CDC Ruining Cruising in the US

[XCoastie73]

5 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

So the thing to do is create a controversy that pushes the other way, like the CLIA letter campaign.

Agree. One could, if desperate, challenge through litigation, too. But it’s always dicey to haul into court an agency upon whose cooperation and approvals you depend. In addition, it would be an uphill battle — courts tend to give great deference to agency ‘experts’ on essentially technical decisions. So taking it to the court of public opinion may be the best available alternative. 

[billf0401]

It's about time

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/florida-gov-desantis-threatens-to-sue-fed-if-they-dont-lift-no-sail-ban-by-the-summer

[howiefrommd]

3 hours ago, billf0401 said:

It's about time

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/florida-gov-desantis-threatens-to-sue-fed-if-they-dont-lift-no-sail-ban-by-the-summer

Although sounds good, unfortunately it is totally political theater.  For a State to have a “Standing” in Federal Court pursuant to any actionable matter set for via Regulations set forth in the CFR, requires an amazing amount of legal expertise. Certainly there are others who can claim “Standing” (ie cruise lines, other States, etc.) yet they have failed to apply for relief from the Federal Judiciary.

Should the amazing hurdle be made and “Standing” is granted, you are looking at many years of litigation before this would even be heard.  

 

[Redtravel]

CDC is not ruining cruising. They are protecting Americans from the virus.  As we have seen, cruising is a super spreader.  Cruise lines want to sail. People want to travel. However, nobody wants to get sick or die as a result. Sadly, for now, it may be prudent to follow CDC recommendations.  It’s meant to keep people safe.

[Aloha 1]

3 hours ago, Redtravel said:

CDC is not ruining cruising. They are protecting Americans from the virus.  As we have seen, cruising is a super spreader.  Cruise lines want to sail. People want to travel. However, nobody wants to get sick or die as a result. Sadly, for now, it may be prudent to follow CDC recommendations.  It’s meant to keep people safe.

Haven't got your vaccination yet, have you? Once you do, your tune may change. CDC has been reactive from the get go on this. The current rule was put in place a year ago. Things are rapidly becoming much different now as the vaccines roll out.

[clo]

1 hour ago, Aloha 1 said:

Haven't got your vaccination yet, have you? Once you do, your tune may change. CDC has been reactive from the get go on this. The current rule was put in place a year ago. Things are rapidly becoming much different now as the vaccines roll out.

Hmm, I guess you get your news in a different place. The virus is starting to plateau. That's not good.

[Paulchili]

4 minutes ago, clo said:

Hmm, I guess you get your news in a different place. The virus is starting to plateau. That's not good.

Not just plateau but it is rising in several States

[njhorseman]

4 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Not just plateau but it is rising in several States

Such as here, in beautiful New Jersey despite a pretty decent vaccination program and capacity restrictions still in place for restaurants, etc...and a populace that overall has been compliant with the various protocols the governor has put in place. 

 

[Daniel A]

19 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Not just plateau but it is rising in several States

Amongst the population of fully vaccinated people?  I hadn't heard that.

[Paulchili]

2 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Amongst the population of fully vaccinated people?  I hadn't heard that.

Did I say anything about fully vaccinated people?

[Daniel A]

2 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

Did I say anything about fully vaccinated people?

I believe your post was in agreement with post #56 which was solely a reply about vaccines and vaccinated people.

[clo]

12 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

Amongst the population of fully vaccinated people?

Where are those people and what % of the population?

[Daniel A]

3 minutes ago, clo said:

Where are those people and what % of the population?

Hmm, I guess you get your news in a different place...  The answers can be found here:

 

COVID-19 Vaccine Tracker: Updates on When You Will Get a Coronavirus Vaccine | TIME

 

 

[cruisemom42]

On 3/26/2021 at 9:07 PM, XCoastie73 said:

However, we're such a litigious society (even in Texas!) that many establishments here STILL impose a mask requirement, I think out of fear of litigation should someone somehow trace their infection back to that establishment.  (Or it's just virtue signaling.)

 

Or they actually believe that wearing masks helps prevent disease spread and want to protect their workers...

[Erndog72]

It would not surprise me in the least if someone or several someones in control of the cruise ban has/have a conflict of interest going. I also would not be surprised if they sold cruise line stock short and are waiting for several lines to "bottom out".

[Erndog72]

2 hours ago, clo said:

Hmm, I guess you get your news in a different place. The virus is starting to plateau. That's not good.

All viruses cycle. Should we continue this for the rest of our lives? Is that even a life worth living?

 

[Erndog72]

7 hours ago, Redtravel said:

CDC is not ruining cruising. They are protecting Americans from the virus.  As we have seen, cruising is a super spreader.  Cruise lines want to sail. People want to travel. However, nobody wants to get sick or die as a result. Sadly, for now, it may be prudent to follow CDC recommendations.  It’s meant to keep people safe.

Cruising is not a "super spreader". Compare the cases vs. total passengers on all the cruises in 2020 prior to the shutdown. Yes, the CDC is destroying the cruise industry in America. 

[Erndog72]

12 hours ago, billf0401 said:

It's about time

 

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/florida-gov-desantis-threatens-to-sue-fed-if-they-dont-lift-no-sail-ban-by-the-summer

I hope they sue the living crap out of them.

[Redtravel]

7 hours ago, Aloha 1 said:

Haven't got your vaccination yet, have you? Once you do, your tune may change. CDC has been reactive from the get go on this. The current rule was put in place a year ago. Things are rapidly becoming much different now as the vaccines roll out.

I am fully vaccinated.  Unfortunately, there are still high numbers of new infections in NJ including some that have been vaccinated.  There are increasing cases of the new variant virus.  I know people who have been infected, became ill, recovered, tested negative,  and then got sick again.  The lingering affects are scary. When most of the population is vaccinated, hopefully  new infections will decline.  We need to vaccinate kids. 

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, Erndog72 said:

Cruising is not a "super spreader". Compare the cases vs. total passengers on all the cruises in 2020 prior to the shutdown. Yes, the CDC is destroying the cruise industry in America. 

 

How quickly we forget:

 

https://www.thewellnews.com/health/congress-investigates-cruises-as-coronavirus-super-spreaders/

 

A nice recap of the cruise lines' initial lack of transparency that led to dozens of unnecessary deaths and at the same time makes clear that CDC is not the only entity taking the cruise lines actions seriously, and not necessarily supporting a fast restart without evidence of safety.

 

If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck....

 

 

 

[DeanoNorthPerth]

5 hours ago, Erndog72 said:

All viruses cycle. Should we continue this for the rest of our lives? Is that even a life worth living?

 

If you are indeed contemplating suicide I implore you to get professional help.

[pinotlover]

Played golf yesterday afternoon and ended up having drinks afterwards with our local MD/PHD Epidemiologist Disease Control guy.  He shed light on several issues while simultaneously blasting the populace, the CDC, the Press, and the Cruise Industry.

 

Short story is two fold. 1. It currently appears the U.S. may only hit a 65-70% vaccination rate. We won’t achieve herd mentality and the virus, and it’s variations, will continue to plague us. (2) There remains a lot of unanswered questions about this virus and how it is spread and the CDC, along with the Press have not been forthcoming about what we do know .

 

He supports the cruising ban until 11/1 to give us a chance to answer some of the many questions he pointed out. However, he also believes it is highly unlikely that the scientific community will have enough actual data by 11/1 to give a truly scientific appraisal by that date. He wasn’t even sure the raw data will be there a year from now. Based on that, and the conservative nature of the CDC and Fauci, the return to cruising in the mid term will be a political decision not a scientific/medical one.

 

Part of the lecture revolved around the changing nature of our health. We don’t know what viral load is necessary to make one infected or ill. We do know that it varies by individual. How susceptible is that fully vaccinated person that starts chemotherapy or dialysis? How about that person diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer? Does the length of effectiveness vary by age or a deteriorating immune system? We don’t know and remember, we won’t hit herd immunity. This is where he blasted the cruise industry.
 

Cruiser: I want to finish chemo by 12/1 to go on that cruise.

Cruise Line: Show me the money.

 

Cruiser: I’ve been diagnosed with Stage 4 XYZ cancer and given 6 months to live. I want to go on my dream cruise before I die.

Cruise Line: Show me the money.

 

Cruiser: Can I bring all my portable dialysis equipment along.

Cruise Line: Show me the money.

 

The doctor said there will be dramatically different results from cruises that have a younger healthier clientele versus one that caters to a different clientele. That’s not PC to say, but major problems will occur if it’s not recognized. The cruise industry is their own worst enemy. It’s easier to squash them all unilaterally than deal with them individually from a CDC perspective.

[hmorrow]

On 3/26/2021 at 12:45 PM, JonesCruiser said:

So I am choosing not to receive the COVID 19 vaccine at this time.  What a shame that in a country where freedom is the national mantra, I am not free to choose not to receive a medical procedure without a lot of negative comments.  To me it is a personal choice.  I am amazed at the number of people in the United States who have forgotten what freedom means.

 

BTW, I have serious concerns about those who have been vaccinated and now believe they will not get COVID 19.  Vaccine is supposed to reduce the symptoms not eliminate the virus.  Anyone else concerned?

We are only getting it, so we can cruise.....(don't really want it)

[hmorrow]

On 3/27/2021 at 11:51 AM, Cruise NH said:

There's a lot of vitriol aimed at the CDC but do we know what the cruise industry's role in this is?  What have they submitted to the CDC to prove it's safe to sail?  For all we know they have not complied with anything they've been asked to do (I hope that's not true!).

 

And I think we should remember that Florida was the state that wouldn't let a HAL ship dock when they had sick people on it (four dying) so let's hold off handing them any prizes.

in regards to Fl and  HAl- the one thing that never changes, is that everything ALWAYS changes....

[Ride-The-Waves]

On 3/25/2021 at 6:00 PM, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

 

Just read an article regarding the US Senate hearing with the CDC, regarding its blind opposition to cruising in the US. It is disgusting that the CDC will not reconsider their October 2020 decision shut down, which was ordered before the vaccine was approved.
They refuse to accept that the covid vaccine is a game changer.

They refuse to hear the Senators, claiming that the decisions are coming from DOT.

They refuse to reconsider, which is based on antiquated information. 

They refuse to understand that they are punishing the American cruisers, as well as the cruise lines. 
What can we, the public do to change this course of inaction by the CDC. 
My husband and I love to cruise. We are in our 80’s. It’s so easy for us to be able to sail out of Miami. No flying necessary.

But, I guess if we have to, we will fly to board a ship outside of the US. 

CDC... wakeup and start serving the public you are supposed to be protecting!
sheila

Lies.  Obfuscations.  Untruths.

 

Just a few observations.  The Conditional Sail Order was issued 6 (SIX) months ago and cruise lines have yet to provide their protocols on resuming cruising for US ports.  If they really wanted to restart cruising, responding should have been a first priority.  This gives the appearance of "flipping off the American government" by non-US based businesses.  

 

Cruise lines are reporting an uptick in infections on board isolated ships.  If they can't control the environment on their ships while in isolation how can they even consider if being safe to embark passengers.

 

This is just another "woe is me" posting - nothing more or less.

 

"CDC... wakeup and start serving the public you are supposed to be protecting!"   Just what do you think they are doing?  Giving the green light to cruise from US ports when it is not safe is NOT protecting the public..