CDC Open to USA cruise return this Summer

[Pizzasteve]

7 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Actually not true. If what you said was true, the cdc would have already given steps and what is required to get sailing again. The cdc has been slow walking the requirements and some steps are impossible. Sorry but not true. Just opinion not fact based. Without retirements they cant restart. We could already be doing some fully vaccinated cruises by now if not for cdc. I got my 2nd dose beginning of feb. It is the cdc. 

 

Covid is coming under control as each dose is given. Alaska had no deaths last week I heard. NY and NJ lagging the way, but hopefully getting doses in arms.

The data on cases begs to differ with you.  I was a National Practice leader for a big 4 accounting firm in the area of data sciences.  Anecdotes like yours dont persuade PHDs in infectious disease control.

 

Sorry you are delayed getting to the buffet, but controlling deaths is more important.  Specific Cruising risks  were a big factor in the spead of this disease.  Cruise lines neglected the issue a long time, and in fact my wife, an architect,  wrote Princess about this pre pandemic, describing non compliance with health related issues that were a problem on our ship.  Are cruise lines being punished, perhaps, but they brought this on themselves.  Poor air circulation, enclosed spaces, letting obviously sick people roam the ship, not wash hands, cough on food, etc.

Edited April 7, 2021 by Pizzasteve

[sunonfire]

https://cruisefever.net/cruises-are-possible-by-mid-summer-the-cdc-is-now-saying/

[jfunk138]

17 minutes ago, Pizzasteve said:

50 year olds have as high as a 4% death risk, yet are not fully vaccinnated.

A study published today says otherwise:

"the available evidence suggests average global IFR of ~0.15%"

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/eci.13554

"This article has been accepted for publication and undergone full peer review"

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

And, a little more science (relating to risk of infection from a contaminated surface) released by the CDC on Monday:

 

Science Brief: SARS-CoV-2 and Surface (Fomite) Transmission for Indoor Community Environments

 

Findings of these studies suggest that the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection via the fomite transmission route is low, and generally less than 1 in 10,000, which means that each contact with a contaminated surface has less than a 1 in 10,000 chance of causing an infection

[kdr69]

39 minutes ago, Pizzasteve said:

Specific Cruising risks  were a big factor in the spead of this disease.

They may have been a big factor to spread of disease on board when there was no clear understanding of this new virus however they were NOT a big factor in the spread of this disease through the remainder of the world.  They majority of spread was caused by Air Travel passengers returning on International flights.  A situation that is still happening with respect to the new variants and still being ignored.  The Cruise lines were a very small percentage of transmission at the beginning and cannot be attributed to the 2nd or 3rd wave of spread that is prevalent today since there has been no sailings since the initial outbreak.

[dan4182]

Getting back to my original post. I don't understand why airlines can use the same jetways multiple times per day to board and disembark passengers but the cruise lines have to wait 12 hours between disembarkation and embarkation of new passengers on the same gangplank.

 

No hospital exec in his/her right mind would ever agree to obligate their facility to take on an unknown/unknowable amount of prospective patients from an infected cruise ship. The biggest ships hold up to ~6K passengers, more than enough to overwhelm any hospital.

 

The CDC's requirements for cruising are sure a lot more stringent than any required for airline travel.

[Tom-n-Cheryl]

7 minutes ago, dan4182 said:

Getting back to my original post. I don't understand why airlines can use the same jetways multiple times per day to board and disembark passengers but the cruise lines have to wait 12 hours between disembarkation and embarkation of new passengers on the same gangplank.

 

No hospital exec in his/her right mind would ever agree to obligate their facility to take on an unknown/unknowable amount of prospective patients from an infected cruise ship. The biggest ships hold up to ~6K passengers, more than enough to overwhelm any hospital.

 

The CDC's requirements for cruising are sure a lot more stringent than any required for airline travel.

 

Perhaps it's out of sight, out of mind. 

 

With all other modes of travel, people are long gone - free to spread whatever they have with some degree of difficulty to trace.

 

Put a few thousand people on a ship for a few days, and the petri dish effect can be seen (by media too).

 

Having said that, if the crew and guests are vaccinated --- what's the harm??

 

Tom

[jperry2011]

The CDC just proved that this is completely political. 

They could have put out actual guidelines with a return to cruising date months ago.

[bumorgan]

1 hour ago, crewsweeper said:

Well, science and historical evidence have shown us that COVID does not linger on surfaces.  And if you're wearing your scientifically proven ineffective face mask and have had your vaccines and manage to not trigger a false positive off a exit PCR test, there'll be no COVID particles on the gangway to begin with.  

Our college that I work for fogs all the buildings once a week. I'm sure the cruise companies can easily do this also to the terminal and enclosed ramps every week also.

[Tippyton]

3 hours ago, dan4182 said:

 

The most onerous requirement is that the gangways going from the dock to the ship must not be used for 12 hours between disembarking passengers from the previous cruise and embarking new passengers for the next cruise. This might not be a problem for the bigger ports but would be one for the smaller ports.

The requirement that the companies have a signed agreement with a medical facility to accept as many Covid patients as the ship may have is too open ended for most hospitals to want to agree to in advance.

 

...and the same CDC just recently said surfaces are not a source of contamination.

[SNJCruisers]

4 hours ago, kdr69 said:

Why is the CDC requiring different rules for this segment of the Travel Industry vs other segments?

Because cruising is 100% leisure travel, while flying is a mixture of leisure plus corporate travel which is needed to keep the economy running.  Flying is a necessity, cruising is a luxury.

[DarthGrady]

4 hours ago, dan4182 said:

 

The most onerous requirement is that the gangways going from the dock to the ship must not be used for 12 hours between disembarking passengers from the previous cruise and embarking new passengers for the next cruise. This might not be a problem for the bigger ports but would be one for the smaller ports.

The requirement that the companies have a signed agreement with a medical facility to accept as many Covid patients as the ship may have is too open ended for most hospitals to want to agree to in advance.

 

I hadn't heard that one, but they could always go back to the old ways of just letting passengers board from ground level like at a port-of-call. It would be a bit of a pain since the check-in areas are upstairs at most terminals, but better than a 12 hour debark/embark delay. 

[jetsfan58]

Stop the Proverbial "Finger Pointing" and just get the thing done. No matter what the motives of the CDC or the Cruise Industry our safety should be "First" priority. 

[tkportersat]

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I dont even think there is a fair chance of cruising from the US this summer. It's already april. Mock cruises, inspections, 60 day filings ..and that's assuming they have manpower to do inspections in a timely manner. 

 

Cdc will not give up its hold over cruises easily. It's their only real power. Proven idiots. We are the government and here to help you. 

If we can pack into a flying vessel like sardines then cruises should be open for business.  This is all nonsense.  I feel awful that with all these games they are playing so many are without jobs and Ports are losing tourism dollars.  

Edited April 7, 2021 by tkportersat

[Freckle53]

19 hours ago, Tom-n-Cheryl said:

 

I hope so - as that would bode well for August!  😄

 

Tom

Same!  We are August 28th.  Fingers crossed!

 

[Jasonsterling]

What was the original topic here? LOL- I think that we all have a lot of differing opinions on everything and that's especially true of a situation like COVID. I'm not going to debate most of what I see here but I will say this if long distance Amtrak travel is okay in far more confined spaces and in a state of hygiene (as someone who's traveled them) that is far less than any cruise ship I've ever been on then I see no reason why cruising can't restart. We've had untold millions upon millions of positive cases and hundreds of thousands of deaths. I'm not sure having the industry shut down really did all that much in the face of those numbers to abate this disease in any event. I am sure however that if you mandate full vaccinations of crew and passengers that you will have statistically zero new cases and no new deaths. Then people will have the choice of cruising or not cruising based on their opinion of the vaccine and whether they want to take it just as they have to choose with other businesses based on mask requirements but it will at least be a choice. If the CDC was serious about safety and in extending fairness across all industries in their mandates then that is what they would have presented as a plan. People can judge their actions from that standpoint as they wish. 

Edited April 7, 2021 by Jasonsterling

[kdr69]

2 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Because cruising is 100% leisure travel, while flying is a mixture of leisure plus corporate travel which is needed to keep the economy running.  Flying is a necessity, cruising is a luxury.

Sorry but No, Flying Internationally is not a necessity, people just think it is.  If we had truly wanted to stop the spread of a virus that should have been the very first place to start in order to block it from coming into the country.  Again, as i have stated before, this virus did not swim to the US and Canada.  It doesnt have wings, and it didnt come here by Cruise Ship.  It came by Air and continues to come in by Air.  As it can be attributed to the #1 vehicle for spread of a virus in this day and age World wide that should have been the very first thing shut down and kept down to make it harder for Introduction to the population.  Now that its here, Flying Internationally is still an open threat by introducing new variants as currently being demonstrated and there is no way to stop a flood if you dont stop the source of the water. The economy will still run fine without a business trip to another country during this volatile period.  Isnt that what MS Team's is for?  Double Standards have to stop.

[SNJCruisers]

4 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

Sorry but No, Flying Internationally is not a necessity, people just think it is. 

For some companies, there is the occasional international business trip that must be done, so it is a necessity on occasion.  Cruising, on the other hand is a luxury which has nothing to do with corporate travel.

My response was comparing flying and cruising, not how the virus spread over a year ago.

[topaz123]

5 hours ago, jperry2011 said:

The CDC just proved that this is completely political. 

They could have put out actual guidelines with a return to cruising date months ago.

Good point.....why did CDC wait so painfully long to release the roadmap to return sailing?

[toad16X]

7 minutes ago, topaz123 said:

Good point.....why did CDC wait so painfully long to release the roadmap to return sailing?

I left my Government Job to go into private sector. Believe me, it takes weeks to make any kind of decision on any matter. I can see the flip chart, breaking into small groups, etc  just to decide if there is going to be a cheescake served on the ship. These course to return sailing probably ate up months of what if , what might, .....

[BlerkOne]

34 minutes ago, kdr69 said:

  Again, as i have stated before, this virus did not swim to the US and Canada.  It doesnt have wings, and it didnt come here by Cruise Ship.  It came by Air and continues to come in by Air.

It is bidirectional. You also export it by air.

 

But it could have come via cruise ship, cargo ship, train, automobile, submarine, etc. Birds and bats can fly. Fish swim. The virus is not limited to humans.

[parachutes63]

The CDC may give the ok for cruises but, the State of New York, Maryland, California and Washington have to be willing to open the ports for cruising.

[Jamesatgsu]

7 hours ago, jperry2011 said:

The CDC just proved that this is completely political. 

They could have put out actual guidelines with a return to cruising date months ago.

Because it took this long despite 2 vastly different administrations in charge?

 

What did anyone have to gain by not cruising?  

[bafinegan]

1 hour ago, parachutes63 said:

The CDC may give the ok for cruises but, the State of New York, Maryland, California and Washington have to be willing to open the ports for cruising.

Not really.  Florida, Texas, Alabama, and Louisiana ( to name a few)  are eager to open their ports for cruising.

 

[BlerkOne]

8 hours ago, dan4182 said:

Getting back to my original post. I don't understand why airlines can use the same jetways multiple times per day to board and disembark passengers but the cruise lines have to wait 12 hours between disembarkation and embarkation of new passengers on the same gangplank.

 

No hospital exec in his/her right mind would ever agree to obligate their facility to take on an unknown/unknowable amount of prospective patients from an infected cruise ship. The biggest ships hold up to ~6K passengers, more than enough to overwhelm any hospital.

 

The CDC's requirements for cruising are sure a lot more stringent than any required for airline travel.

 

Airlines carry up to hundreds of people, not thousands. Flights last at most hours, not days. You might be in close proximity to a few passengers, not hundreds or thousands. Air in the metal tube is changed multiple times each flight, flushing anything airborne out.

 

Very reassuring to cruise line passengers to know that they will die if there is an outbreak on the ship, as no hospital will accept them. That must mean no port will accept the ship either,

 

I'm glad the CDC is looking out for public health because nobody else is.