Flying to the Caribbean?

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

 

It is the silliest thing thus far, having to fly to a Caribbean island for a seven day cruise in the Caribbean. Instead of sailing out of Florida, we are being forced by the CDC to fly out of the US to sail in the Caribbean. We are US citizens, fully vaccinated, and need to endure flying for the same cruises we would normally sail out of a Florida, Texas, New York or California port. We are the same people that would cruise out of these ports. And, remember we will return to the US, by air, when the cruise is completed. 
Enough is enough! Hundreds of thousands of cruise related workers cannot earn an honest living because of the CDC. There are many safety procedures being proposed. The CDC must have an honest conversation with the cruise lines. 
It’s time to open the ports in the US for cruise ships!

[Jancruz]

What your saying is exactly what the cruise lines are trying to do..but the CDC is impossible to deal with..

Jancruz1

[Bellaggio Cruisers]

57 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

What your saying is exactly what the cruise lines are trying to do..but the CDC is impossible to deal with..

Jancruz1

Any reason why the CDC allows non vaccinated flyers to pack airports, take crowded flights, pushed together like sardines?
But, we cannot cruise from US ports with all the social distancing and only fully vaccinated folks aboard!

What’s wrong with the picture?

[pinotlover]

We need to stop blaming the Offensive Coordinator for the defense giving up too many rushing yards.

 

The offensive coordinator deals with what happens on the offensive side of the ball and the defensive coordinator handles the defense. You have a Head coach that looks at the big picture and decides what’s best done overall.

 

Fauci and the CDC chiefs have very clearly stated they do NOT consider economic consequences in any of their decisions. It’s not in their purview. How hard is that to grasp? The Geriatric in Chief also has an Economic Advisory team to counsel him on those, and all, economic consequences. If the Geriatric in Chief decides to only listen to the CDC and ignore his economic advisors, it’s not the CDC’s fault. The CDC is not the omnipotent force here, the Geriatric in Chief is. The day that HE decides cruising will start back, it will. Yet probably not a day sooner.

 

For those of you with short term memory remaining, this is the reason the cruise line chiefs set up the meeting with VP ( at the time) Pence trying to end run the CDC. Take it over their heads.

 

Put the blame and frustration where the blame belongs, where the buck actually stops.

Edited April 10, 2021 by pinotlover

[Aloha 1]

FDR was on Cavuto this morning and reiterated that NCLH had submitted all their plans to the CDC weeks ago in response to the CDC's requirements. He 1 upped the CDC by stating that only vaccinated passengers and crew would be allowed on board. Response from the CDC? Crickets.

[clo]

1 hour ago, Jancruz said:

What your saying is exactly what the cruise lines are trying to do..but the CDC is impossible to deal with..

Jancruz1

NO THEY'RE NOT! Cases are rising. Do facts not stand in your way when you want to do something?

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/04/09/covid-cases-deaths-are-rising-all-over-the-world/

[clo]

49 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

Any reason why the CDC allows non vaccinated flyers to pack airports, take crowded flights, pushed together like sardines?
But, we cannot cruise from US ports with all the social distancing and only fully vaccinated folks aboard!

What’s wrong with the picture?

I'm not sure what the longest flight is. Nineteen hours? We've done 14. Are there any cruises that short? Do you really not understand the difference?

[TrulyBlonde]

6 minutes ago, clo said:

NO THEY'RE NOT! Cases are rising. Do facts not stand in your way when you want to do something?

 

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/04/09/covid-cases-deaths-are-rising-all-over-the-world/

Please quit screaming at @Jancruzwith your huge Cap letters. It ruins everyones day on a continuous basis.

[pinotlover]

23 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Please quit screaming at @Jancruzwith your huge Cap letters. It ruins everyones day on a continuous basis.

What is beyond Clo’s grasp is that the only way to stop this pandemic is vaccination. Cave dwelling won’t stop it because at some point people have to come out of their caves.

 

What FDR, and others, have proposed are sailings with only vaccinated passengers. That is as safe as it will ever get. To people like Fauci, and Clo, it will never be safe enough. Any risk is excessive risk. There is no compromise.

 

The risks on a fully vaccinated ship is entirely different than the general risks in a population with 20% or less vaccinated. There is absolutely still risks today for the unvaccinated. Those risks shouldn’t be confused with the risks within a fully vaccinated group. It that isn’t so, why risk the side effects of vaccination?

 

The odds of a group of swimmers that have passed a swimming class drowning after jumping into the deep end of the pool is different than those that can’t swim. Most of us understand and accept that. Clo and Fauci don’t. No compromises, just move on.

[Ride-The-Waves]

This is a topic that has been rehashed and rehashed to death by OP.  No body is listening so just start a new thread.  Nuts!  

 

The CDC has one mission and that is to keep Americans medically safe at home and abroad.  Cruise lines are foreign entities incorporated outside of the US to avoid taxes and labor laws.  If they don't want to accommodate CDC guidance that can go elsewhere.  But they can't go to Europe since the EU is basically seeing the health situation as CDC.  We are frequent cruisers but have no sympathy for how the cruise lines have reacted to the safety and security of North American passengers, or European passengers for that matter.  None of them have provided a complete accounting of how they will respond to the requirements to keep passengers and crew safe, or respond to an outbreak.  None of them have fully vaccinated crews.  Some say they just don't like/want the oversight of their operations, which is likely at least partially true.  

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Aloha 1 said:

FDR was on Cavuto this morning and reiterated that NCLH had submitted all their plans to the CDC weeks ago in response to the CDC's requirements. He 1 upped the CDC by stating that only vaccinated passengers and crew would be allowed on board. Response from the CDC? Crickets.

If NCLH "had submitted all their plans to the CDC weeks ago" why is it that this morning is the first time  anyone has heard about it? Why is it that FDR did not say that in the letter he sent to the CDC this week?  (The letter is included in this SEC filing : https://www.nclhltdinvestor.com/static-files/4bafe84e-bab9-46e6-bc40-f70917140639 ). The answer is that NCLH has never submitted its plans to the CDC after the CSO was adopted by the CDC at the end of October . In fact the cruise lines have complained that they were unable to submit their plans to the CDC because the CDC still needed to provide additional guidance , some of which was only provided a couple of days ago just prior to when FDR sent his letter to the CDC.

 

Either FDR was being less than truthful during this television appearance or you're not accurately reporting what he said.

[Tranquility Base]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

None of them have fully vaccinated crews.  

This will be interesting to watch the progress over the next couple of months.

 

With the majority of countries around the World suffering vaccine delivery problems, vaccination logistic problems, many are nowhere near having their own at risk populations vaccinated.

 

Also, with more countries putting age guidelines on the recommended use of at least one major vaccine, this will have a negative effect on worldwide vaccination rates throughout 2021.

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Tranquility Base

[clo]

15 minutes ago, PaulMCO said:

Just a raised voice 🙂

Me too 🙂 

[ToxM]

Here in the UK we currently have a plethora of lines offering cruises to nowhere during the summer.

 

Virgin Voyages

MSC

Cunard

Viking

Saga

Fred Olsen

P&O

Princess

Celebrity

Disney

Marella

 

I wonder if the CDC will be looking to see what happens with our cruises. The above lines are only opening these trips to UK residents and I think most are only open to fully vaccinated residents. 
 

It is certainly going to be interesting to see what happens with them.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, ToxM said:

Here in the UK we currently have a plethora of lines offering cruises to nowhere during the summer.

 

Virgin Voyages

MSC

Cunard

Viking

Saga

Fred Olsen

P&O

Princess

Celebrity

Disney

Marella

 

I wonder if the CDC will be looking to see what happens with our cruises. The above lines are only opening these trips to UK residents and I think most are only open to fully vaccinated residents. 
 

It is certainly going to be interesting to see what happens with them.

Since cruises to nowhere are not legal in the US the UK cruises will not present the ful range of issues that have to be evaluated and dealt with here on US-based cruises . The various offshore homeport cruises run by the US-based cruise lines that are planned for this summer will provide a more complete picture of the full range of what has to be addressed.

Edited April 11, 2021 by njhorseman

[ToxM]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Since cruises to nowhere are not legal in the US the UK cruises will not present the ful range of issues that have to be evaluated and dealt with here on US-based cruises . The various offshore homeport cruises run by the US-based cruise lines that are planned for this summer will provide a more complete picture of the full range of what has to be addressed.

Ahh yes, the Jones bill or something?

 

 

[Daniel A]

19 hours ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

It is the silliest thing thus far, having to fly to a Caribbean island for a seven day cruise in the Caribbean. Instead of sailing out of Florida, we are being forced by the CDC to fly out of the US to sail in the Caribbean. 

Government often accomplishes the exact opposite of what they set out to do in the first place.  The government is funneling all the North American cruise passengers through airports now.  The very same airports where the government permits mingling of departing and arriving PAX using the same gangways and terminals.  Is this any safer than permitting all vaccinated cruises that PAX can drive to?  😵

[RJB]

16 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Please quit screaming at @Jancruzwith your huge Cap letters. It ruins everyones day on a continuous basis.

+1   Jan is trying to give us the best info. she has.   Very good info. I believe. 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, ToxM said:

Ahh yes, the Jones bill or something?

 

 

The Jones Act governs the shipment of merchandise. It's the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) that governs passenger transportation, but even that isn't the problem. The PVSA actually permits cruises to nowhere. The problem arises from the crew not having the proper work visa for cruises to nowhere. Our Department of Homeland Security considers a cruise to nowhere as never having left the US even though it normally enters international waters and the type of visa held by most crew members only permits incidental work presence in the US, such as would happen on a port day.

[ToxM]

25 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

The Jones Act governs the shipment of merchandise. It's the Passenger Vessel Services Act (PVSA) that governs passenger transportation, but even that isn't the problem. The PVSA actually permits cruises to nowhere. The problem arises from the crew not having the proper work visa for cruises to nowhere. Our Department of Homeland Security considers a cruise to nowhere as never having left the US even though it normally enters international waters and the type of visa held by most crew members only permits incidental work presence in the US, such as would happen on a port day.

Definitely a crippling scenario.

 

I wonder how the UK cruises to nowhere are getting around this if the gov views it in the same way, as it has been stated that casino and duty free operations will not be open as the cruises will still be in UK waters. 
 

Maybe the success of the UK ones will help the changing of the law for you guys. The  agility of any government would make this unlikely I suspect.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, ToxM said:

Definitely a crippling scenario.

 

I wonder how the UK cruises to nowhere are getting around this if the gov views it in the same way, as it has been stated that casino and duty free operations will not be open as the cruises will still be in UK waters. 
 

Maybe the success of the UK ones will help the changing of the law for you guys. The  agility of any government would make this unlikely I suspect.

I have no idea of  what UK laws and regulations say, but in any event I'm sure the cruise lines would not have made these plans without making sure there were no legal obstacles.

 

Given the US government's stance on cruising right now I don't think there's the slightest chance they would turn a blind eye, even temporarily, to the visa issue.

Edited April 11, 2021 by njhorseman