Vax and Federal Law

[KWW88]

7 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Even if the opinion provided in the first article is judged more compelling than that contained in the second article, it has no bearing on cruising that I can discern. While it might be illegal for a US employer to demand that employees be vaccinated, only partially true, if a vaccine is needed for a particular job, it can be required and asked for proof, also allowed to ask if they have been and request proof in non-essential jobs  or a school to refuse entry to students who have not been vaccinated, the employer/employee and school/student relationships are very different that that between a cruise line and its passengers.

 

[ECCruise]

8 minutes ago, vermonter16 said:

I can give a person a ton of reasons why as well and I would encourage people to get the vaccine.  Although people are laughing at me, I actually went into the trials and received the vaccine months ago because I wanted to help the common good.  But - you would have to determine that this a measles, polio type situation to make the vaccine mandatory and that this is different than the flu over the course of time.  I believe this is different than the flu because it affects people so differently, but you have got to start from the ground up - that is my opinion.  People can continue to laugh if they want, but this whole situation is going to take time and facts and long term statistics to mandate a vaccine federally - at least it should, again, in my opinion.  

First off, thank you for participating in the trial.

I don't think this will be a "forever" requirement, but for the near future it makes sense to require vax for all pax until we get a firm handle on whether we have truly put the virus down, as we largely did with polio, rubella and the like.

[nocl]

10 minutes ago, vermonter16 said:

I can give a person a ton of reasons why as well and I would encourage people to get the vaccine.  Although people are laughing at me, I actually went into the trials and received the vaccine months ago because I wanted to help the common good.  But - you would have to determine that this a measles, polio type situation to make the vaccine mandatory and that this is different than the flu over the course of time.  I believe this is different than the flu because it affects people so differently, but you have got to start from the ground up - that is my opinion.  People can continue to laugh if they want, but this whole situation is going to take time and facts and long term statistics to mandate a vaccine federally - at least it should, again, in my opinion.  

To put this in perspective

 

Before a vaccine was available, polio caused more than 15,000 cases of paralysis a year in the U.S. It was the most feared disease of the 20th century.

 

550,000 deaths   vs 15,000 cases of paralysis per year with polio I think that this is worse than a polio situation

 

similarly with measles

 

There were about 400-500 deaths reported annually in the US during the decade prior to vaccination. Measles, like chickenpox, was contracted by nearly every child before adulthood, making the annual incidence of the disease similar to the birth rate, around 3-4 million cases per year. 

[vermonter16]

15 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

First off, thank you for participating in the trial.

I don't think this will be a "forever" requirement, but for the near future it makes sense to require vax for all pax until we get a firm handle on whether we have truly put the virus down, as we largely did with polio, rubella and the like.

I am all for the cruise lines requiring everyone to have the vaccine - it works for me and it is their perogative.  I am wondering though - they still don't know the length of efficacy of the vaccine....  I have a cruise coming up in January...will have I have to be vaccinated before I take that cruise...and they just don't know the answers to these questions right now and the trials will at least help with some of these questions....I hope.

[Goodtime Cruizin]

9 hours ago, Fogfog said:

Has anyone looked at this?

 

How does this apply?

https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/23/federal-law-prohibits-employers-and-others-from-requiring-vaccination-with-a-covid-19-vaccine-distributed-under-an-eua/

 

 

Hmmm. The Methodist Hospital Group (one of if not the largest hopsital group) in Houston last week issued a letter to all employees and contractors that they must be vaccinated. A deadline date was not issued but scheduling was started. It was reported that 83% had already been vaccinated.

[KWW88]

6 minutes ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

 

Hmmm. The Methodist Hospital Group (one of if not the largest hopsital group) in Houston last week issued a letter to all employees and contractors that they must be vaccinated. A deadline date was not issued but scheduling was started. It was reported that 83% had already been vaccinated.

They can legally do so, and under the conditions these very important people work, I am glad they do.  If an employer requires a vaccine to come back to office et al, the employee says no, which is their right, employer can say OK, you cannot come back. 

[morechances]

Unless I am utilizing the drink package way too often, I believe that every cruise that I have been on has ports in multiple countries.

 

So, should we not consider that the ships have to comply with laws in multiple countries?

 

And I am fairly sure that whether a cruise line, and/or country requires the proof of vaccination, another country will require it.

 

That means that prior to boarding, you will need it. Unless you are planning on getting off the ship part way through a cruise.

[marieps]

5 hours ago, vermonter16 said:

If one opts for the vaccine they shouldn't be worried about others not being vaccinated. 

That's not entirely the case.  The non-vaxed can ruin the cruise by being at greater risk of getting infected.  Ports closed to the ship...cruise cut short.  I'm not worried about getting sick as a vaxed person.  I'm worried about the panic reaction to anyone found infected.

[marieps]

5 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Really??? Over a year into the pandemic and you're still equating it to the flu? SMH

I just Googled it.  SMH is Canadian for *****.  Damn, you folks are polite.  Although you didn't apologize.

Edited April 7, 2021 by marieps

[Fouremco]

4 minutes ago, marieps said:

I just Googled it.  SMH is Canadian for *****.  Damn, you folks are polite.  Although you didn't apologize.

LOL. I'm Shaking My Head over your interpretation. You should know that we would never say *****! 

[MamaFej]

Just now, Fouremco said:

LOL. I'm Shaking My Head over your interpretation. You should know that we would never say *****! 

Thanks. So its exactly the same as in the US. I tried googling to see what it means in Canada, and couldn't find a difference. 

 

I did, however, find a hair color company. I'm pretty sure you don't use their products. 

 

 

(not gonna mention any of my foul-mouthed Canadian friends, especially the ones in Okotoks, AB)

[Fouremco]

8 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

Thanks. So its exactly the same as in the US. I tried googling to see what it means in Canada, and couldn't find a difference. 

 

I did, however, find a hair color company. I'm pretty sure you don't use their products. 

 

 

(not gonna mention any of my foul-mouthed Canadian friends, especially the ones in Okotoks, AB)

It's not nice to shame those of us who are follicly challenged. 😁

[MamaFej]

2 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

It's not nice to shame those of us who are follicly challenged. 😁

NO shame at all, I just figured that folks like you, and my dad, and my husband, probably don't spend much money on hair color. More money for cruising!

[Fouremco]

8 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

NO shame at all, I just figured that folks like you, and my dad, and my husband, probably don't spend much money on hair color. More money for cruising!

Just teasing. I know from reading your many posts that you aren't mean spirited in the least. 

[Globehoppers]

6 hours ago, nocl said:

Except while they can refuse it, there seems to be the little fact that if they refuse they cannot be deployed.

 

The law happens to include this little section.  Which indicates that people must be informed, and they have the right to refuse, but with that refusal may come consequences of which they also must be informed.  Which in the military means blocked from deployment (can we say career impacts) and for an employer could be loss of job.

 

(ii)Appropriate conditions designed to ensure that individuals to whom the product is administered are informed—

(I)

that the Secretary has authorized the emergency use of the product;

(II)

of the significant known and potential benefits and risks of such use, and of the extent to which such benefits and risks are unknown; and

(III)

of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product, of the consequences, if any, of refusing administration of the product, and of the alternatives to the product that are available and of their benefits and risks.

 

The US military is not requiring the vaccine at the moment citing the EUA nature of the vaccine.  The lawyers have apparently won this one.  I disagree with the decision and believe everyone in the military should be vaccinated.  FYI - I served in uniform for 30 years and was vaccinated against just about everything...

Edited April 7, 2021 by Globehoppers

[cheeseheads4ever]

I don’t get what the big deal is about getting the vaccine. Just get it and it will make the world a safer place for all. I feel Cruise Lines have every right to require cruisers to be vaccinated. It’s their company and their right and then it’s your right to not cruise. No vaccination no cruise and to really be honest there is no way a cruise line could take a chance with having people not vaccinated like vermonter16 said “ I will cruise without being vaccinated”. Thats the reason they need to make vaccination mandatory. When you don’t understand the difference between 15,000 flu deaths and 550,000 COVID deaths you can’t put it into the hands of someone thinking like this. Just like the guy that told me tonight masks don’t help! Seriously! Not sure what world he lives in.

[KWW88]

1 minute ago, cheeseheads4ever said:

I don’t get what the big deal is about getting the vaccine. Just get it and it will make the world a safer place for all. I feel Cruise Lines have every right to require cruisers to be vaccinated. It’s their company and their right and then it’s your right to not cruise. No vaccination no cruise and to really be honest there is no way a cruise line could take a chance with having people not vaccinated like vermonter16 said “ I will cruise without being vaccinated”. Thats the reason they need to make vaccination mandatory. When you don’t understand the difference between 15,000 flu deaths and 550,000 COVID deaths you can’t put it into the hands of someone thinking like this. Just like the guy that told me tonight masks don’t help! Seriously! Not sure what world he lives in.

Fortunately, Vermonter won't be able to board a ship, stay home and enjoy a Green Mountain land vacation, they are lovely.

[K.T.B.]

7 minutes ago, KWW88 said:

Fortunately, Vermonter won't be able to board a ship, stay home and enjoy a Green Mountain land vacation, they are lovely.

 

You missed the post where he said that he was apparently in the trials and has already been vaccinated.

[KWW88]

3 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

You missed the post where he said that he was apparently in the trials and has already been vaccinated.

then my bad, and apologies to vermonter!!

[TeeRick]

15 hours ago, vermonter16 said:

I can give a person a ton of reasons why as well and I would encourage people to get the vaccine.  Although people are laughing at me, I actually went into the trials and received the vaccine months ago because I wanted to help the common good.  But - you would have to determine that this a measles, polio type situation to make the vaccine mandatory and that this is different than the flu over the course of time.  I believe this is different than the flu because it affects people so differently, but you have got to start from the ground up - that is my opinion.  People can continue to laugh if they want, but this whole situation is going to take time and facts and long term statistics to mandate a vaccine federally - at least it should, again, in my opinion.  

vermonter16 my comment was in response to Fouremco and his post.  I find him a source of humor sometimes.  Sorry you seem to be offended.  Not my intent.  I agree with you that the COVID vaccine will not be a federal mandate.  I am not sure why this is even a concern to some people. It will not happen IMO.  However, if the vaccine is proven safe in children, some states might eventually add it to the vaccine requirements for public schools and maybe public universities.  We shall see.

[WonderMan3]

7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

vermonter16 my comment was in response to Fouremco and his post.  I find him a source of humor sometimes.  Sorry you seem to be offended.  Not my intent.  I agree with you that the COVID vaccine will not be a federal mandate.  I am not sure why this is even a concern to some people. It will not happen IMO.  However, if the vaccine is proven safe in children, some states might eventually add it to the vaccine requirements for public schools and maybe public universities.  We shall see.

My understanding is that public schools and universities can't do that until it comes off its emergency use status and is fully approved by the FDA. Private schools and universities however can implement whatever rules they want at anytime for vaccine requirement (exceptions for health allergies and legitimate religious medical beliefs).

[hcat]

7 hours ago, TeeRick said:

vermonter16 my comment was in response to Fouremco and his post.  I find him a source of humor sometimes.  Sorry you seem to be offended.  Not my intent.  I agree with you that the COVID vaccine will not be a federal mandate.  I am not sure why this is even a concern to some people. It will not happen IMO.  However, if the vaccine is proven safe in children, some states might eventually add it to the vaccine requirements for public schools and maybe public universities.  We shall see.

 

Curious  how can they prove long term safety for children in a short time frame?

 

Many adults who are not anti vaxers have legit  concerns and questions about the long term vaccine  effects on children..Taking the vaccine themselves is one thing but deciding for children is another.

[PTC DAWG]

On 4/6/2021 at 10:25 AM, Fouremco said:

Even if the opinion provided in the first article is judged more compelling than that contained in the second article, it has no bearing on cruising that I can discern. While it might be illegal for a US employer to demand that employees be vaccinated, or a school to refuse entry to students who have not been vaccinated, the employer/employee and school/student relationships are very different that that between a cruise line and its passengers.

Exactly, very different...

[vermonter16]

8 hours ago, TeeRick said:

vermonter16 my comment was in response to Fouremco and his post.  I find him a source of humor sometimes.  Sorry you seem to be offended.  Not my intent.  I agree with you that the COVID vaccine will not be a federal mandate.  I am not sure why this is even a concern to some people. It will not happen IMO.  However, if the vaccine is proven safe in children, some states might eventually add it to the vaccine requirements for public schools and maybe public universities.  We shall see.

No harm, no foul!  No worries.  Thanks - it was not the best day and I probably shouldn't have been on cruisecritic, lol!  Just being overly sensitive.

[morechances]

2 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

My understanding is that public schools and universities can't do that until it comes off its emergency use status and is fully approved by the FDA. Private schools and universities however can implement whatever rules they want at anytime for vaccine requirement (exceptions for health allergies and legitimate religious medical beliefs).

I am happy to see someone else who qualifies their comments with the word legitimate. 

I have always had a huge problem with people abusing legitimate reasons. Or using a reason when it is convenient.