Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[nocl]

Just now, Ken the cruiser said:

It seems NCL believes they have been.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Wants an Answer from the CDC - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

The problem is that when you go back the what they refer to as "previously submitted plan" it refers to a letter NCL sent to CDC that "outlined it plan" based upon that high level outline they were request that the CDC lift its CSO.   Not for them to sail under the CSO.  Nothing about their agreements being completed.  Nothing about their plan for test cruises.

 

Apparently this is what NCL considers to be cooperating but really not.

 

[Ken the cruiser]

10 minutes ago, nocl said:

The problem is that when you go back the what they refer to as "previously submitted plan" it refers to a letter NCL sent to CDC that "outlined it plan" based upon that high level outline they were request that the CDC lift its CSO.   Not for them to sail under the CSO.  Nothing about their agreements being completed.  Nothing about their plan for test cruises.

 

Apparently this is what NCL considers to be cooperating but really not.

 

OK. I assume you're referring to this. So just curious, why can't CDC at least respond to its shortfalls, if there are any, rather than just ignoring it?

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings (NCLH) has sent a letter to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Monday outlining its plan to resume cruise operations from U.S. ports in July that includes its multi-layered SailSAFE Health and Safety Program developed in conjunction with globally recognized experts, including the Healthy Sail Panel (HSP), according to a press release. 

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Submits Plan to CDC. Asks for July 4 Restart - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

Edited April 15, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

If there is a tie in a Senate Committee, it goes automatically to the Floor.

 

 

I did not know that.  I imagine it's the Majority Leader's decision as to when to put such a Bill on the Senate's calendar.  

 

1 hour ago, CruiserBruce said:

Keep in mind there are also committees in the House, and all are created proportionally to House membership, with the Chair being a member of the majority. There won't be any ties in the House. 

 

Yes, I am aware of this.  While the probability of a tie vote on a Bill before any House Committee is unlikely, it "could" happen.  I imagine that both the Majority and Minority Leaders of the House would agree, trying to manage their caucuses is like "trying to herd cats" at times.  

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, Reagan0712 said:

However, if still wish to take umbrage with my remarks

 

Umbrage with your remarks?  Certainly not!  

 

I think we are "on the same page".  I have nothing but respect for the Senior Senator of Alaska.  She is a serious legislator as compared to some members in both Houses of Congress.  

[nocl]

5 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

OK. I assume you're referring to this. So just curious, why can't CDC at least respond to its shortfalls, if there are any, rather than just ignoring it?

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings (NCLH) has sent a letter to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Monday outlining its plan to resume cruise operations from U.S. ports in July that includes its multi-layered SailSAFE Health and Safety Program developed in conjunction with globally recognized experts, including the Healthy Sail Panel (HSP), according to a press release. 

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings Submits Plan to CDC. Asks for July 4 Restart - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

They will respond.  Now they could just give an off the cuff answer or they could actually study it and generate a researched response.

 

Let me reverse the question why hasn't NCL told use how they are doing with their port agreements?

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, nocl said:

They will respond.  Now they could just give an off the cuff answer or they could actually study it and generate a researched response.

 

Let me reverse the question why hasn't NCL told use how they are doing with their port agreements?

Would some/most of the port agreements with any given ship be influenced by whether or not all passengers and crew had been vaccinated or not? I would think that would play a big part in the final detailed plan, but that's something NCLH and CDC would have to work out.

 

But in answer to your question if I understand it correctly, I doubt we, as the general public, would be ever be provided that level of information, unless CDC made it public sometime after it became official.

Edited April 16, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[nocl]

9 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Would some/most of the port agreements with any given ship be influenced by whether or not all passengers and crew had been vaccinated or not? I would think that would play a big part in the final detailed plan, but that something NCLH and CDC would have to discuss.

 

But in answer to your question if I understand it correctly, I doubt we, as the general public, would be ever be provided that level of information, unless CDC made it public sometime after it became official.

NCL was certainly public that they sent a letter outlining their plan.  They were not hesitate in saying that the CDC had not responded to that letter.  So they clearly are not negotiating or supplying additional details to the CDC.  One would also think that they would indicate that they were negotiating to move towards opening.

 

Certainly they might not be able to finalize all details.  But the one can negotiate the agreements, including having discussions with the port authorities based upon what they intend to do,  include  contingency options, then they would be ready to finalize them quickly.  After all the only real unknown is does the port think that they need housing units for 10 or for 100.  The final number can be easily put in place if all of negotiations are done.

 

I do know anytime I had a project with a timeline that required negotiations, we started them as soon as possible even if we were waiting on final details.  Just to make sure that the negotiations were not the holdup when we reached that stage of the project. I do not know of any other company that had a critical timeline that would not also move aggressively with negotiations if they had any plan in actually putting agreements in place.

 

It is clear from their request to be released from the CSO, that they are not negotiating the agreements, even preliminary negotiations, because they have no real intent to follow the CDC framework.  

 

So instead they are going to run their PR campaign, lobby, hoping to build enough pressure that either the CDC gets over ridden or the pandemic ends.  It is their mode of operation in dealing with Caribbean island government so I guess they feel that they should do it in the US.

 

I expect that their next move will be to pressure the ports to offer the services, without cost or agreement to the cruise lines, that the CDC has specifically the cruise lines bear responsibility for.

 

I think we saw the start of that from the one FMC commissioner.

Edited April 16, 2021 by nocl

[Ken the cruiser]

18 minutes ago, nocl said:

NCL was certainly public that they sent a letter outlining their plan.  They were not hesitate in saying that the CDC had not responded to that letter.  So they clearly are not negotiating or supplying additional details to the CDC.  One would also think that they would indicate that they were negotiating to move towards opening.

 

Certainly they might not be able to finalize all details.  But the one can negotiate the agreements, including having discussions with the port authorities based upon what they intend to do,  include  contingency options, then they would be ready to finalize them quickly.  After all the only real unknown is does the port think that they need housing units for 10 or for 100.  The final number can be easily put in place if all of negotiations are done.

 

I do know anytime I had a project with a timeline that required negotiations, we started them as soon as possible even if we were waiting on final details.  Just to make sure that the negotiations were not the holdup when we reached that stage of the project. I do not know of any other company that had a critical timeline that would not also move aggressively with negotiations if they had any plan in actually putting agreements in place.

 

It is clear from their request to be released from the CSO, that they are not negotiating the agreements, even preliminary negotiations, because they have no real intent to follow the CDC framework.  

 

So instead they are going to run their PR campaign, lobby, hoping to build enough pressure that either the CDC gets over ridden or the pandemic ends.  It is their mode of operation in dealing with Caribbean island government so I guess they feel that they should do it in the US.

 

I expect that their next move will be to pressure the ports to offer the services, without cost or agreement to the cruise lines, that the CDC has specifically the cruise lines bear responsibility for.

 

I think we saw the start of that from the one FMC commissioner.

As always you make a lot of good points. It will be interesting to see how this all works out, especially when it comes to ANY cruise line doing what it takes to start cruising out of any US port in July. 

[nocl]

37 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

As always you make a lot of good points. It will be interesting to see how this all works out, especially when it comes to ANY cruise line doing what it takes to start cruising out of any US port in July. 

Believe me I wish I was wrong.  But unfortunately not seeing any signs at this time.

 

I expect that MSC might be the first to start sailing out of the US.  They seem to be seriously engaged using there experience in Italy with their bubble cruises.  Their protocols there seem to be consistent with the CDC framework so the only thing they are really missing is the agreements and the test cruises.  I expect that they are proposing that the CDC accept their real cruise experience in Europe in place of the test cruises. Or maybe have the CDC inspect there protocols on one of those cruises.

 

[Cruising Is Bliss]

On 4/2/2021 at 12:22 PM, Roz said:

 

If that's the case, HIPPA has gone too far.  Is it a violation of HIPPA for schools to require vaccinations?

No. Not at all. HIPAA (this is the actual acronym) doesn't do any of what people are trying to drag it into to justify their vaccine arguments.

 

It only covers anyone who sees any of your health care information as part of their job providing medical care, which includes back office/admin, and your medical insurance. HIPAA prevents people with authorized access to your health care information from releasing that information without your permission.

 

This is a page and a half FAQ written in plain English and I recommend everyone in the US should go and read the whole thing to know your rights.

 

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/consumers/consumer_rights.pdf

 

"Generally, your health information cannot be used for purposes not directly related to your care without your permission. For example, your doctor cannot give it to your employer, or share it for things like marketing and advertising, without your written authorization."

 

The key words are "without your permission". Providing your vaccination status to anyone is voluntary. Cruise lines and schools are not telling you that you or your kids have to get vaccinated. Or even tell them if you've been vaccinated. They're telling you that if you choose not to be, these are the consequences.

 

"No Vaccinations, No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"

 

 

Edited April 16, 2021 by Cruising Is Bliss

[FlaMariner]

Editorial in the WSJ today regarding why our ships are being held hostage and what's being done to free them:

 

Comment: 

 

http://ereader.wsj.net/eeLayout/wallstreetjournal/1.0.a/images/webapp/banner.png

Friday, April 16, 2021

 

Cruise Ships in the CDC Dock  If ever there was a reason to celebrate federalism, look to the continued incarceration of the cruise industry. Even living in California lockdown would be preferable to living under the Covid tyranny of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Most businesses are subject to state laws. Not so the cruise business, one of the few industries subject to near-total federal control and the only one that has remained in complete lockdown since March 2020. Want to imagine life if the public-health oligarchy had free rein? This is your case study. Lockdown enthusiasts portray cruises as unnecessary luxuries, the only losers of the moratorium on foreign cruise-line operators. But many smaller operators are U.S.owned and -flagged. And the lockdown is wreaking havoc on American states, businesses and workers. Millions of cruise passengers annually come ashore to shop, eat and stay in hotels. Farmers supply food; truckers deliver goods; thousands of Americans work directly on the ships or in cruise ports. In a lawsuit against the CDC last week, the state of Florida noted that direct expenditures by the industry in 2019 generated "nearly 159,000 total jobs paying $8.1 billion in income" in the Sunshine State. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky continues to hold these jobs hostage to her "feeling of impending doom." Cruise ships operate in national and international waters, and the CDC claims authority to control communicable diseases from foreign countries. The CDC issued its first "No Sail Order" on March 14, 2020, followed by extensions. Under intense pressure by the Trump administration, the agency reluctantly segued in October to a vague "Conditional Sailing Order," which purported to lay out a reopening. It was a ruse, another way to keep the industry docked. The order laid out four phases companies would need to complete to operate. But the CDC simply refused to issue guidance, and even by March not a single cruise line had graduated phase 1. Asked by Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski at a March 18 hearing to give an "indicator" of a "timeline" for phase 2, Dr. Walensky responded: "I can't." It's not as if the cruise industry lacks a plan. Starting in 2020, Federal Maritime Commissioner Robert Sola began working intensely to get ports, lines and local officials together on port-by-port plans for reopening. Cruise liners created a Healthy Sail Panel, chaired by former Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt and former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, and issued best practices for testing, sanitation, ventilation and procedures in case of positive cases. The CDC has been unmoved. This month it finally issued "technical instructions," a series of rules so complex as to be unmanageable, and all designed to ensure that taking or working on a cruise will be as enjoyable as entering a labor camp. Daily symptom checks, endless testing, no crew bars or gyms, modified meal service, rules for getting on the boat, rules for getting off, mask requirements,   The entire industry is shut down in the U.S., while Europe and Asia are sailing again.      rules against shaking "dirty laundry." All of this laid out in a color-coded regime that ranks ships green, orange, yellow or red on a moving basis, and most of it requiring CDC signoff?down to a threat that it "may oversee the onboard collection of crew specimens." The CDC did at least revoke its rule forbidding the use of gangways more than once every 12 hours, after being reminded that more than a million Americans are daily boarding airplanes on jetways with nary a Covid hot spot in consequence. To add insult to injury, the CDC also reiterated its recommendation that "all people avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide." It apparently irks the CDC autocrats that they can't rule globally. Because while CDC officials still have nightmares over the botched Diamond Princess cruise saga, the rest of the world has moved on. European and Asian cruises have reopened with great success. The Cruise Lines International Association says more than 400,000 passengers have traveled since last summer, with few Covid cases. Cruise lines are perfectly capable of operating with protocols. The Biden team has made no effort to intercede, as it sees the benefit of using the continued lockdown as proof we are still in a "crisis" (and therefore in need of more spending). White House press secretary Jen Psaki reminded the nation we should remain grateful the president will allow us a small, July 4 barbecue, which "is quite different from cruises, of course." But the pushback is finally coming. Florida has sued, and Alaska is threatening to do so. Congressional Republicans recently sent a letter to the White House demanding answers, and Sens. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.) Rick Scott (R., Fla.) and Dan Sullivan (R., Alaska) this week introduced legislation to force a reopening. Even operators are fed up. Carnival Cruise Line last week threatened to move its ships from U.S. home ports. The Covid crisis created many new power players, but none so frightening as the public health official. The cruise sector is evidence of the urgent need for a discussion about how best to keep that megalomaniacal bureaucracy in check. Write to kim@wsj.com. POTOMAC WATCH By Kimberley A. Strassel

 

[Tampa Girl]

1 hour ago, FlaMariner said:

Editorial in the WSJ today regarding why our ships are being held hostage and what's being done to free them:

 

Comment: 

 

http://ereader.wsj.net/eeLayout/wallstreetjournal/1.0.a/images/webapp/banner.png

Friday, April 16, 2021

 

Cruise Ships in the CDC Dock  If ever there was a reason to celebrate federalism, look to the continued incarceration of the cruise industry. Even living in California lockdown would be preferable to living under the Covid tyranny of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Most businesses are subject to state laws. Not so the cruise business, one of the few industries subject to near-total federal control and the only one that has remained in complete lockdown since March 2020. Want to imagine life if the public-health oligarchy had free rein? This is your case study. Lockdown enthusiasts portray cruises as unnecessary luxuries, the only losers of the moratorium on foreign cruise-line operators. But many smaller operators are U.S.owned and -flagged. And the lockdown is wreaking havoc on American states, businesses and workers. Millions of cruise passengers annually come ashore to shop, eat and stay in hotels. Farmers supply food; truckers deliver goods; thousands of Americans work directly on the ships or in cruise ports. In a lawsuit against the CDC last week, the state of Florida noted that direct expenditures by the industry in 2019 generated "nearly 159,000 total jobs paying $8.1 billion in income" in the Sunshine State. CDC Director Rochelle Walensky continues to hold these jobs hostage to her "feeling of impending doom." Cruise ships operate in national and international waters, and the CDC claims authority to control communicable diseases from foreign countries. The CDC issued its first "No Sail Order" on March 14, 2020, followed by extensions. Under intense pressure by the Trump administration, the agency reluctantly segued in October to a vague "Conditional Sailing Order," which purported to lay out a reopening. It was a ruse, another way to keep the industry docked. The order laid out four phases companies would need to complete to operate. But the CDC simply refused to issue guidance, and even by March not a single cruise line had graduated phase 1. Asked by Alaska Sen. Lisa Murkowski at a March 18 hearing to give an "indicator" of a "timeline" for phase 2, Dr. Walensky responded: "I can't." It's not as if the cruise industry lacks a plan. Starting in 2020, Federal Maritime Commissioner Robert Sola began working intensely to get ports, lines and local officials together on port-by-port plans for reopening. Cruise liners created a Healthy Sail Panel, chaired by former Health and Human Services Secretary Mike Leavitt and former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Scott Gottlieb, and issued best practices for testing, sanitation, ventilation and procedures in case of positive cases. The CDC has been unmoved. This month it finally issued "technical instructions," a series of rules so complex as to be unmanageable, and all designed to ensure that taking or working on a cruise will be as enjoyable as entering a labor camp. Daily symptom checks, endless testing, no crew bars or gyms, modified meal service, rules for getting on the boat, rules for getting off, mask requirements,   The entire industry is shut down in the U.S., while Europe and Asia are sailing again.      rules against shaking "dirty laundry." All of this laid out in a color-coded regime that ranks ships green, orange, yellow or red on a moving basis, and most of it requiring CDC signoff?down to a threat that it "may oversee the onboard collection of crew specimens." The CDC did at least revoke its rule forbidding the use of gangways more than once every 12 hours, after being reminded that more than a million Americans are daily boarding airplanes on jetways with nary a Covid hot spot in consequence. To add insult to injury, the CDC also reiterated its recommendation that "all people avoid travel on cruise ships, including river cruises, worldwide." It apparently irks the CDC autocrats that they can't rule globally. Because while CDC officials still have nightmares over the botched Diamond Princess cruise saga, the rest of the world has moved on. European and Asian cruises have reopened with great success. The Cruise Lines International Association says more than 400,000 passengers have traveled since last summer, with few Covid cases. Cruise lines are perfectly capable of operating with protocols. The Biden team has made no effort to intercede, as it sees the benefit of using the continued lockdown as proof we are still in a "crisis" (and therefore in need of more spending). White House press secretary Jen Psaki reminded the nation we should remain grateful the president will allow us a small, July 4 barbecue, which "is quite different from cruises, of course." But the pushback is finally coming. Florida has sued, and Alaska is threatening to do so. Congressional Republicans recently sent a letter to the White House demanding answers, and Sens. Marco Rubio (R., Fla.) Rick Scott (R., Fla.) and Dan Sullivan (R., Alaska) this week introduced legislation to force a reopening. Even operators are fed up. Carnival Cruise Line last week threatened to move its ships from U.S. home ports. The Covid crisis created many new power players, but none so frightening as the public health official. The cruise sector is evidence of the urgent need for a discussion about how best to keep that megalomaniacal bureaucracy in check. Write to kim@wsj.com. POTOMAC WATCH By Kimberley A. Strassel

 

 I am confused as to exactly what was written and whether there were some interjected opinions of others because no quotation marks were used and parts of the article are disjointed.  In any event, the article is obviously the opinion of Strassel.  It may be on point; it may be exaggerated; it may be flat out wrong in parts.  Basically, it is not enlightening.

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, Tampa Girl said:

 I am confused as to exactly what was written and whether there were some interjected opinions of others because no quotation marks were used and parts of the article are disjointed.  In any event, the article is obviously the opinion of Strassel.  It may be on point; it may be exaggerated; it may be flat out wrong in parts.  Basically, it is not enlightening.

And it is factually wrong as the entire cruise industry in the US is not shut down; there are river cruises that are adhering to protocols and sailing.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Tampa Girl said:

 I am confused as to exactly what was written and whether there were some interjected opinions of others because no quotation marks were used and parts of the article are disjointed.  In any event, the article is obviously the opinion of Strassel.  It may be on point; it may be exaggerated; it may be flat out wrong in parts.  Basically, it is not enlightening.

I expect that this is part of what we will see as an increasing PR/lobbying campaign on the part of the cruise lines to try and avoid any over sight by the CDC.  NCL just made a large contribution to the union of the dockworkers in Miami.  Interesting timing.

 

Another application of the Caribbean Island strategy.

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Tampa Girl said:

 I am confused as to exactly what was written and whether there were some interjected opinions of others because no quotation marks were used and parts of the article are disjointed.  In any event, the article is obviously the opinion of Strassel.  It may be on point; it may be exaggerated; it may be flat out wrong in parts.  Basically, it is not enlightening.

Agree...it is simply opinion. It doesn't attempt to consider or explain the other side at all. All the poster did was find someone that agreed with them.

[clueless2]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cruise-industry-executives-health-experts-145559802.html

The discussion, which centered around how the pandemic-battered industry could get back into business, comes after the CDC said passengers and crew would need ...

[chengkp75]

27 minutes ago, clueless2 said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cruise-industry-executives-health-experts-145559802.html

The discussion, which centered around how the pandemic-battered industry could get back into business, comes after the CDC said passengers and crew would need ...

And the CDC stated that they were committed to a "phased approach", which sounds awfully familiar to the comments from the CDC since the CSO was announced last year.

[nocl]

42 minutes ago, clueless2 said:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cruise-industry-executives-health-experts-145559802.html

The discussion, which centered around how the pandemic-battered industry could get back into business, comes after the CDC said passengers and crew would need ...

What this and other articles did not say when they mentioned that CDC did not give a date, is that the date is dependent upon the cruise line complying with requirements.  When they comply they can restart, as long as they don't they cannot.  So the date is dependent upon actions by the cruise lines.

[nocl]

16 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And the CDC stated that they were committed to a "phased approach", which sounds awfully familiar to the comments from the CDC since the CSO was announced last year.

Yep, the CDC is saying they are open to restarting.  (Meaning that cruise lines can sail once they meet requirements).  The cruise lines are complaining about requirements, and not taking any actions to comply.  Only to send in letters and request being removed from the CSO.

 

No change.

[Kamfish642]

CDC needs to clearly identify that a cruise line can restore service if requirements are met.   CDC throws out vague messaging but will not be specific.

 

In general, if someone is uncomfortable with cruising on a cruise line that does meet their standards, then don't cruise on them.'  Its called free will; rather than the government will control every facet of one's life.

[ontheweb]

43 minutes ago, nocl said:

What this and other articles did not say when they mentioned that CDC did not give a date, is that the date is dependent upon the cruise line complying with requirements.  When they comply they can restart, as long as they don't they cannot.  So the date is dependent upon actions by the cruise lines.

People want to blame the CDC, or the government (except for Florida) instead of the virus. Also somehow the cruise lines which have for the most part sat on their hands except for the CLIA asking people to write to the CDC and their representatives in Congress are made out to be blameless.

[nocl]

28 minutes ago, Kamfish642 said:

CDC needs to clearly identify that a cruise line can restore service if requirements are met.   CDC throws out vague messaging but will not be specific.

 

In general, if someone is uncomfortable with cruising on a cruise line that does meet their standards, then don't cruise on them.'  Its called free will; rather than the government will control every facet of one's life.

The CDC provided its framework almost 6 months ago.  Has any cruise line submitted a detailed plan presenting their interpretation of the requirements?   No.  The CDC has now provided detailed requirements for the port agreements.  Anyone indicate that work is being done to meet those requirements?  No

 

What you have instead is first the CLIA and then individual cruise lines sending in the Safe Sail Committee Report and in the case of NCL a letter with an outline of a plan (not the plan itself) and in each case requesting that the CSO be dropped.  Not modified. Not engaging in detailed discussions at a working level. Just CEO level complaints but no action to comply.

 

The port agreement requirements are to avoid a repeat of last March when ports would not let ships dock.  Maybe they should drop them with the warning that if there is an outbreak they will not be able to return to the US after all that is free will.

Edited April 16, 2021 by nocl

[chengkp75]

43 minutes ago, Kamfish642 said:

CDC needs to clearly identify that a cruise line can restore service if requirements are met.   CDC throws out vague messaging but will not be specific.

 

16 minutes ago, nocl said:

The CDC provided its framework almost 6 months ago. 

In the April 2020 update to the No Sail Order, the CDC clearly stated that in order to "continue to obtain free pratique" (in maritime lingo that means to be able to continue to get a health clearance to enter US waters without going to quarantine or having a health inspection), certain conditions had to be met.  Those very same conditions were put into the Conditional Sail Order in October 2020, again listed as requirements to obtain free pratique.  The CDC has been very clear, to someone with maritime knowledge, that the cruise lines can resume operations if they meet the CDC's requirements, since obtaining free pratique is the only "hold" the CDC has over the cruise lines.  The CDC has not budged from their position in a year.

 

As you say, the cruise lines have "free will" as well.  They can choose to meet the CDC requirements, and cruise to/from US ports, or they can operate from strictly non-US ports.

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, Kamfish642 said:

CDC needs to clearly identify that a cruise line can restore service if requirements are met.   CDC throws out vague messaging but will not be specific.

 

In general, if someone is uncomfortable with cruising on a cruise line that does meet their standards, then don't cruise on them.'  Its called free will; rather than the government will control every facet of one's life.

 

Agreed!!!!

 

 

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

 The CDC has not budged from their position in a year.

 

 

Exactly.....but yet things have changed with the pandemic....we have vaccines...we didn't have them back then...but the CDC doesn't budge......and something tells me they won't for a VERY long time.

 

Booking cruises now that don't touch the states as far out as 2023........ not waiting for the CDC to get around to really looking at the whole picture......