Covid 2

[rucrazy]

Hi Everyone... I truly love your input!

My new poll question...

Considering the effecivness of the Vaccine, regardless of which one you are able to recieve.. do you think/feel as a matter of safety for all  the Cruise Industry needs/should adopt a industry wide "prove your vaccinated in order to board policy?

 

Joseph

 

[Stumblefoot]

Joseph, would love your opinion on the following from Gary Leff:

 

With all of the challenges that make it hard to prove vaccination, how do you define what the standard is?  
 

1) Is it the Singaporan process of using the blockchain to validate vaccination status, or the American process of an easily replicable and modifiable card stock ripe for fraud?  As such, how would Americans actually prove they’re vaccinated?

 

2) Different vaccines offer different levels of protection and against spread, including differences in how prophylactic they are against continued mutations in the virus. Will passports be accepted for some vaccines and not others?

 

3) Since different vaccines are approved in different places, would AstraZeneca be accepted since it is approved in much of the world, but not the U.S.?  What about a Russian who received the Sputnik V vaccine, or a citizen of the U.A.E. who received China’s Sinopharm vaccine; would they be eligible for entry into the U.S.?  With South Africa suspending the use of AstraZeneca out of fears it isn’t as effective against their dominant strain of the virus, would a U.K. citizen who received that vaccine have their vaccine passport recognized on arrival in Johannesburg?

 

4) What counts as vaccination?  Many experts recommend a regimen of ‘first doses first’ delaying second doses in order to get first jabs into as many arms as possible as quickly as possible. That’s the strategy the U.K. has pursued, because it provides the greatest level of societal protection.  Does a first dose of Moderna count as vaccinated, when clinical trial data showed greater effectiveness against symptomatic Covid from one dose than the Johnson & Johnson vaccine which is a one-dose vaccine?  Would it make sense to require two Moderna shots but only one from J&J for this purpose?  Would Sinovac’s 50% effective vaccine counts for vaccination?

5) How long will a vaccine passport be valid for and will it vary by shot received?  Will booster shots be required too since different vaccines may have different lengths of efficacy?  If yes, at what point does a booster dose become required?  And, does it matter which one?  For example, would a Pfizer booster dose be accepted for someone initially vaccinated with Moderna and would these requirements change on a country-by-country basis?

[Randyk47]

53 minutes ago, Stumblefoot said:

Joseph, would love your opinion on the following from Gary Leff:

 

With all of the challenges that make it hard to prove vaccination, how do you define what the standard is?  
 

1) Is it the Singaporan process of using the blockchain to validate vaccination status, or the American process of an easily replicable and modifiable card stock ripe for fraud?  As such, how would Americans actually prove they’re vaccinated?

 

2) Different vaccines offer different levels of protection and against spread, including differences in how prophylactic they are against continued mutations in the virus. Will passports be accepted for some vaccines and not others?

 

3) Since different vaccines are approved in different places, would AstraZeneca be accepted since it is approved in much of the world, but not the U.S.?  What about a Russian who received the Sputnik V vaccine, or a citizen of the U.A.E. who received China’s Sinopharm vaccine; would they be eligible for entry into the U.S.?  With South Africa suspending the use of AstraZeneca out of fears it isn’t as effective against their dominant strain of the virus, would a U.K. citizen who received that vaccine have their vaccine passport recognized on arrival in Johannesburg?

 

4) What counts as vaccination?  Many experts recommend a regimen of ‘first doses first’ delaying second doses in order to get first jabs into as many arms as possible as quickly as possible. That’s the strategy the U.K. has pursued, because it provides the greatest level of societal protection.  Does a first dose of Moderna count as vaccinated, when clinical trial data showed greater effectiveness against symptomatic Covid from one dose than the Johnson & Johnson vaccine which is a one-dose vaccine?  Would it make sense to require two Moderna shots but only one from J&J for this purpose?  Would Sinovac’s 50% effective vaccine counts for vaccination?

5) How long will a vaccine passport be valid for and will it vary by shot received?  Will booster shots be required too since different vaccines may have different lengths of efficacy?  If yes, at what point does a booster dose become required?  And, does it matter which one?  For example, would a Pfizer booster dose be accepted for someone initially vaccinated with Moderna and would these requirements change on a country-by-country basis?

 

 

Good question and food for thought.

 

1)  Local news has already reported fake CDC vaccination cards are out there.  Seems a little early as I don’t know of any venue, mode of transportation, etc., asking for them yet.  I will say when I got my “card”, which is actually printed on regular paper stock not card stock, I figured it would take me a whole 5-10 minutes to reproduce a blank one.   I think eventually we’ll see some kind of standardized validation process.

 

2)  It may be just a few months but more likely we won’t know the long term effectiveness of any of the vaccines until next year.  The variants and potential mutations could easily turn vaccination into something along the lines of the annual flu shot.   
 

3)  I’m not too sure what organization or organizations certify vaccines for worldwide use.  Maybe the World Health Organization?  Maybe there isn’t a overarching somebody in charge.  Certainly this is a valid question and concern with the multitude of vaccines already available and supposedly more still being developed and tested.  I think at one time last summer there were something like 50 vaccines being developed.   Some probably have failed like Merck did and I don’t know the status of others.   
 

4)  The easy answer is if it is a one, two, and maybe a boaster dose vaccine you aren’t fully vaccinated until you get whatever a particular vaccine calls for.  I’ve only gotten my first dose of the two dose Pfizer and win’t consider myself vaccinated until the second dose.  I personally don’t think partial vaccination should count for anything.

 

5)  Almost too many variations in those questions to answer.   I kind of lump them together and say it is too early to know the long range vaccination requirements.  My personal concern is the underlying virus will mutate as fast as we can produce new and improved vaccines and we never catch up.    For all I know the Pfizer routine I’ll finish at the end of March could be totally useless in a few months.   

[drron29]

It may be instead of proving vaccination you have to have an antibody test to see if you are relatively immune.After all vaccines work by provoking an antibody response.I note Greece if it does allow travel will insist on either proof of vaccination or an antibody test.

 

As to the 1 dose and wait it really is working in the UK with 1 shot of the AZ vaccine decreasing hospital admissions by 96%.Pfizer after 1 dose decreases admissions by 86%.I dodn't think Moderna is being used.

Edited March 14, 2021 by drron29

[rucrazy]

It seems to me the only acceptable way would be to create a global data base (maybe orchestrated by the vaccine drug manufacturers with the assistance of those who may administer the shot(s)) thus creating a true global vaccine passport. This quandry is truly above my paygrade.. I normally just stand at the back of the room and wave! 👋🏼

 

Joseph

[crusinbanjo]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:57 AM, rucrazy said:

It seems to me the only acceptable way would be to create a global data base (maybe orchestrated by the vaccine drug manufacturers with the assistance of those who may administer the shot(s)) thus creating a true global vaccine passport. This quandry is truly above my paygrade.. I normally just stand at the back of the room and wave! 👋🏼

 

Joseph

If govmints do this just think of how proud George Orwell would be of his predictions 

[rucrazy]

40 minutes ago, crusinbanjo said:

If govmints do this just think of how proud George Orwell would be of his predictions

Like he isn't proud already!? 🤣

 

Joseph

[OlsSalt]

How many still carry their yellow WHO vaccination certificates? My yellow fever vaccination "proof" is now over 50 years old. If this document still works for Yellow fever, why not "covid"?  Des it still get honored  today as proof of yellow fever vaccination, or any other vaccination history?

 

I don't like the idea of business corporations alone forcing blanket medical decisions on us; instead of personal individual decisions made between doctor and patient; in conjunction with national public health agency advisories. 

 

Yellow fever being a good example - according to CDC, yellow fever vaccinations are risky for those over the age of 70.

 

Should this age group  be exempted from any universal yellow fever vaccination mandates before allowed to travel to certain countries, or should this be a risk analysis made between patient and doctor, who would then issue an age exemption? The burden then falls on the patient to risk travel and fully accept the consequences; not the travel industry to demand a one size fits all restriction regardless of individual health status..

 

Agree about the use of anti-body testing for those who allegedly already had "covid"; with the caveat we need a lot better anti-body tests specific to "covid".if "covid" is going to be used as the universal travel threshold standard.

 

I am troubled we are still talking about two different phenomena: "covid"; and media covid hysteria. With very troubling reporting and data inconsistencies still driving the covid story even today. We are in an Age of Information crisis more than a health care crisis; and I am sorry to see it took down the entire cruise industry.

[5waldos]

I actually do carry my yellow card stapled into my current passport. And we did hold our collective breaths and get a yellow fever vaccination after age 70- and were fine. As far as whether the current card will work forever for the Covid vaccines- it is not known how long you will remain mostly immune. Hopefully it will be longer than a year as is true for regular flu. It was hard enough getting one set of jabs- having to do it every year would be a nightmare. 

 

Unfortunately many medical decisions do not impact only the individual. And while you can accept the consequences of your decisions for yourself, what about the rest of us? In the case of covid, the more people who are not vaccinated, the greater the opportunity for the virus to mutate. Thus your decision impacts the greater population.  

 

Civilization can be a drag sometimes and yes, I believe that the greater good can sometimes trump the freedom of the individual. Examples of this abound- many (most? all?) of our laws are designed to do exactly this- define what we as a society determine to be for the good of the whole. 

 

Now, off my high horse and onto a cup of coffee. 

[Stumblefoot]

11 hours ago, 5waldos said:

 Now, off my high horse and onto a cup of coffee. 

Try QueSeraSera’s three glasses of wine. 😉