerody]

8 hours ago, clo said:

May I suggest then that one stop complaining if there "no reason."

@CLO:  Stating my experience that emails were taking a long time is not a complaint.  It is my observation.

 

An observation to which you offered unsolicited advice since you viewed it as a complaint.

 

I now understand and have some context as to why some - on other CC threads - have mentioned and commented on the viewpoint you contribute to a discussion.

 

This is my last word on this unfortunate digression.

Edited March 20, 2021 by Homerody

[Homerody]

10 hours ago, hallasm said:

Not necessarily -  you are not covered if you purchase a voyage only - you need to purchase a ‘package holiday’ including at least two elements like voyage + hotel or voyage + flight. Might also cover for voyage + airport transfer but I do not know all the details.

The coverage is in accordance with The Package Travel Directive (2015/2302/EU) protecting European travellers' rights when booking package holidays

@hallasm Thank you for the information.  Your input in this forum is very helpful.

[clo]

2 hours ago, Homerody said:

@hallasm Thank you for the information.  Your input in this forum is very helpful.

@hallasm is a wonderful source for Hurtigruten. He'll almost always show up. And he knows the history of a number of the fleet. Our ship was their oldest, the Loften, who is now retired. Only 100 pax.

[comcox]

On 3/18/2021 at 5:58 PM, clo said:

 

Write their CEO.

Their email response is interesting as emails I sent to U.S. address were rarely ever responded to, but then I booked thru the U.K. website and their email responses were very quick and thorough.

[tring]

On 3/19/2021 at 1:32 PM, hallasm said:

Not necessarily -  you are not covered if you purchase a voyage only - you need to purchase a ‘package holiday’ including at least two elements like voyage + hotel or voyage + flight. Might also cover for voyage + airport transfer but I do not know all the details.

The coverage is in accordance with The Package Travel Directive (2015/2302/EU) protecting European travellers' rights when booking package holidays

 

Actually under the EU Package Travel Directive, a cruise is a package in itself since it contains both accomodation and travel.  So no need for another element beyond that. 

 

It is the same in the UK as our legislation is based on that EU Directive, though is written into UK law and has been retained after leaving the EU.

 

Edited May 23, 2021 by tring

[hallasm]

1 hour ago, tring said:

Actually under the EU Package Travel Directive, a cruise is a package in itself since it contains both accomodation and travel.  So no need for another element beyond that. 

Thank you for the clarification

Travel with Hurtigruten along the coast of Norway must be considered a cruise - for sure a return trip Bergen Kirkenes is not transportation - but more likely a port-to-port voyage could be considered transportation and accommodation required as part of the transport might be a grey area - from the directive: ”in cases where, unlike in the case of a cruise, overnight accommodation is provided as part of passenger transport by road, rail, water or air, accommodation should not be considered as a travel service in its own right if the main component is clearly transport.”

Assuming Hurtigruten know when it’s transport only or when it’s a cruise.

[comcox]

Hurtigruten really trying to talk me out of getting a refund on a Maud cruise, or at least delay it.  After writing several times, I finally received the following response:

"We would like to apologize once more for the disappointment caused and for our delay in reverting to you. The safety, well-being and comfort of our guests is of paramount importance to Hurtigruten and we can understand your disappointment in the refurbishment status of MS Maud. In consideration of this, we will provide you with a full refund of your money paid to Hurtigruten for your MS Maud sailing.

 

Please note that we are in discussion with colleagues about an alternative offer. Within the next two weeks, we are looking to revise the current offer for those booked on a sailing with MS Maud. When we have further communication, we will be sure to reach out to you if you would be interested in knowing what the new offer may be.

 

Alternatively, if you would like to proceed with a refund, would you kindly provide us with the below bank details so that we may provide you a wire transfer? Due to system limitations, we are unable to process a refund back to credit cards."

 

Problem with that is the bank will charge conversion fees so I won't get everything I'm owed (I paid in £ but my bank is in the U.S.).  I wonder why they keep wanting to delay and if that has anything to do with financial difficulty.  I had the same problem last year with Cruise and Maritime trying to get refunds on cancelled cruises and then they abruptly declared bankruptcy leaving many of us without the money.

[tring]

4 hours ago, hallasm said:

Thank you for the clarification

Travel with Hurtigruten along the coast of Norway must be considered a cruise - for sure a return trip Bergen Kirkenes is not transportation - but more likely a port-to-port voyage could be considered transportation and accommodation required as part of the transport might be a grey area - from the directive: ”in cases where, unlike in the case of a cruise, overnight accommodation is provided as part of passenger transport by road, rail, water or air, accommodation should not be considered as a travel service in its own right if the main component is clearly transport.”

Assuming Hurtigruten know when it’s transport only or when it’s a cruise.

 

DH spent his working life in consumer protection with the legal side forming a big part in his roles, so is well versed in the directive.  He agrees there are grey areas in some cases, but would consider the reason why someone booked the journey as being the main point.  Meaning did they book for the journey itself, or primarily for the transport.  Another comment he made is that any entertainment and excursion provision are also touristic services forming part of the package, as well as the transport and accommodation.  Hence the same journey could be booked by different people and be classed differently as a cruise or transport.  Most ferries in Europe would be clear cut regards that, though the continental ferries from the UK do provide "mini cruises" where people travel to Spain and go ashore, but do not vacate their cabin, returning to the UK with the ferry - that is clearly a cruise, albeit on a ferry.  Could also perhaps argue that someone taking the QM2 to the US could have booked for the transport, rather than the experience, hence may not be a cruise for them......  The Norwegian coastal journey could be of a bit of a grey area for some journeys as you say, though if the person had booked for the experience of the journey, then would be a cruise.  

Edited May 23, 2021 by tring

[tring]

2 hours ago, comcox said:

Hurtigruten really trying to talk me out of getting a refund on a Maud cruise, or at least delay it.  After writing several times, I finally received the following response:

"We would like to apologize once more for the disappointment caused and for our delay in reverting to you. The safety, well-being and comfort of our guests is of paramount importance to Hurtigruten and we can understand your disappointment in the refurbishment status of MS Maud. In consideration of this, we will provide you with a full refund of your money paid to Hurtigruten for your MS Maud sailing.

 

Please note that we are in discussion with colleagues about an alternative offer. Within the next two weeks, we are looking to revise the current offer for those booked on a sailing with MS Maud. When we have further communication, we will be sure to reach out to you if you would be interested in knowing what the new offer may be.

 

Alternatively, if you would like to proceed with a refund, would you kindly provide us with the below bank details so that we may provide you a wire transfer? Due to system limitations, we are unable to process a refund back to credit cards."

 

Problem with that is the bank will charge conversion fees so I won't get everything I'm owed (I paid in £ but my bank is in the U.S.).  I wonder why they keep wanting to delay and if that has anything to do with financial difficulty.  I had the same problem last year with Cruise and Maritime trying to get refunds on cancelled cruises and then they abruptly declared bankruptcy leaving many of us without the money.

 

We have no particular banking knowledge, nor any knowledge of that within Norway.

 

Just discussed your problem with DH though and he reminded me of when we had a Pandaw river cruise in Myanmar cancelled a few years ago.  He had booked direct with Pandaw (Singapore based) in Dollars.  They were unable to refund us via our card, but they did transfer the refund directly back to our UK bank.  It arrived back into our account as pounds and the company covered the cost of both the transfer and the conversion charges, so we did receive a full refund, so at least in our case, that was possible.  The other point though is that Pandaw had to give a full refund as our cruise had been cancelled by them.  This does not seem to be the case for your cruise.  If the cruise is the one from Dover, which you mentioned on another board recently, that could obviously happen in the not too distant future.  Good luck, hope all turns out well for you.

 

Interesting to read this thread regards the position of Hurtigruten as we had considered booking something with them ourselves, but would not have booked until the future becomes clearer.   

[Homerody]

4 hours ago, comcox said:

Hurtigruten really trying to talk me out of getting a refund on a Maud cruise, or at least delay it.  After writing several times, I finally received the following response:

"We would like to apologize once more for the disappointment caused and for our delay in reverting to you. The safety, well-being and comfort of our guests is of paramount importance to Hurtigruten and we can understand your disappointment in the refurbishment status of MS Maud. In consideration of this, we will provide you with a full refund of your money paid to Hurtigruten for your MS Maud sailing.

 

Please note that we are in discussion with colleagues about an alternative offer. Within the next two weeks, we are looking to revise the current offer for those booked on a sailing with MS Maud. When we have further communication, we will be sure to reach out to you if you would be interested in knowing what the new offer may be.

 

Alternatively, if you would like to proceed with a refund, would you kindly provide us with the below bank details so that we may provide you a wire transfer? Due to system limitations, we are unable to process a refund back to credit cards."

 

Problem with that is the bank will charge conversion fees so I won't get everything I'm owed (I paid in £ but my bank is in the U.S.).  I wonder why they keep wanting to delay and if that has anything to do with financial difficulty.  I had the same problem last year with Cruise and Maritime trying to get refunds on cancelled cruises and then they abruptly declared bankruptcy leaving many of us without the money.

After a couple of COVID cancellations by Hurtigruten and a ship swap along the long winding path of the past 14 months, I decided to take my money and not rebook.    In several threads on CC I mention some of the things I encountered along the way - including Hurtigruten basically insisting that the refund had to be via wire transfer.  And as you note that involves bank fees and a less favorable fx conversion rate than credit cards.

 

With the deteriorating customer service I encountered, I decided to cut my losses and moved on.  I rebooked with Havila.