Carnival CEO Says No Vaccination Requirement

[AncientWanderer]

Out of curiosity, I just poked around on the Carnival Cruises forum to see what the discussion is like there among "the young pups."  Interestingly, the consensus there seems to be the same as what's emerging here on the HAL forum...people don't want to be stuck floating around on an infected ship, and most see a fully vaccinated one as the best way to prevent that from happening.  Princess seems the same.

 

Have a look around.  I don't want to argue about whether or not I'm mischaracterizing anything, so that will be my only comment on that score.  

 

 

[Mary229]

24 minutes ago, AncientWanderer said:

Out of curiosity, I just poked around on the Carnival Cruises forum to see what the discussion is like there among "the young pups."  Interestingly, the consensus there seems to be the same as what's emerging here on the HAL forum...people don't want to be stuck floating around on an infected ship, and most see a fully vaccinated one as the best way to prevent that from happening.  Princess seems the same.

 

Have a look around.  I don't want to argue about whether or not I'm mischaracterizing anything, so that will be my only comment on that score.  

 

 

I think the lack of clarity on protocols has much to do with that consensus.   Who we are not hearing from are the young families with children.   There is no vaccine for children and I assure you after this hellish year stuck at home with your kids 24/7 they want to cruise.  That said Americans have an outstanding track record for having their children vaccinated, 95% for school age children, so I know when there is a vaccine they will vaccinate.  If you are interested in those studies the stats are published on the CDC website.   I don’t want to give too many numbers as some are offended by statistics 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Mary229

[Laminator]

4 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I think the lack of clarity on protocols has much to do with that consensus.   Who we are not hearing from are the young families with children.   There is no vaccine for children and I assure you after this hellish year stuck at home with your kids 24/7 they want to cruise.  That said Americans have an outstanding track record for having their children vaccinated, 95% for school age children, so I know when there is a vaccine they will vaccinate.  If you are interested in those studies the stats are published on the CDC website.   I don’t want to give too many number as some are offended by statistics 

Not me...As you know I love stats!

[MandyPuppy]

Not cruising unless there are vaccine requirements.  Anyone  on a ship without that is asking for a prolonged trip hanging off some coast, quarantined, because some other passenger tests positive.

[Lexgav]

So glad to hear some sense from the brass at Carnival. We are scheduled for Dec, fingers crossed!  Forcing individuals to get a vaccine while there is so much up in the air, is ridiculous and pointless. He brings up great points, that not everyone has access, or is able to get this vaccine, not to mention we live in a free country, you might as well be asking for religious and political views, it’s just as private! I get it, we’re in a mess, but forcing cruisers to get a vaccine is not a fix all answer. If I have to get a vaccine to cruise, I will because we really enjoy cruising, but I won’t like it and likely won’t get it again if not required. So glad to hear he’s standing up for all of us!

[Florida_gal_50]

15 minutes ago, Lexgav said:

So glad to hear some sense from the brass at Carnival. We are scheduled for Dec, fingers crossed!  Forcing individuals to get a vaccine while there is so much up in the air, is ridiculous and pointless. He brings up great points, that not everyone has access, or is able to get this vaccine, not to mention we live in a free country, you might as well be asking for religious and political views, it’s just as private! I get it, we’re in a mess, but forcing cruisers to get a vaccine is not a fix all answer. If I have to get a vaccine to cruise, I will because we really enjoy cruising, but I won’t like it and likely won’t get it again if not required. So glad to hear he’s standing up for all of us!

No one is “forcing” anyone.  You may have to get used to the fact that your travel (and maybe other) choices will be very limited without being vaccinated.  Time will tell.

[OmarOak]

Reading through this entire thread leads me to believe businesses will have to make a binary choice to either:

 

1. serve potential customers who are pro-vaccine

or

 

2. serve potential customers who are anti-vaccine 

 

My businesses are pro-vaccine and I am choosing group 1; I hope HAL does likewise.

[Folsomdoc]

This decision, if it stands, will turn Carnival into an experiment in self selection-the anti-vaxers or those who just don’t care will book with them but most of us in our senior years, even vaccinated will not. The likelihood of an outbreak on board will therefore rise. I will not cruise with any line that does not mandate vaccination. As for children, well I feel badly but until there are shots approved for them, they should not be allowed on board. Harsh, I know. 

[vaderladyl21]

No vaccine is 100% effective and nobody should be force to have one. If you are vaccinated, why do you worry so much about others? If you blindly believe it is going to save you, why are you so afraid?

[Florida_gal_50]

1 minute ago, vaderladyl21 said:

No vaccine is 100% effective and nobody should be force to have one. If you are vaccinated, why do you worry so much about others? If you blindly believe it is going to save you, why are you so afraid?

It’s been said several times in this thread it’s about the disruption of the cruise and the possibility of not being able to dock. Did you see what happened in March of 2020?   I’m still in the workforce so being at sea for a month is not an option.

[vaderladyl21]

4 hours ago, kazu said:

 

Just because you have travelled internationally (as have we) doesn’t mean you have visited places that require the Yellow Fever Vaccine.  That’s kind of a meaningless statement unless you have been to a place where it is required to enter.  It’s not required everywhere.  

Obviously you have never been to any of these countries that require PROOF of Yellow Fever Vaccination.

 

Angola, Benin, Burkina Faso, Burundi, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Republic of the Congo, Côte d’Ivoire, Democratic Republic of Congo, French Guiana, Gabon, Ghana, Guinea-Bissau, Liberia, Mali, Niger, Rwanda, São Tomé and Príncipe, Sierra Leone, Togo

 

It is also recommended for some rural, jungle spots in South America.  We’ve been to South America and did not get it nor need it to board as we weren’t visiting those spots.

Trust me, if you are going to the places I listed and you do not have the proof, you will be denied boarding on a cruise ship and entry into the country.

 

I suspect many countries will require proof when they open their borders.  Time will tell.

 

 

We are talking  about vaccines that had been around for decades not about a new h just come out. Not the same.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, vaderladyl21 said:

We are talking  about vaccines that had been around for decades not about a new h just come out. Not the same.

 

The vaccine has been tested and in fact was under works for this potential type of a corona virus long before covid came out.

Every vaccine is new at some time whether it be polio, yellow fever, flu, whatever.  When polio came out everyone flocked to get it.  I was vaccinated young at that age.  Beats an iron young.

 

Best to get with the programme and understand the risks and the wonders of science.  

 

It is exactly the same as when all the others were introduced and then, people welcomed the science.  Those that didn’t were left out including entrance to schools for their children.  History is a good read and so is science.  Too bad we weren’t as smart as our parents endorsing the blessings our scientists have given us.

I worked as a Rotarian to rid the world of polio.  Some places resisted as they still didn’t trust the vaccine.  and it had been around a long time.  Our goal was to eradicate it from the world and end the suffering.

I think as a society we should all take on the same goal with covid and do our part to eradicate this from the world and if that means a vaccine as it did with polio, then let’s each do our part. That’s my attitude and my belief.  Anyone who doesn’t want to help is hindering.  I am thankful to finally have an appointment for my vaccine on Saturday.  So, I do put my money where my mouth is.

[sfocruiser]

1 hour ago, vaderladyl21 said:

We are talking  about vaccines that had been around for decades not about a new h just come out. Not the same.

 

Sorry it's exactly the same.   If you want to board a ship traveling to these countries then the cruise line will require a vaccine.   Its your choice to vaccinate and travel or not cruise to these countries.   Its has nothing to do with the "age" of the vaccine it has everything to do with unacceptable risk either to you or to the countries you desire to visit

[iceman93]

I'm disappointed but not surprised to see a faction here labeling, with a ridiculously broad brush, those who do not agree 100% with them as "anti-vaxxers".  There are a myriad of reasons why a particular individual may not want to get vaccinated, and the fringe "Bill Gates wants to implant a microchip in me" view is a very tiny percentage of them.  Just speaking for myself, I'm not anti-vax at all and am in the process of getting all my family members who are eligible vaccinated.

 

The debate in this thread is whether or not HAL should mandate 100% vaccination for their passengers (amazingly, those most in favor of this mandate don't seem to care so much about the crew, but I digress).  A majority of posters here have made it quite clear they are only interested in cruising in the future if the 100% vaccinated mandate is in place.  And I understand their point of view, especially those whose biggest fear is a ship being stuck at sea due to an outbreak of COVID-19.

 

My point of view is that the problem with that scenario, though, isn't that some passengers may not be vaccinated and could catch COVID-19.  It's that the powers in charge of the ports would still be so afraid of this virus that they refuse to let a ship dock that has infected passengers.  Maybe we should focus on them, and getting them to realize that overreacting to the threat of a virus with a >99% survival rate (even pre-vaccine) is silly.

 

How would we all feel about cruising if ports could turn away ships that have any cases of norovirus onboard?  Yes, I know that noro is not the 'rona.  But a quick look at wikipedia reveals that 200,000 people die of norovirus every year.  So I ask again, what if there was a chance that after boarding a cruise, if there was a noro outbreak on board, you'd be stuck at sea with no ports willing to accept the ship?  Would you demand extreme measures before you would board any ship just to avoid that possibility?  Or would you say that the ports who would behave in such an extreme manner are clearly overreacting?

[OmarOak]

1 hour ago, iceman93 said:

I'm disappointed but not surprised to see a faction here labeling, with a ridiculously broad brush, those who do not agree 100% with them as "anti-vaxxers".  There are a myriad of reasons why a particular individual may not want to get vaccinated, and the fringe "Bill Gates wants to implant a microchip in me" view is a very tiny percentage of them.  Just speaking for myself, I'm not anti-vax at all and am in the process of getting all my family members who are eligible vaccinated.

 

The debate in this thread is whether or not HAL should mandate 100% vaccination for their passengers (amazingly, those most in favor of this mandate don't seem to care so much about the crew, but I digress).  A majority of posters here have made it quite clear they are only interested in cruising in the future if the 100% vaccinated mandate is in place.  And I understand their point of view, especially those whose biggest fear is a ship being stuck at sea due to an outbreak of COVID-19.

 

My point of view is that the problem with that scenario, though, isn't that some passengers may not be vaccinated and could catch COVID-19.  It's that the powers in charge of the ports would still be so afraid of this virus that they refuse to let a ship dock that has infected passengers.  Maybe we should focus on them, and getting them to realize that overreacting to the threat of a virus with a >99% survival rate (even pre-vaccine) is silly.

 

How would we all feel about cruising if ports could turn away ships that have any cases of norovirus onboard?  Yes, I know that noro is not the 'rona.  But a quick look at wikipedia reveals that 200,000 people die of norovirus every year.  So I ask again, what if there was a chance that after boarding a cruise, if there was a noro outbreak on board, you'd be stuck at sea with no ports willing to accept the ship?  Would you demand extreme measures before you would board any ship just to avoid that possibility?  Or would you say that the ports who would behave in such an extreme manner are clearly overreacting?

Your definition of "silly" is my definition of common sense. Everyone, Passengers and Crew should be vaccinated.

 

My definition of "silly" is trying to equate Covid 19 and a norovirus.

 

Perhaps you don't know any "long haulers" but death is not the only relevant statistic when considering the long term risks of Covid-19.

 

 

[HappyInVan]

16 hours ago, jeynon said:

If in fact the vaccine is effective and masks prevent the spread of the virus, then a reasonable person should no longer be living in a state of fear and apprehension!

 

Speaking for myself, I don't live in 'a state of fear and apprehension'.

 

Back in November, I was convinced that there would be a big 2^nd Wave. Stockpiled for a shelter-in-place order. That was a pragmatic thing to do, not out of fear. I intended to fully comply with the safety guidelines. There was no fear because there was no uncertainty.

 

Today, there's a lot of fear and uncertainty because of the anti-vax climate. Listen to the scientists. The vaccines work; some better than others. But, any EUA vaccine is better than none when you meet the big bad wolf.

 

BTW, our CC members have already made it clear. They want a 100% vax cruise because of the risk that un-vax pax can cause the cruise to be disrupted. Possibly, even quarantine for the ship. 👎

 

Back on topic. CCL's shareholders would be better off if the company gives the highest priority to the safety of its pax. Customer satisfaction = long term $$$ for the company. Win-Win.

 

My advise to CCL is to be pragmatic. Start with vaccinated trial cruises in the USA. Win the confidence of the CDC and the public. Scale up when possible.

 

Look at the big picture. Israel has had a remarkable rate of vax. The number of their covid cases has stayed low for many weeks. In part, that's because of their use of the digital 'passport'. Only vaccinated people should be allowed to mix in 'normal' social situations.

 

IMO, CCL has a part to play in returning the world to 'normal'.

[kazu]

8 hours ago, iceman93 said:

How would we all feel about cruising if ports could turn away ships that have any cases of norovirus onboard?  Yes, I know that noro is not the 'rona.  But a quick look at wikipedia reveals that 200,000 people die of norovirus every year.  So I ask again, what if there was a chance that after boarding a cruise, if there was a noro outbreak on board, you'd be stuck at sea with no ports willing to accept the ship? 

‘

I do not equate Noro with Covid but fyi...

 

Ships can be turned away if here is a severe case of norovirus.  I know, I was on one.  We were to be in Bermuda for 2 days and Bermuda refused entry to the Riviera due to the cases on board.  So, that scenario is not a “what if” scenario.  It already exists.

[SumoCitrus]

I understand the concern about being stuck on a ship but I don't believe that is likely to happen like it did last year. In 2020 we were dealing with an unknown and keeping people on cruise ships until they could figure it out seemed like the best option. Certain countries who were not yet affected did not want to introduce the virus into their country because they allowed a ship to dock. Things are different now, wouldn't you say? Hospitals are not overwhelmed, treatment is well understood, many people are vaccinated, and every country is affected. I think it's probably incorrect to assume a few COVID cases onboard a ship would result in a 2-week (or longer) sequester. Nonetheless, I understand the concern.

 

I am curious about the repeated mentions of countries requiring vaccines to enter. This is often said to me in response to my opinion about COVID vaccines and cruising. Are there any countries currently that are requiring a full vaccination course for entry? I genuinely do not know. If there are, could you please list them? If a country is not currently requiring a full-COVID vaccine course for entry, what makes you think they will do so later this year or next year?

 

[SumoCitrus]

9 hours ago, iceman93 said:

I'm disappointed but not surprised to see a faction here labeling, with a ridiculously broad brush, those who do not agree 100% with them as "anti-vaxxers".

 

I believe the people who do this are overly susceptible to media narratives. I have all of my usual vaccines up to date and have no opposition to established, approved vaccines for diseases of concern. I do have reservations about an EUA-only vaccine, using new technology, for a disease that is not likely to kill me. Thankfully, whether or not someone sticks something in their body is currently a personal choice and I exercise that choice as I see fit. It is not "anti-vaxx" to want to preserve that autonomy.

 

 

[cruisemom42]

17 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

I understand the concern about being stuck on a ship but I don't believe that is likely to happen like it did last year. In 2020 we were dealing with an unknown and keeping people on cruise ships until they could figure it out seemed like the best option. Certain countries who were not yet affected did not want to introduce the virus into their country because they allowed a ship to dock. Things are different now, wouldn't you say? Hospitals are not overwhelmed, treatment is well understood, many people are vaccinated, and every country is affected. I think it's probably incorrect to assume a few COVID cases onboard a ship would result in a 2-week (or longer) sequester. Nonetheless, I understand the concern.

 

 

 

This was posted just a couple of days ago in the Greece ports of call forum as part of the correspondence between someone with an upcoming cruise and a tour guide there.

 

Athens--looks like they will be SUPERBUSY this summer! - Greece Ports - Cruise Critic Community

 

The tour guide specifically says:  "to be honest none knows exactly when and how tourism will be this year. The government is talking about opening tourism on May 15th. Our covid Hospitals and intensive care centers are full with patients waiting in line and a total lockdown with restrictions which allows moving no further than 2 km from your house. I hope that this nightmare will be over soon and everything will get back to normal by next year."

 

This is in Greece where a number of ships are talking about starting up in the Med, leaving from Athens and visiting several other Greek ports. I wouldn't exactly say that it sounds like their hospitals are not overwhelmed. What will happen when several ships are doing regular rounds in Greece, should one or more of them turn up with a significant number of COVID cases on board?

 

I believe most (if not all) of the cruise lines planning to cruise there this summer are requiring COVID vaccination.

[Daniel A]

9 hours ago, iceman93 said:

The debate in this thread is whether or not HAL should mandate 100% vaccination for their passengers (amazingly, those most in favor of this mandate don't seem to care so much about the crew, but I digress).  A majority of posters here have made it quite clear they are only interested in cruising in the future if the 100% vaccinated mandate is in place.

I cannot speak for others, but I want to make a couple of things very clear.  I will not sail on any cruise which is not 100% vaccinated.  To me, 100% means everybody on board, not just the passengers.  For the sake of brevity, I do not usually include my belief that the vaccination requirement should only be in place while Covid-19 continues to be a major public health threat.

 

Having a ship sailing without any ports willing to grant docking permission is a secondary (albeit important) consideration for me.  My major concern is that those people who want to 'take their chances' and board a cruise ship without taking any and all precautions may cause significant outbreaks during the restart of cruising.  That would be the death knell of the cruise industry.  In that case, we won't be sailing into any ports - ever.

 

I don't begrudge anyone who does not want to get the vaccine, that's a personal decision they have a right to decide.  That said, getting on a cruise ship is neither a right nor is it a necessity of life.  I do not believe vaccine status should affect a persons ability to participate in the activities of daily living, but again, getting on a cruise ship isn't one of them.  All I am asking is that those who do not want to take the vaccine practice some patience and wait until the crises is over before embarking on any cruise ships.  Let the vaccinated take the lead in establishing that cruising can be safe.  I don't think that's an unreasonable position at all.