Rare ontheweb Posted April 13, 2021 #176 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, chengkp75 said: I'm not an epidemiologist, so I wouldn't know. But they are. That has not stopped anyone else from posting their "expertise". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mredandchis Posted April 13, 2021 #177 Share Posted April 13, 2021 On 4/12/2021 at 9:05 AM, chengkp75 said: Thanks, Captain Obvious. What they are concerned with is someone stepping off a ship and starting a super spreader event, when that person could have been identified outside the US and not allowed back in, or transferred to a quarantine location. How are they going to start a super spreader event? in 2020 I can understand that fear totally, but I just cant see it when summer comes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProgRockCruiser Posted April 13, 2021 #178 Share Posted April 13, 2021 38 minutes ago, mredandchis said: How are they going to start a super spreader event? in 2020 I can understand that fear totally, but I just cant see it when summer comes. The CDC has to deal with the here-and-now, vs what we think/hope might happen. I expect (hope?) the CDC will modify its stance in a few months, perhaps by start of June, saying something like "we still urge caution and common sense protective measures, but cruising can resume by 1 July [or 1 Sept, or whatever...], as long as pax over 16 years old and crew are fully vaccinated". But I can see their point - if you looked at how Germany was doing in late-Feb, you might have been tempted to predict that with more vaccine production the virus was going to be beaten down. Instead, their vaccine rollout has been underwhelming, and they fear another wave as frustrations boil over at the prospect of even tighter lockdowns. Meanwhile, the UK, which was doing far worse than Germany in late-Feb, has succeeded in bringing down their numbers to "almost" background noise, and has now eased restrictions significantly - because they did have a solid vaccine supply and maybe their lockdown worked better. So if the US can get numbers down to the UK rates, I would be disappointed if the CDC didn't support a return to cruising. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mredandchis Posted April 13, 2021 #179 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, ProgRockCruiser said: The CDC has to deal with the here-and-now, vs what we think/hope might happen. I expect (hope?) the CDC will modify its stance in a few months, perhaps by start of June, saying something like "we still urge caution and common sense protective measures, but cruising can resume by 1 July [or 1 Sept, or whatever...], as long as pax over 16 years old and crew are fully vaccinated". But I can see their point - if you looked at how Germany was doing in late-Feb, you might have been tempted to predict that with more vaccine production the virus was going to be beaten down. Instead, their vaccine rollout has been underwhelming, and they fear another wave as frustrations boil over at the prospect of even tighter lockdowns. Meanwhile, the UK, which was doing far worse than Germany in late-Feb, has succeeded in bringing down their numbers to "almost" background noise, and has now eased restrictions significantly - because they did have a solid vaccine supply and maybe their lockdown worked better. So if the US can get numbers down to the UK rates, I would be disappointed if the CDC didn't support a return to cruising. I think you are right in that we 'hope" things improve. The vaccine roll out has been underwhelming for sure but it is a huge job. The UK are doing a good job thus far but are not by any means outta the woods. I am very much in favor of opening up but the UK is just a little ahead of themselves. Israel has made the most solid inroads to controlling this plague. The virus is being forced back by herd immunity there. It is becoming so much back round noise. The infection coefficent is .72 which is great and they are still attempting to get more people to take the jab. The new cases , hospital cases and deaths are all still dropping. Israel is probably one of the safest places on the planet in regards to Covid 19 and yet here is a CDC link on travel to Israel. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices/covid-4/coronavirus-israel. So lets not get our hopes up that the CDC has our best interest at heart. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlerkOne Posted April 14, 2021 #180 Share Posted April 14, 2021 4 hours ago, mredandchis said: So lets not get our hopes up that the CDC has our best interest at heart. The CDC is certainly more qualified than any politician, and it's their JOB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mredandchis Posted April 14, 2021 #181 Share Posted April 14, 2021 28 minutes ago, BlerkOne said: The CDC is certainly more qualified than any politician, and it's their JOB. The CDC is just another bureaucracy and I also have zero faith in politicians. I watch action and thus far the CDC under the last and the current administration is an abomination. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bingomamma19 Posted April 14, 2021 #182 Share Posted April 14, 2021 On 4/8/2021 at 12:44 PM, SNJCruisers said: Just because your company can handle things via zoom doesn't necessarily mean that every industry works the same way. What about skilled white collar employees who are inspectors that need hands on expertise to do their job? Take the blinders off, there are other corporate needs out there besides sitting around a boardroom table and participating in a zoom meeting. I said "meetings" not hands on jobs that need to be done.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNJCruisers Posted April 14, 2021 #183 Share Posted April 14, 2021 1 hour ago, bingomamma19 said: I said "meetings" not hands on jobs that need to be done.... And I was talking about corporate travel in general, covering all aspects, not just sitting around a boardroom table, sipping coffee and engaging in zoom meetings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoneman69 Posted April 15, 2021 #184 Share Posted April 15, 2021 On 4/11/2021 at 6:50 PM, harkinmr said: I think you are getting ahead of yourself. The CDC has not mandated vaccines for cruising, and has explicitly said that they will not. A vaccine mandate is up to the cruise lines. I would assume that any mandate to start would include a requirement that the vaccine received would be approved as per the FDA. If that includes a booster, then it is what it is. Looking to blame that on the CDC is disingenuous. Maybe but is it asking to much of them to publish proper procedures with dates and time lines ? being vague is not helping anyone at this point. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harkinmr Posted April 15, 2021 #185 Share Posted April 15, 2021 1 hour ago, phoneman69 said: Maybe but is it asking to much of them to publish proper procedures with dates and time lines ? being vague is not helping anyone at this point. Ok. What? The post you quoted had to do with vaccine requirements. Nothing else. Are you asking a rhetorical question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlerkOne Posted April 15, 2021 #186 Share Posted April 15, 2021 1 hour ago, phoneman69 said: Maybe but is it asking to much of them to publish proper procedures with dates and time lines ? being vague is not helping anyone at this point. I believe they have published guideline with perhaps the foolish belief that cruise lines know their business and would propose how they can mitigate best the risk of covid. I believe NCL has been the only cruise line with a serious proposal and that was recently. I imagine the CDC is analyzing There are a number of ways to do scheduling, but to start with a completion date and work backwards is about the worst way you can do it. A schedule slip is guaranteed. The CDC has identified some tasks and timings 30 days to propose test cruises and then 60 days. Everybody knew this was coming - why didn't all cruise lines already have something prepared? I think they know cruising as we knew it won't happen for years, if ever. Cruising from the US hasn't begun, but I can already imagine the whining when people experience the post-covid cruise blues. And that pesky judgement against Carnival isn't going away - why hasn't Carnival done much to satisfy that? It has nothing to do with Covid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlerkOne Posted April 15, 2021 #187 Share Posted April 15, 2021 So much for miracles... About 5,800 people who have been vaccinated against coronavirus have become infected anyway, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tells CNN. Some became seriously ill and 74 people died, the CDC said. It said 396 -- 7% -- of those who got infected after they were vaccinated required hospitalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BoozinCroozin Posted April 15, 2021 #188 Share Posted April 15, 2021 The CDC has finally proven that they are basing everything on whatever narrative they want to use. Yesterday they attacked the airline industry with the middle seats. The CDC stated that eliminating the middle seats will reduce the spread of covid by 50%. Now, you have to dig into what they stated a little bit here. First, 90% of the US population have less than a 9th grade math level. I am not trying to pick on people here, but this is about what it is. With the CDC making this statement, many people that have believed them will believe this statement as fact. Now, lets blow up this statement with the real facts: The CDC did absolutely no scientific fact or data checking for this statement. They have no data on the spread of covid from the airlines let alone ANY data on flights that wound up transmitting covid, where people sat, and whether seats were occupied or not. They didn't even fact check their own "out of thin air" math. By eliminating the middle seat, you do not REDUCE the chances by 50%, it is 33%. You are removing 1 out of 3 passengers. The proper 6th grade math is that your chances INCREASE by 50% if the middle seat is uses (3 passengers in a row instead of 2). The comment doesn't even take into account families that have lived together, no social distancing or anything occupying those seats. You could not even come up with an acceptable standard deviation to calculate this into the equation. This is the problem we have in this country. The CDC and media are simply here to shock the uneducated and see how many lemmings there are. Do you know how many people now actually take this as fact? A massive majority because they cannot even think to question the CDC or do the simple math to correct the CDC. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz123 Posted April 15, 2021 #189 Share Posted April 15, 2021 2 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said: The CDC has finally proven that they are basing everything on whatever narrative they want to use. Yesterday they attacked the airline industry with the middle seats. The CDC stated that eliminating the middle seats will reduce the spread of covid by 50%. Now, you have to dig into what they stated a little bit here. First, 90% of the US population have less than a 9th grade math level. I am not trying to pick on people here, but this is about what it is. With the CDC making this statement, many people that have believed them will believe this statement as fact. Now, lets blow up this statement with the real facts: The CDC did absolutely no scientific fact or data checking for this statement. They have no data on the spread of covid from the airlines let alone ANY data on flights that wound up transmitting covid, where people sat, and whether seats were occupied or not. They didn't even fact check their own "out of thin air" math. By eliminating the middle seat, you do not REDUCE the chances by 50%, it is 33%. You are removing 1 out of 3 passengers. The proper 6th grade math is that your chances INCREASE by 50% if the middle seat is uses (3 passengers in a row instead of 2). The comment doesn't even take into account families that have lived together, no social distancing or anything occupying those seats. You could not even come up with an acceptable standard deviation to calculate this into the equation. This is the problem we have in this country. The CDC and media are simply here to shock the uneducated and see how many lemmings there are. Do you know how many people now actually take this as fact? A massive majority because they cannot even think to question the CDC or do the simple math to correct the CDC. IT's all about the CONTROL....Keep the pot stirred. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toad16X Posted April 15, 2021 #190 Share Posted April 15, 2021 16 minutes ago, topaz123 said: IT's all about the CONTROL....Keep the pot stirred. Possible return with CDC recommendations for cruisers. HAZMAT Suits... 7901949-21.webp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsfan58 Posted April 15, 2021 #191 Share Posted April 15, 2021 On 4/13/2021 at 11:08 PM, mredandchis said: Ok Population of Israel is 9 mill plus and the US is doing 3.2 million jabs a day. What does either have to do with the other???? if you are trying to make a point I have missed it. New Jerseys population is near the same as Israel. They had 4848 new cases yesterday and Israel had 225 . All other significant numbers are similarly large for NJ and extremely low for Israel. But the CDC will warn all persons that Israel is extremely dangerous for travel. An organization that will determine that isn't one that should be blindly trusted. Lets not forget the State of Florida where we are all hoping to get back to Cruising. This week it was reported that they had very high spikes in the number of cases. It's far from being "Over" folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julienatul Posted April 15, 2021 #192 Share Posted April 15, 2021 On 4/13/2021 at 12:59 PM, BlerkOne said: I'd like to see some proof of that. https://www.cntraveler.com/story/how-cruise-lines-have-adapted-to-sailing-during-coronavirus https://cruising.org/-/media/Facts and Resources/CLIA_Health and Safety-Factsheet_June 2020_Global Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlerkOne Posted April 15, 2021 #193 Share Posted April 15, 2021 5 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said: The CDC has finally proven that they are basing everything on whatever narrative they want to use. Yesterday they attacked the airline industry with the middle seats. The CDC stated that eliminating the middle seats will reduce the spread of covid by 50%. Now, you have to dig into what they stated a little bit here. First, 90% of the US population have less than a 9th grade math level. I am not trying to pick on people here, but this is about what it is. With the CDC making this statement, many people that have believed them will believe this statement as fact. Now, lets blow up this statement with the real facts: The CDC did absolutely no scientific fact or data checking for this statement. They have no data on the spread of covid from the airlines let alone ANY data on flights that wound up transmitting covid, where people sat, and whether seats were occupied or not. They didn't even fact check their own "out of thin air" math. By eliminating the middle seat, you do not REDUCE the chances by 50%, it is 33%. You are removing 1 out of 3 passengers. The proper 6th grade math is that your chances INCREASE by 50% if the middle seat is uses (3 passengers in a row instead of 2). The comment doesn't even take into account families that have lived together, no social distancing or anything occupying those seats. You could not even come up with an acceptable standard deviation to calculate this into the equation. This is the problem we have in this country. The CDC and media are simply here to shock the uneducated and see how many lemmings there are. Do you know how many people now actually take this as fact? A massive majority because they cannot even think to question the CDC or do the simple math to correct the CDC. What nonsense. Your logic isn't. If you don't use middle seats, you eliminate a third of the people but not a third of the risk. The spread of virus depends a number of factors including distancing. By not using middle seats, you increase the separation distance and decrease the risk. It has little to do with the number of people on the plane. A 777 carries more people than a 737, but either one could have higher risk depending on spacing. OR they could have the same. So how many lemmings are there? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare DCGuy64 Posted April 15, 2021 #194 Share Posted April 15, 2021 7 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said: The CDC has finally proven that they are basing everything on whatever narrative they want to use. Yesterday they attacked the airline industry with the middle seats. The CDC stated that eliminating the middle seats will reduce the spread of covid by 50%. Now, you have to dig into what they stated a little bit here. First, 90% of the US population have less than a 9th grade math level. I am not trying to pick on people here, but this is about what it is. With the CDC making this statement, many people that have believed them will believe this statement as fact. Now, lets blow up this statement with the real facts: The CDC did absolutely no scientific fact or data checking for this statement. They have no data on the spread of covid from the airlines let alone ANY data on flights that wound up transmitting covid, where people sat, and whether seats were occupied or not. They didn't even fact check their own "out of thin air" math. By eliminating the middle seat, you do not REDUCE the chances by 50%, it is 33%. You are removing 1 out of 3 passengers. The proper 6th grade math is that your chances INCREASE by 50% if the middle seat is uses (3 passengers in a row instead of 2). The comment doesn't even take into account families that have lived together, no social distancing or anything occupying those seats. You could not even come up with an acceptable standard deviation to calculate this into the equation. This is the problem we have in this country. The CDC and media are simply here to shock the uneducated and see how many lemmings there are. Do you know how many people now actually take this as fact? A massive majority because they cannot even think to question the CDC or do the simple math to correct the CDC. ^^^^^ This. I don't gamble, but if I did, I'd be willing to say that within hours, if not minutes, some self-important bozo is going to take this "proof" by the CDC and proclaim it like it's the Holy Gospel. You are absolutely right, it's all about taking an uneducated populace and feeding it lies and half-truths just to see how much BS they'll buy. Based on the past, I'd say a lot. And more's the pity. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennyFla Posted April 15, 2021 #195 Share Posted April 15, 2021 Just announced: Congresswoman Doris Matsui and U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal have sent a letter to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, urging her to strictly enforce recently issued safety guidance under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and immediately halt cruises if outbreaks occur onboard. They lawmakers said the premature resumption of cruise ship operations could threaten public safety and increase the spread of the coronavirus, https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24792-u-s-politicians-urge-cdc-to-keep-cruise-industry-closed.html This is now pure politics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisingguy007 Posted April 15, 2021 #196 Share Posted April 15, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said: ^^^^^ This. I don't gamble, but if I did, I'd be willing to say that within hours, if not minutes, some self-important bozo is going to take this "proof" by the CDC and proclaim it like it's the Holy Gospel. You are absolutely right, it's all about taking an uneducated populace and feeding it lies and half-truths just to see how much BS they'll buy. Based on the past, I'd say a lot. And more's the pity. This (quite literally) has been going on for the last four and a half years. Nothing new. Edited April 15, 2021 by cruisingguy007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisingguy007 Posted April 15, 2021 #197 Share Posted April 15, 2021 8 hours ago, BoozinCroozin said: The CDC has finally proven that they are basing everything on whatever narrative they want to use. Yesterday they attacked the airline industry with the middle seats. The CDC stated that eliminating the middle seats will reduce the spread of covid by 50%. Now, you have to dig into what they stated a little bit here. First, 90% of the US population have less than a 9th grade math level. I am not trying to pick on people here, but this is about what it is. With the CDC making this statement, many people that have believed them will believe this statement as fact. Now, lets blow up this statement with the real facts: The CDC did absolutely no scientific fact or data checking for this statement. They have no data on the spread of covid from the airlines let alone ANY data on flights that wound up transmitting covid, where people sat, and whether seats were occupied or not. They didn't even fact check their own "out of thin air" math. By eliminating the middle seat, you do not REDUCE the chances by 50%, it is 33%. You are removing 1 out of 3 passengers. The proper 6th grade math is that your chances INCREASE by 50% if the middle seat is uses (3 passengers in a row instead of 2). The comment doesn't even take into account families that have lived together, no social distancing or anything occupying those seats. You could not even come up with an acceptable standard deviation to calculate this into the equation. This is the problem we have in this country. The CDC and media are simply here to shock the uneducated and see how many lemmings there are. Do you know how many people now actually take this as fact? A massive majority because they cannot even think to question the CDC or do the simple math to correct the CDC. Some people love the poorly educated and the poorly educated love them back. It's a symbiotic relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mredandchis Posted April 15, 2021 #198 Share Posted April 15, 2021 3 hours ago, BlerkOne said: What nonsense. Your logic isn't. If you don't use middle seats, you eliminate a third of the people but not a third of the risk. The spread of virus depends a number of factors including distancing. By not using middle seats, you increase the separation distance and decrease the risk. It has little to do with the number of people on the plane. A 777 carries more people than a 737, but either one could have higher risk depending on spacing. OR they could have the same. So how many lemmings are there? You must be right , an 18 inch seat is the same as 6 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare DCGuy64 Posted April 15, 2021 #199 Share Posted April 15, 2021 1 hour ago, KennyFla said: Just announced: Congresswoman Doris Matsui and U.S. Senator Richard Blumenthal have sent a letter to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky, urging her to strictly enforce recently issued safety guidance under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order (CSO) and immediately halt cruises if outbreaks occur onboard. They lawmakers said the premature resumption of cruise ship operations could threaten public safety and increase the spread of the coronavirus, https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/24792-u-s-politicians-urge-cdc-to-keep-cruise-industry-closed.html This is now pure politics. Well, the silver lining is this: if it's true that the pleas of Gov DeSantis and Florida's Senators to open up the cruising industry are doomed to fall on deaf ears (as many people on here have claimed), I guess Rep Matsui and Sen Blumenthal's efforts will similarly be in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BlerkOne Posted April 15, 2021 #200 Share Posted April 15, 2021 6 minutes ago, mredandchis said: You must be right , an 18 inch seat is the same as 6 feet. It beats rubbing elbows for control of an armrest. Lot of lemming meringue pie on the faces of tin foil hats today. 6 feet would be better. Driving your personal car less risky for covid but not safer than flying for getting there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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