New technical instructions - Phase 2a

[nocl]

10 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

I've stayed out of this thread, but was about to say something similar.

 

If there's no firm requirement in law or the CFR, pretty much every regulated industry does this sort of thing all the time. You assess your risks, evaluate your mitigations, document your assumptions, and propose your control plan. And if your industry is inspected or audited by a government agency, you're inspected or audited against your plan.

 

If the cruise lines put forward a proposal based on a vaccinated population against current CDC isolation and quarantine guidance, for instance, they could probably propose a 1-5% population requiring a housing agreement, and even that may be high; you make and document your assumptions and do the math. Part of that depends on how they interpret the group setting guidance; that appears to apply to where you are after a potential exposure (arguably might apply if you were getting on a second cruise within 14 days, but not sure if you're going home to a single family setting); that would seem to most directly apply to the crew.

 

Now, the lines might not want to propose a plan that's based on a verified vaccinated population, Even if that's what they're planning for. I think they'd all be much happier if a handful of key Caribbean destinations started requiring vaccines. Then they'd just be meeting the requirements of their port calls...

I suspect that they consider this unworkable and burdensome because it violates the old cruise line rule that once a problem is off the ship it is no longer their problem.

[Ken the cruiser]

13 minutes ago, nocl said:

I suspect that they consider this unworkable and burdensome because it violates the old cruise line rule that once a problem is off the ship it is no longer their problem.

I don't know about that based on what Celebrity has posted in their Health & Safety Protocols posted on their web page. Seems pretty reasonable.

Covid-19 Assistance

Your cruise fare includes the following at no extra cost:

• If you test positive for COVID-19 within 14 days of sailing or at the pier, 100% refund of the cruise fare for you and anyone in your traveling party who doesn’t sail
• All Covid-19 related onboard treatment
• Incremental land-based quarantine cost* & travel expenses home for Covid-19 + guests, those suspected of being Covid-19 + and non-vaccinated close contacts that are required to debark and quarantine

    _{^{*Incremental costs are those not covered by the guest’s travel insurance policy}}

[nocl]

21 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I don't know about that based on what Celebrity has posted in their Health & Safety Protocols posted on their web page. Seems pretty reasonable.

Covid-19 Assistance

Your cruise fare includes the following at no extra cost:

• If you test positive for COVID-19 within 14 days of sailing or at the pier, 100% refund of the cruise fare for you and anyone in your traveling party who doesn’t sail
• All Covid-19 related onboard treatment
• Incremental land-based quarantine cost* & travel expenses home for Covid-19 + guests, those suspected of being Covid-19 + and non-vaccinated close contacts that are required to debark and quarantine

    _{^{*Incremental costs are those not covered by the guest’s travel insurance policy}}

On the surface it would seem similar and if the risk was as low as people project then might even be cheaper doing it the CDC way since the contracted rate would probably be lower than what an individual would pay.

 

Largest difference.  This is the cruise line policy which they can change anytime they want.  They are offering it because they feel they need to an incentive for people to book.  The second they feel that is no longer necessary they can drop it.

 

With the CDC requirement it is no longer their choice.  They would continue to have the responsibility until the CDC decides that the situation no longer requires it.  Probably when the state of emergency is removed.

[wrk2cruise]

3 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

• Incremental land-based quarantine cost* & travel expenses home for Covid-19 + guests, those suspected of being Covid-19 + and non-vaccinated close contacts that are required to debark and quarantine

    _{^{*Incremental costs are those not covered by the guest’s travel insurance policy}}

 

I also read between the lines that you are probably personally responsible for finding such accommodations and probably pay for and seek reimbursement.  You can also be required to debark at any port, not just embarkation/debarkation port.

 

I believe the CDC is only requiring contracts at US ports so this will still probably be an issue if you are debarked in any non US port even when sailing from US ports.

[love to cruz]

Does anyone know how it works if you stay a day or two before the cruise in St. Maarten, then a day or two after the cruise in St. Maarten? How will it be possible to get the PCR test done at least 2 days in advance so you can provide the necessary proof? Also do you have to for St. Maarten insurance twice?

[Fouremco]

9 minutes ago, love to cruz said:

Does anyone know how it works if you stay a day or two before the cruise in St. Maarten, then a day or two after the cruise in St. Maarten? How will it be possible to get the PCR test done at least 2 days in advance so you can provide the necessary proof? Also do you have to for St. Maarten insurance twice?

There's a couple of St. Maarten threads that go into this at some length. You should check them out.

[Ken the cruiser]

2 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

I also read between the lines that you are probably personally responsible for finding such accommodations and probably pay for and seek reimbursement.  You can also be required to debark at any port, not just embarkation/debarkation port.

 

I believe the CDC is only requiring contracts at US ports so this will still probably be an issue if you are debarked in any non US port even when sailing from US ports.

Sorry, I might be naive, but I personally don't feel that way when I read their full write-up when it comes to how they plan to apply their Health and Safety protocols once sailing starts back up again in June, especially when it comes to those that test positive for COVID.

 

https://www.celebritycruises.com/health-and-safety

 

But, I will say that its OUR personal responsibility to do everything we can to stay healthy when we start cruising again to include getting vaccinated (check), wearing a mask in public areas (check), and continue to practise social distancing (check), which we naturally do anyway as we pretty much stay to ourselves when we're on a cruise. 

 

But, more to your point, we have a lot more trust in X to do what they say they're going to do than some of the other cruise lines we've sailed on in the past, especially when it comes advocating personal hygiene while onboard their ships.

Edited April 14, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[wrk2cruise]

1 minute ago, Ken the cruiser said:

we have a lot more trust in X to do what they say they're going to do

 

My problem is they really aren't saying what they are going to do.  Why can't they document their tiered protocols with at least a simple FAQ with definitive answers to the basic questions.

[Ken the cruiser]

4 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

My problem is they really aren't saying what they are going to do.  Why can't they document their tiered protocols with at least a simple FAQ with definitive answers to the basic questions.

The only cruises right now that would apply to their tiered protocols would be their startup cruises out of St Maarten,  Athens and Southampton. If we were planning to book on one of those cruises, I would think it would be entirely appropriate to ask X to provide answers to our specific concerns before we decided to book. 

 

But when it comes to X documenting their tiered protocols associated with cruising from US ports, since it's kind of an evolving issue right now, I personally think we're going to have to wait until CDC and the other powers that be give their thumbs up to X's final draft.

[nocl]

49 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

The only cruises right now that would apply to their tiered protocols would be their startup cruises out of St Maarten,  Athens and Southampton. If we were planning to book on one of those cruises, I would think it would be entirely appropriate to ask X to provide answers to our specific concerns before we decided to book. 

 

But when it comes to X documenting their tiered protocols associated with cruising from US ports, since it's kind of an evolving issue right now, I personally think we're going to have to wait until CDC and the other powers that be give their thumbs up to X's final draft.

When and if they ever submit one for the CDC to actually review.

[Ken the cruiser]

Sounds like from this Seatrade article today the Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Port Canaveral authorities are working very hard on resolving some of the key support issues identified in the TIs. Let's hope the CDC thinks so too.

 

According to an FMC release, it was demonstrated that each port was ready to provide onsite testing; that they have protocols and plans in place to evacuate, isolate and treat passengers in need of medical assistance; and that they have coordinated with appropriate authorities and partners to provide vaccinations.

 

FMC's Sola suggests Port Canaveral for crew vaccinations (seatrade-cruise.com)

 

From the CDC front they have updated their cruise advisory, although still at Level 4 (Very High), which also appears to coincide with the before and after COVID testing requirements Celebrity is requiring for cruises leaving out of St Maarten starting in June.

 

For those who do cruise, testing before and after, even if vaccinated:

 

People who decide to cruise should get tested one to three days before travel and after their trip, even if they are fully vaccinated.

 

In addition to testing, passengers who are unvaccinated should self-quarantine for seven days after cruise travel, even if they test negative. If they do not get tested, they should self-quarantine for 10 days. 

 

CDC urges against cruising, advises testing and more for those who go (seatrade-cruise.com)

 

Edited April 14, 2021 by Ken the cruiser

[nocl]

3 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Sounds like from this Seatrade article today the Miami, Ft Lauderdale and Port Canaveral authorities are working very hard on resolving some of the key support issues identified in the TIs. Let's hope the CDC thinks so too.

 

According to an FMC release, it was demonstrated that each port was ready to provide onsite testing; that they have protocols and plans in place to evacuate, isolate and treat passengers in need of medical assistance; and that they have coordinated with appropriate authorities and partners to provide vaccinations.

 

FMC's Sola suggests Port Canaveral for crew vaccinations (seatrade-cruise.com)

 

From the CDC front they have updated their cruise advisory, although still at Level 4 (Very High), which also appears to coincide with the before and after COVID testing requirements Celebrity is requiring for cruises leaving out of St Maarten starting in June.

 

For those who do cruise, testing before and after, even if vaccinated:

 

People who decide to cruise should get tested one to three days before travel and after their trip, even if they are fully vaccinated.

 

In addition to testing, passengers who are unvaccinated should self-quarantine for seven days after cruise travel, even if they test negative. If they do not get tested, they should self-quarantine for 10 days. 

 

CDC urges against cruising, advises testing and more for those who go (seatrade-cruise.com)

 

Good then it should be easy for the cruise lines to get the agreements in place. 

 

Unfortunately I expect the cruise lines reactions to be that since the ports say that they are ready to do it they do not need an agreement.

[Ken the cruiser]

Looks like CDC met with White House staff and cruise line executives on Monday. At least it's a start.

 

CDC Meets with Cruise Industry, White House as Calls for Restart Grows (cruisecritic.com)

[K.T.B.]

Posted this elsewhere, but posting it here as well:

 

 

[TeeRick]

17 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

Posted this elsewhere, but posting it here as well:

 

 

 

Kevin- they forgot to add "Cruise from St. Maarten and Greece".

Edited April 15, 2021 by TeeRick