CDC Open to USA cruise return this Summer

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, kdr69 said:

How it could have come and how it did are two different things. 

 

Really? I suppose the fish is valid but that is some mighty big stretching. Gophers could have burrowed their way here from China too i guess. Lets not be too hasty to blame Air Travel is that what your defense is?🙄

I don't need a defense. Perhaps you should not be so hasty to exclude options. You might miss something. I can see where NY likely was via air from Europe but can't prove 100% of cases trace to air travel.

 

In the early days cases were showing up in locations in people who had not traveled or would have had other known exposure.

[ProgRockCruiser]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

In the early days cases were showing up in locations in people who had not traveled or would have had other known exposure.

For the few cases I read about it turned out there was an obvious vector, but the people involved either didn't recognize it or purposefully hid it because of ulterior motives (not supposed to be traveling, vector was via illicit activity, etc).  As Dr. House said: "Everybody lies."

 

I'm sure there were a few that are still not connected to obvious vectors, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

[DCGuy64]

5 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

As Dr. House said: "Everybody lies."

Which begs the question: if cruise lines require proof of vaccination, what form will that take, and how easily can people forge it?

[BlerkOne]

8 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

For the few cases I read about it turned out there was an obvious vector, but the people involved either didn't recognize it or purposefully hid it because of ulterior motives (not supposed to be traveling, vector was via illicit activity, etc).  As Dr. House said: "Everybody lies."

 

I'm sure there were a few that are still not connected to obvious vectors, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Proof by obfuscation?

'

[bingomamma19]

On 4/7/2021 at 9:40 AM, Pizzasteve said:

Scientifically proven ineffective mask?  What the hell does that mean?  Masks reduce community spead and have been shown by data over and over to be effective at reducing disease. Contries that complied with masks, like Japan, have almost no Covid.  What science are you referring to?

 

Why do medical professionals wear masks in surgery if they are ineffective?  Comments like these by intelligent adults completely baffle me. The politicization, 'freedom' angle is so stupid.  Its such a minor inconvenience, yet chest beating idiots want to fight to prove something about their ego.  So odd.  And 'deep government'  geeze....stop reading social media.  Its rotting your brain.  Intentional misinformation to keep you triggered and voting for someone is why you parrot those carefully engineered catch phrases.

Japans cases are on the rise right now.    And they had a large spike a few months ago ...nowhere near "almost no covid"

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Which begs the question: if cruise lines require proof of vaccination, what form will that take, and how easily can people forge it?

If you make the penalty for forgery greater than the reward for forgery and chance of getting caught, would it be a problem?

[ProgRockCruiser]

1 minute ago, DCGuy64 said:

Which begs the question: if cruise lines require proof of vaccination, what form will that take, and how easily can people forge it?

Indeed. If foreign ports will require proof, how stringent will their documentation policy be?

 

I'm guessing (hoping?) the ratio of those cruisers with "forgeries" to actual truthful vaccination cruisers will be relatively low - the vast majority of folks I know want the vaccine, whether for personal choice or because they fully expect it to be required as part of the professional or private life.

[jfunk138]

2 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Which begs the question: if cruise lines require proof of vaccination, what form will that take, and how easily can people forge it?

I suspect this will end up being another "booze smuggling" topic for cruiselines.  They are probably hoping Bahamas mandates vaccination so their customs folks can take care of the problem for them.

[bingomamma19]

18 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

For some companies, there is the occasional international business trip that must be done, so it is a necessity on occasion.  Cruising, on the other hand is a luxury which has nothing to do with corporate travel.

My response was comparing flying and cruising, not how the virus spread over a year ago.

No company meeting in person is a must...we have zoom and anything can be done via phone or computers for meetings.   

[jetsfan58]

6 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Which begs the question: if cruise lines require proof of vaccination, what form will that take, and how easily can people forge it?

I hope that each State is recording the records in a local database. Can be easily pulled up if verification is required. I wouldn't concern myself with "Extra" time in line because once we get started Cruising again there will be record times spent in line prior to Boarding. Trust me.

[jfunk138]

3 minutes ago, bingomamma19 said:

Japans cases are on the rise right now.    And they had a large spike a few months ago ...nowhere near "almost no covid"

Japan's outbreak, while bad, is peanuts compared to another Asian country... check out Philippines.

[bingomamma19]

13 hours ago, SNJCruisers said:

Forgetting Florida, Texas and NJ?

Also...Governor Newsom in Ca said the state will fully open as of June 15th.   No restrictions

[Radiioman46]

If you read what the CDC said, it confirms that the CDC will not relent on the cruise industry bypassing it's demands. So, in short, that means there will be no sailings this summer, unless, the CDC caves in it's demands, or the Cruise Lines cave.

 

This proves to me that there is something else going on with the CDC that we don't know about. Hopefully, time will tell.

Edited April 8, 2021 by Radiioman46

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, jetsfan58 said:

I hope that each State is recording the records in a local database

Yeah, that's not scary at all, LOL. 😆

I know some pretty hard core libertarians who have problems with government databases. While that might be an effective solution, the concept of the "law of unintended consequences" comes into play here. I think there are likely more than a few people out there who are less concerned with the vaccinations themselves than the potential risk to their private health information being inadvertently exposed due to hackers, etc.

[ProgRockCruiser]

3 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Proof by obfuscation?

'

No, simply applying Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is most likely the right one.

 

People were flying a lot when this all started up.  It wasn't like there was an announcement on a certain day that the virus now suddenly existed (having never existed before) and all travel was curtailed - folks flew for months acting as vectors before the virus was being reported.  And they visited and infected others, who traveled and visited and infected others.  So for it to be found in some back-country county in Colorado (I think that was one of the early curious cases) without obvious recent vectors probably means that it was there for a while, perhaps being passed asymptomatically for the most part, or passed via normal methods like UPS drivers going from hub to hub (for example, I am not saying that was the case), or via ski resorts.  See this article, for example:

 

https://www.uchealth.org/today/covid-19-likely-in-colorado-way-before-march/

[BlerkOne]

7 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Japan's outbreak, while bad, is peanuts compared to another Asian country... check out Philippines.

 

Although the spike in infections might be linked to the emergence of more transmissible new variants of the coronavirus, the health department has also blamed Filipinos, saying they were not sticking to health safety protocols as they once had.

More than a year into the pandemic, people have grown tired of wearing face masks and protective face shields, staying indoors, and avoiding social gatherings, health officials said.

But the emergence of new coronavirus variants in the country could pose even bigger challenges to its health officials who have struggled to contain the pandemic.

[BlerkOne]

3 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

No, simply applying Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is most likely the right one.

 

 

So people exhibiting flu like symptoms must have the flu and not some new, previously unknown disease like Covid 19? Occam's razor sometimes cuts.

[bingomamma19]

17 minutes ago, jfunk138 said:

Japan's outbreak, while bad, is peanuts compared to another Asian country... check out Philippines.

The poster i was referring to said Japan had "almost no covid"...having thousands a day is not almost no covid.  

[Jobeth66]

37 minutes ago, bingomamma19 said:

No company meeting in person is a must...we have zoom and anything can be done via phone or computers for meetings.   

My son travels for work, all over the world.  He can't have zoom or phone meetings because of the nature of his job (which involves physical inspection of equipment and is highly specialized.  He's one of 2 people in his company that have the certifications needed to undertake the work).  So you can't generalize and say NOBODY has to travel for work.  

[Stallion]

The City of Miami has had thousands of cases a day too since Spring Break

 

Deaths Per Million:

 

United States 1,731

Japan 74

 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Stallion

[IntrepidFromDC]

3 hours ago, SRQbeachgirl said:

 

I saw the same thing several months ago when I flew out of both Washington-Dulles and Reagan airports, which are in a solidly "deep blue" area so it can't be blamed on "Oh, well it's Texas and Florida..." Heck, you could practically throw a rock from Reagan and hit the CDC offices in D.C. I used the same gangway just minutes after people disembarked from the same airplane I got onto, so the 12-hour requirement the CDC has put on cruise gangways is absolute bunk and IMO is just a roadblock the CDC has thrown in to make it more difficult for the cruise lines to get started.    

If you can throw a rock across the Potomac River from VA to DC, The Nats want you.

[kdr69]

49 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I don't need a defense. Perhaps you should not be so hasty to exclude options. You might miss something. I can see where NY likely was via air from Europe but can't prove 100% of cases trace to air travel.

 

In the early days cases were showing up in locations in people who had not traveled or would have had other known exposure.

Origin of Virus is confirmed as fact to be China.  Happy to listen to your explanation of how it got spread World Wide without International Air Travel in such a short time period.  Contact Tracing depends on the persons memory of where and what they were doing, what they touched, who they stood next to, etc etc etc  2 weeks prior.  There are literally 10's if not 100's of thousands of cases where people have no idea how they got it.  Im not talking about spread once it hit the ground but from the initial point of release.  Which is also confirmed to have been Air Passenger Travel both in the case of the Original Virus and its current variants. 

[kdr69]

1 hour ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

I'm sure there were a few that are still not connected to obvious vectors, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Apparently only certain evidence is evidence these days.

[bingomamma19]

10 minutes ago, Jobeth66 said:

My son travels for work, all over the world.  He can't have zoom or phone meetings because of the nature of his job (which involves physical inspection of equipment and is highly specialized.  He's one of 2 people in his company that have the certifications needed to undertake the work).  So you can't generalize and say NOBODY has to travel for work.  

I was referring to company meetings that the previous poster stated.    I didnt say NOBODY has to travel for work...i said nobody has to travel for corporate meetings

[Jasonsterling]

1 hour ago, jetsfan58 said:

I hope that each State is recording the records in a local database. Can be easily pulled up if verification is required. I wouldn't concern myself with "Extra" time in line because once we get started Cruising again there will be record times spent in line prior to Boarding. Trust me.

In my state it's recorded with the health department. I don't know what form verification would take exactly but when I was vaccinated recently we were given a vaccination card just like kids receive for school- if it satisfies the school system it should do for cruising. Is that a perfect system- no. Does it leave room for possible forgery (just like anything else) yes. However, it's a good enough compromise that it should suffice. The incident of forgery would be statistically low enough to not cause an impact, especially if the vast number of other people are vaccinated. If you "forget" it at home it should be handled just like "forgetting" any other sort of identification or credit card or anything else. What if you forget your I.D. when you go to the airport? You don't get to board the plane. Same thing here.  

Edited April 8, 2021 by Jasonsterling