Right on Cue, CDC Advises Against Travel To The Bahamas

[At Sea At Peace]

6 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

 

I have read your past posts. The majority appear to bash/question the cruise industry and relate to spreading illness, mask wearing and COVID-19. I am curious, do you like to cruise? 

 

👍

[HBCcruiser]

Interesting data: 🤔

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ 

[harkinmr]

15 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

 

I have read your past posts. The majority appear to bash/question the cruise industry and relate to spreading illness, mask wearing and COVID-19. I am curious, do you like to cruise? 

Not that it's any of your business, but I have been cruising since 1997.  I cruise two or three times a year on various lines.

 

I have read the posts of a lot of other posters on this board, including yours, and there's a tremendous amount of "bashing" and "questioning" of COVID-19 and health protocols.  Also a lot of bashing, questioning, and negativity about the CDC and health experts.  What's your point?  There's not much else going on these days on these boards, right?  Have a right to my opinion.  Or is that just you?  You are the one who in just the last day or so was spouting about your freedom and liberty and constitutional rights.  Right back at you!

 

I love cruising, but I am also a realist and not an echo chamber or a patsy for the cruise lines.  Lots of people are speaking truth about the cruise lines, not just me.   

 

Any other questions?

[HBCcruiser]

4 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Not that it's any of your business, but I have been cruising since 1997.  I cruise two or three times a year on various lines.

 

I have read the posts of a lot of other posters on this board, including yours, and there's a tremendous amount of "bashing" and "questioning" of COVID-19 and health protocols.  Also a lot of bashing, questioning, and negativity about the CDC and health experts.  What's your point?  There's not much else going on these days on these boards, right?  Have a right to my opinion.  Or is that just you?  You are the one who in just the last day or so was spouting about your freedom and liberty and constitutional rights.  Right back at you!

 

I love cruising, but I am also a realist and not an echo chamber or a patsy for the cruise lines.  Lots of people are speaking truth about the cruise lines, not just me.   

 

Any other questions?

Wow. I just asked if you like to cruise. God bless you and have a nice day. 

[harkinmr]

Just now, HBCcruiser said:

Wow. I just asked if you like to cruise. God bless you and have a nice day. 

Nah.  You were attempting to be snarky about my posting history, otherwise you would have just asked that simple question.  You have a nice day too.

[PTC DAWG]

3 hours ago, Northern wanderlust said:

 

Well, to be fair, the total population of the Bahamas is approximately 390,000 so about 1% of the population is currently positive.  I don't know what the Healthcare situation in the Bahamas is but the concern could be more about us giving it to them than about them giving it to us.

You’re not so good at math. 

[oteixeira]

59 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

The cruise industry is not entirely blameless in all of this, and folks need to stop thinking that they are.  It was their mistakes at the very beginning of this, and their continuing mistakes with crew infections thereafter, that has caused a good deal of hesitancy on the part of the CDC.  It was all laid out by the former CDC Director in the CSO.  The cruise lines blatantly moved their ships out of US waters last Summer to avoid the COVID reporting requirements.  That to me does not spell confidence in their approach.  They have been known to skirt rules and regulations before; a perfect example is Carnival's on-going environmental issues.

 

The cruise lines have known what was on the horizon with the CSO since last October.  It's just now that they claim it costs too much money and time or it's unworkable.  They just want the CSO and any CDC oversight gone.  Period.  Now that they realize that that plan is not going to work, they have come back to the table.  The CSO is going to remain but will likely be modified to some extent.  

Thank you for your thoughts.  I would like to share my own based on what you said here.

1.  The cruise industry was not blameless, but let's be clear, they were trying to get people off their ships and were denied at every port they went to.  Also, no government knew what to do at the beginning either, as this was new to everyone.  Were mistakes made?  YES.  Where the cruise lines the only people that messed up??  NO.  Please remember this, it seems you are blaming the cruise lines for every case, but if people could have disembarked these ships in a timely fashion I would argue that we could have had better outcomes.  Who do I blame for this?  No one really....Sadly we did not know how the virus worked or what to do.  Even Dr. Fauci has said things that he had to change on because we as humans learn and adapt (and I have no problem with this).
 

2.  The reason the cruise lines left US waters was not about reporting viruses, it was all about the almighty dollar.  US ports are by far more expensive to be in than other countries (NCL in particular spoke about this a few times last year if I remember correctly), so they were saving money by moving out.  Pure and simple.  

[DCGuy64]

Two of the most widely reported "outbreaks" were the Diamond Princess and the Ruby Princess.

In the case of the Diamond, it was the decision of the Japanese Ministry of Health not to allow passengers to disembark, and for good reason, because they didn't want potentially infected passengers in one of the most densely packed cities on earth. But it wasn't the decision of the captain, Princess, or Carnival, the parent company.

In the case of Ruby, it was the health officials in the Australian state of NSW that messed up, and the cruise line was ultimately cleared of wrongdoing after suing.

IOW in both cases, the cruise lines weren't at fault. Yet for months on end, the press banged on about the irresponsible cruise lines being "virus petri dishes," as though they intended it that way. And the public takes it as fact.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-14/ruby-princess-coronavirus-inquiry-findings-handed-down/12557714

If anything, it shows that governments screw things up, even when they're trying to do the right thing. But please, let's put the blame where it belongs, not use the cruise industry as a Covid whipping boy.

[HBCcruiser]

Total Population in the Bahamas = 396,304

Total number of deaths due to C19 = 194

Total number of deaths last week = 1

Total number of C19 cases last week = 55

Total number C19 cases overall = 9,791

 

Sauce:

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/bahamas-population/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/bahamas/

[harkinmr]

11 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

Thank you for your thoughts.  I would like to share my own based on what you said here.

1.  The cruise industry was not blameless, but let's be clear, they were trying to get people off their ships and were denied at every port they went to.  Also, no government knew what to do at the beginning either, as this was new to everyone.  Were mistakes made?  YES.  Where the cruise lines the only people that messed up??  NO.  Please remember this, it seems you are blaming the cruise lines for every case, but if people could have disembarked these ships in a timely fashion I would argue that we could have had better outcomes.  Who do I blame for this?  No one really....Sadly we did not know how the virus worked or what to do.  Even Dr. Fauci has said things that he had to change on because we as humans learn and adapt (and I have no problem with this).
 

2.  The reason the cruise lines left US waters was not about reporting viruses, it was all about the almighty dollar.  US ports are by far more expensive to be in than other countries (NCL in particular spoke about this a few times last year if I remember correctly), so they were saving money by moving out.  Pure and simple.  

I am not blaming the cruise lines for every case.  Not by any stretch.  I am well aware what they were up against.  But I also know that they set out on passenger cruises well after this disease became a pandemic and that's on them.  If the Ruby Princess fiasco in Australia is any example, they would have dumped people off and washed their hands of the situation in a number of other areas as well.

 

They were not "just saving money" by moving out of US waters.  They were obligated to regularly report COVID cases to the CDC.  They also wanted to repatriate their crews through commercial transport and balked at the requirement that they arrange for charter transportation to home countries.  They delayed on that making circumstances on board for crew much more difficult than they had to be.  

Edited April 20, 2021 by harkinmr

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

Total Population in the Bahamas = 396,304

Total number of deaths due to C19 = 194

Total number of deaths last week = 1

Total number of C19 cases last week = 55

Total number C19 cases overall = 9,791

 

Sauce:

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/bahamas-population/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/bahamas/

Yessiree, them's some frightening statistics, I can see why the CDC thinks nobody should go there. Wow.... *face palm*

[oteixeira]

2 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

I am not blaming the cruise lines for every case.  Not by any stretch.  I am well aware what they were up against.  But I also know that they set out on passenger cruises well after this disease became a pandemic and that's on them.  If the Ruby Princess fiasco in Australia is any example, they would have dumped people off and washed their hands of the situation in a number of other areas as well.

 

They were not "just saving money" by moving out of US waters.  They were obligated to regular report COVID cases to the CDC.  They also wanted to repatriate their crews through commercial transport and balked at the requirement that they arrange for charter transportation to home countries.  They delayed on that making circumstances on board for crew much more difficult than they had to be.  

 

So sailing after a pandemic was declared was "on them".  Based on that argument, are you also blaming airlines for making the USA much worse since they continued to fly people into NYC, Florida, and California many many days/weeks after the pandemic was declared?  We have far more cases because of their incompetence than we do because of cruise lines.  

As for private charters, it was much more complicated than that.  There were multiple times I read stories from crew members themselves or from the lines that they had everything arranged including the private charter only to be denied the ability to get off the ship or even come in to port.  That blame goes both ways.  Again, there was a lot of panic and shutdown because of not knowing what the virus could do.  I don't want to blame just one side, I want to say everyone had a part to play.  Because of this, we can easily sit here all day and go back and forth with facts that support both of our sides of the argument.

Thanks for the discussion, I hope you have a great day.

[harkinmr]

4 minutes ago, oteixeira said:

 

So sailing after a pandemic was declared was "on them".  Based on that argument, are you also blaming airlines for making the USA much worse since they continued to fly people into NYC, Florida, and California many many days/weeks after the pandemic was declared?  We have far more cases because of their incompetence than we do because of cruise lines.  

As for private charters, it was much more complicated than that.  There were multiple times I read stories from crew members themselves or from the lines that they had everything arranged including the private charter only to be denied the ability to get off the ship or even come in to port.  That blame goes both ways.  Again, there was a lot of panic and shutdown because of not knowing what the virus could do.  I don't want to blame just one side, I want to say everyone had a part to play.  Because of this, we can easily sit here all day and go back and forth with facts that support both of our sides of the argument.

Thanks for the discussion, I hope you have a great day.

Not what I was saying at all.  The Diamond Princess and Grand Princess episodes occurred right after the pandemic was declared in late January/early February.  Cruise lines continued to leave on cruises from the US into mid-March, with full knowledge of those two situations and the risks.  That IS on them.  They are not completely blameless in what occurred simply because it was a new and different situation.

 

I don't blame just one side either, which is why I posted what I did.  It seems that lots of folks hold the cruise lines as victims and the CDC as the enemy in all of this and neither is entirely the case.  I support the CDC's mandate which is to protect public health.  Unfortunately, that has impacted businesses and individuals, but their actions do not make them the enemy.  That is my opinion.  I know that others disagree.

 

You have a great day too.

[roger001]

We still have a long way to go before it's going to happen.  I think even some now scheduled will still be cancelled.  From CNN today......    And then you can of course say, what do they know.  

 

More than 5.2 million new cases were recorded last week -- the most in a single week since the pandemic began -- WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said during a news briefing in Geneva on Monday.

Deaths also increased for the fifth straight week, he said, with the pandemic now officially claiming more than 3 million lives.

 

[oteixeira]

Just now, roger001 said:

We still have a long way to go before it's going to happen.  I think even some now scheduled will still be cancelled.  From CNN today......    And then you can of course say, what do they know.  

 

More than 5.2 million new cases were recorded last week -- the most in a single week since the pandemic began -- WHO Director-General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said during a news briefing in Geneva on Monday.

Deaths also increased for the fifth straight week, he said, with the pandemic now officially claiming more than 3 million lives.

 

I wouldn't say what do they know, but I would ask where are the increased cases and deaths concentrated?  Do they affect where we are trying to open and do business?  More so deaths and hospitalizations to be honest.  We need to come to grips with the fact that people will get Covid19, the proof of working vaccines is all in the deaths and severe cases (I know that sounds morbid but it is the truth).

[electro]

17 minutes ago, harkinmr said:

Not what I was saying at all.  The Diamond Princess and Grand Princess episodes occurred right after the pandemic was declared in late January/early February.  Cruise lines continued to leave on cruises from the US into mid-March, with full knowledge of those two situations and the risks.  That IS on them.  They are not completely blameless in what occurred simply because it was a new and different situation.

 

I don't blame just one side either, which is why I posted what I did.  It seems that lots of folks hold the cruise lines as victims and the CDC as the enemy in all of this and neither is entirely the case.  I support the CDC's mandate which is to protect public health.  Unfortunately, that has impacted businesses and individuals, but their actions do not make them the enemy.  That is my opinion.  I know that others disagree.

 

You have a great day too.

Covid was declared a pandemic by the WHO on March 11, 2020.

[HBCcruiser]

WORLD DATA C19:

 

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Edited April 20, 2021 by HBCcruiser

[hamrag]

5 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I'll have to read the CDC's full guidance on this, but since my wife and I are vaccinated AND had Covid 4 months ago, I wouldn't have any worry about traveling to the Bahamas or anywhere. The risk of reinfection is far too small for us to worry. Those who are unvaccinated or are at risk for getting Covid might choose to do things differently.

But, would travel insurance be valid during a no travel advisory? Certainly in the UK it absolutely wouldn't.

[logan25]

4 hours ago, Northern wanderlust said:

 

Well, to be fair, the total population of the Bahamas is approximately 390,000 so about 1% of the population is currently positive. 

Actually, based on the stated 387 active cases and population of 390,000, that works out to one-tenth of 1%, not 1%.

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, hamrag said:

But, would travel insurance be valid during a no travel advisory? Certainly in the UK it absolutely wouldn't.

In the US there are now a handful of insurance carriers offering  corona virus pandemic related claims. Initially they were not and generally insurance does not cover WHO-declared pandemics.  

[harkinmr]

7 minutes ago, electro said:

Covid was declared a pandemic by the WHO on March 11, 2020.

Thank you for the correction.  There was an epidemic up to that point.  Either way, it doesn't change the circumstances.

[hamrag]

1 hour ago, HBCcruiser said:

Sauce:

https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/bahamas-population/

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/bahamas/

 

Why are you recommending sauce?

[HBCcruiser]

6 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

In the US there are now a handful of insurance carriers offering  corona virus pandemic related claims. Initially they were not and generally insurance does not cover WHO-declared pandemics.  

Interesting that RCI will be covering the costs for C19 related issues for those of us who have booked a summer cruise. This shows me they are confident in their C19 protocols. 

 

Book by May 31, 2021 and your cruise fare includes the following at no extra cost.
 

COVID-19 Protections

• 100% refund for you and your immediate travel party if any of you tests positive within 14 days prior to the cruise, or at the boarding terminal

• 100% refund for you, your travel party, and any confirmed close contacts if any of you tests positive during your cruise

• In the event of COVID-19-related expenses, Royal Caribbean will cover onboard medical treatment, cost of any required land-based quarantine, and travel home for you, your travel party, and any confirmed close contacts

 

Source: https://www.royalcaribbean.com/the-healthy-sail-center

[HBCcruiser]

2 minutes ago, hamrag said:

 

Why are you recommending sauce?

Haha - Sauce = source. 

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

Interesting that RCI will be covering the costs for C19 related issues for those of us who have booked a summer cruise. This shows me they are confident in their C19 protocols. 

 

Book by May 31, 2021 and your cruise fare includes the following at no extra cost.
 

COVID-19 Protections

• 100% refund for you and your immediate travel party if any of you tests positive within 14 days prior to the cruise, or at the boarding terminal

• 100% refund for you, your travel party, and any confirmed close contacts if any of you tests positive during your cruise

• In the event of COVID-19-related expenses, Royal Caribbean will cover onboard medical treatment, cost of any required land-based quarantine, and travel home for you, your travel party, and any confirmed close contacts

 

Source: https://www.royalcaribbean.com/the-healthy-sail-center

Plus it shows they are forking over serious dollars for insurance.   Thanks for the information.  I just wish their ships were smaller.