‘Fully vaccinated’ cruises coming to Alaska

[AKStafford]

https://www.alaskasnewssource.com/2021/03/23/fully-vaccinated-cruises-coming-to-alaska/

“Fully vaccinated” cruises are coming to Alaska, according to a joint statement from Gov. Mike Dunleavy, Juneau Mayor Beth Weldon, and small ship adventure cruises company UnCruise.

UnCruise says it has six small boats the company will be operating this year for travel to and from Alaska. Crew and guests on every boat will be fully vaccinated to ensure the safety of everyone on board, according to UnCruise’s CEO.

“We are going to do everything we can at my level to let the world know that we are open for business,” Dunleavy said during a press conference on Monday. “We are a safe state, we are probably the safest state, we want visitors here, and we want everyone to enjoy Alaska.”

The small boats hold anywhere from 22 to 86 guests, and each person will be required to have their CDC cards saying they are vaccinated on hand.

Captain Dan Blanchard, CEO of UnCruise Adventures, said he’s excited about the future opportunities this coming summer holds.

“I want people to know Alaska is open, wide open,” he said. “Alaska has the highest vaccination rate in the nation, and we can’t wait to share our wild natural areas with guests. Our decision to move to fully vaccinated cruises will help our guests and crew experience Alaska in the safest way possible.”

Starting on May 10, the cruise line will launch its boats heading to Alaska. Ships will begin departing from Juneau on May 16.

“The beauty of this is, if you take these cruises, you’re probably going to see parts of Alaska in a way that you may never seen them before,” Dunleavy added. “I think the smaller cruises, are going to afford possibilities that people didn’t even think about.”

[njhorseman]

In the long run those CDC vaccination cards are not going to cut the mustard as proof of COVID vaccination. Any piece of paper can easily be forged.

An electronic "passport" of some type will have to be developed for proof of vaccinations to be meaningful. There are several possibilities being discussed but nothing exists as of today.

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, njhorseman said:

In the long run those CDC vaccination cards are not going to cut the mustard as proof of COVID vaccination.

 

 The Yellow Vaccination Folder has had a "very long run" and has worked.  No reason that it cannot still be useful.  To require some type of electronic passport for proof of Covid vaccination is a discriminatory requirement and will result in litigation, possibly delaying a return to travel, and potential "full employment" for many lawyers.  

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, AKStafford said:

“Fully vaccinated” cruises are coming to Alaska, according to a joint statement from Gov. Mike Dunleavy, Juneau Mayor Beth Weldon, and small ship adventure cruises company UnCruise.

 

Certainly great news for Alaskans!  

[Italy52]

Fantastic news for the people of Alaska.  The UnCruise pricing is kind of high for us.  So for now, we will be flying into Juneau this June, spend a few days doing some of our favorite excursions and then return back home awaiting our June 2022 14-day cruise to Alaska.  So happy to hear things are moving in a positive direction.

[njhorseman]

58 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

 The Yellow Vaccination Folder has had a "very long run" and has worked.  No reason that it cannot still be useful.  To require some type of electronic passport for proof of Covid vaccination is a discriminatory requirement and will result in litigation, possibly delaying a return to travel, and potential "full employment" for many lawyers.  

For some years now the only disease vaccination regularly tracked on the cards for travel purposes is yellow fever and yellow fever is not directly transmittable from one human to another. Yellow fever is not not even in the same universe of diseases as COVID-19. 

 

What worked years ago won't work now. Easily forged pieces of paper or cardboard are inadequate for proof of vaccination against a disease that is highly transmittable from person to person and so deadly.

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say electronic proof  would be "discriminatory". Discriminatory under what laws? If the electronic record is available to anyone who is vaccinated who pray tell is being discriminated against?  

 

[rkacruiser]

1 minute ago, njhorseman said:

If the electronic record is available to anyone who is vaccinated who pray tell is being discriminated against?  

 

Those segments of the world's population that do not have access to some sort of an electronic device.  

 

3 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

For some years now the only disease vaccination regularly tracked on the cards for travel purposes is yellow fever

 

There is ample space on the folder for other vaccination data to be recorded.  Any vaccinations or re-vaccinations that I have had are recorded in those spaces.  I now wish I had taken that Yellow Folder with me to my vaccination site and requested that the data on the CDC card also be recorded in that Folder.  I have my CDC card resting within the folder currently as well as the card that showed that I had received the vaccine for the Swine Flu.  

[njhorseman]

Just now, rkacruiser said:

Those segments of the world's population that do not have access to some sort of an electronic device.  

Really.  How do they travel internationally without a passport?  The vaccination record just has to be linked to the passport record. Electronically readable passports have been required for years.

 

2 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

There is ample space on the folder for other vaccination data to be recorded.  Any vaccinations or re-vaccinations that I have had are recorded in those spaces.  I now wish I had taken that Yellow Folder with me to my vaccination site and requested that the data on the CDC card also be recorded in that Folder.  I have my CDC card resting within the folder currently as well as the card that showed that I had received the vaccine for the Swine Flu.

We're not talking about whether there's space to record it on the folder.  Who gives a hoot about that? We're talking about preventing forgery of the record of vaccination . 

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Really.  How do they travel internationally without a passport?  The vaccination record just has to be linked to the passport record. Electronically readable passports have been required for years.

 

That is a worthy goal to be reached.  How many millions of new passports would have to be issued, or those current passports unexpired that would have to be submitted for such vaccination to be recorded, for this goal to be reached?  

 

I can support such a goal.  But, if travel/cruising is going to again resume anywhere close to what it had been pre-Covid, the hospitality/leisure/transportation industry will remain in their "Winter" while society in general probably be entering its "Spring".  

 

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

We're talking about preventing forgery of the record of vaccination . 

 

Attempts at scams, forgery, etc.?  These have become almost a daily nuisance.  How many millions of dollars have I "turned down" from calls from a well known publishing magazine sales outfit informing me that I have won one of their top prizes, including a 2021 Lincoln in my choice of colors?  How many times have I received a call from "Microsoft" informing me that my Windows 10 operating system is not working while I am online using Windows 10?  ETC.  

 

Whatever method is devised to try to insure that an individual is properly vaccinated, there will be those who will do their best to undermine that effort by forgery, scams, etc.  

 

In defense of the Yellow Folder, are you aware and can cite examples of when that vaccination record has ever been forged?  If so, I would appreciate learning about that.  I am not aware of any.  

[CruiserBruce]

I am not sure a person would need to have access to a computer to use a digital vaccination record. Rather, the person would have to make an effort to prove their vaccination status in an official capacity with access to the vaccine data base, which exist in many states, and at the federal level. So, in our case, when we got vaccinated, the site documented our vaccine into the state database. We also provided the documentation from the site, both the CDC card, and the medical record generated by the vaccination site to our personal physician. Then, if the digital "Yellow Folder" comes into existence, our personal physician would either enter the info from the records provided, or by confirming it in the State database. 

 

I don't see any discrimination for needed to have a computer. A personal physician maybe, but other access to the State database could be arranged.

[njhorseman]

56 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

That is a worthy goal to be reached.  How many millions of new passports would have to be issued, or those current passports unexpired that would have to be submitted for such vaccination to be recorded, for this goal to be reached?  

 

I can support such a goal.  But, if travel/cruising is going to again resume anywhere close to what it had been pre-Covid, the hospitality/leisure/transportation industry will remain in their "Winter" while society in general probably be entering its "Spring".  

You don't seem to understand the concept . Your passport will link to a database that has your vaccination record. That doesn't require a new passport, it requires the creation of a vaccination database that can be linked to the information about you that is already contained in the existing passport database.

 

1 hour ago, rkacruiser said:

Attempts at scams, forgery, etc.?  These have become almost a daily nuisance.  How many millions of dollars have I "turned down" from calls from a well known publishing magazine sales outfit informing me that I have won one of their top prizes, including a 2021 Lincoln in my choice of colors?  How many times have I received a call from "Microsoft" informing me that my Windows 10 operating system is not working while I am online using Windows 10?  ETC.  

 

Whatever method is devised to try to insure that an individual is properly vaccinated, there will be those who will do their best to undermine that effort by forgery, scams, etc.  

 

In defense of the Yellow Folder, are you aware and can cite examples of when that vaccination record has ever been forged?  If so, I would appreciate learning about that.  I am not aware of any. 

For some years the Yellow Card hasn't been used for much of anything other than a record of yellow fever vaccination that is required by some countries if you've traveled to a country where yellow fever is endemic. Even then I've read any number of comments by posters here who have said that at times no one checked the card even when it should have been checked. Again, one human does not catch yellow fever from another human. The disease transmitted by mosquitos. Frankly no one probably cares whether anything is forged on the card because what would be forged is of little real consequence to public health. But with the emergence of COVID-19 there are potentially major public health consequences of travel that are making governments consider requiring anyone entering their country to have proof of vaccination. The Yellow Card is a relic from an earlier age when better records of proof weren't available .  The COVID-19 pandemic can and should be used as the catalyst to bring international travel health records into the modern world, not the age of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

[broberts]

15 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

That doesn't require a new passport, it requires the creation of a vaccination database that can be linked to the information about you that is already contained in the existing passport database.

 

 

I suspect there are some privacy hurdles with this approach.

 

Since passports are not a requirement to travel within the US, I also wonder about the basic feasibility.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2021 by broberts

[Heidi13]

When vaccinations are mandatory, the documentation presented must be acceptable to the country being visited. Personally, I cannot envisage any single system that would be acceptable for use throughout the entire world, meets privacy laws and cannot be copied.

 

Passports sound good, but a large number of Americans travel outside the country without requiring a passport. In addition, in many 3rd world countries, they do not have the ability to scan a passport, when clearing the ship. The local authorities board the vessel to visually inspect and manually stamp the passports ,and when vaccinations are required, they inspect the written documents. Providing an electronic record or a record linked to our passport would be of no use to many of the ports we have visited.

 

While a WHO approved vaccination record is easily forged, it will be the only documentation that many ports will accept, if vaccinations are required. I have maintained one for over 40 years, most of that time it could be easily forged, but it was still accepted on both of our previous World Cruises.

 

In countries that provide Gov't health care, we already have an electronic record, as it is included on our medical record which is tied to our Health Number. However, only medical professionals have access. 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

 

I suspect there are some privacy hurdles with this approach.

 

Since passports are not a requirement to travel within the US, I also wonder about the basic feasibility.

 

 

The word passport is being used to mean two different things. One is the traditional passport used for international travel, the second being a "vaccine passport" that is some as of yet undetermined way to prove that you have been vaccinated. I'm not suggesting you would need a traditional passport for domestic travel, but you might need a vaccine passport.

 

Privacy isn't an issue. If proof of vaccination is required for some activity such as travel then you have to consent to provide that proof in the form required. If you don't consent you don't get to travel. The concept is no different than your having consent to passenger ticket contracts today for cruises and air travel. You have no choice but to agree to the terms set by the airline or cruise line if you wish to take the flight or the cruise. The airlines or cruise lines will simply add the proof of vaccination requirement to their standard contracts. It's already going to be done for those cruise lines that have announced they will be requiring proof of vaccination. It's just that today there's no way for that vaccination record to be stored in and accessed from a secure database so a paper record will be used as proof initially. 

[broberts]

14 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The word passport is being used to mean two different things. One is the traditional passport used for international travel, the second being a "vaccine passport" that is some as of yet undetermined way to prove that you have been vaccinated. I'm not suggesting you would need a traditional passport for domestic travel, but you might need a vaccine passport.

 

Privacy isn't an issue. If proof of vaccination is required for some activity such as travel then you have to consent to provide that proof in the form required. If you don't consent you don't get to travel. The concept is no different than your having consent to passenger ticket contracts today for cruises and air travel. You have no choice but to agree to the terms set by the airline or cruise line if you wish to take the flight or the cruise. The airlines or cruise lines will simply add the proof of vaccination requirement to their standard contracts. It's already going to be done for those cruise lines that have announced they will be requiring proof of vaccination. It's just that today there's no way for that vaccination record to be stored in and accessed from a secure database so a paper record will be used as proof initially. 

 

For clarity it would make sense to keep the traditional meaning of passport and use something like vaccination record as proof of vaccination.

 

The privacy hurdles I suspect would be in the linking of passport data with vaccination data. If an individual consents to the linkage it is not an issue. Should an individual refuse the linkage it does not strike me as reasonable to refuse carriage if the individual has been vaccinated.

 

Personally I think continuing to use the WHO approved card/booklet makes the most sense. It requires no significant alteration of existing systems. It is well understood around the world. It is inexpensive. True the vaccination record can be forged. I would argue that no system is free of that problem. While it may seem easy to forge a handwritten record, they can be fairly easy to spot. Especially by someone looking at hundreds every day.