Cruising Without a Vaccination

[slidergirl]

44 minutes ago, nascarcruiser said:

So my sister and her husband both work in the health care industry.   They both had Covid19 twice. They both say there are too many of my questions that can't be answered, therefore they don't feel comfortable tell my parents or us to get the vaccine.  The chance of dying from Covid19 is 1%.  We flew to Cozumel in January with our doctor saying as long as we took the normal precautions we were fine to travel. We both have autoimmune issues.  The doctor said they were comfortable with us using our own discretion about if we wanted the vaccine or not.  At this point there is not enough evidence of long term effects or how often it needs to be given (like the flu shot once a year)for us to get a vaccine that has only been approved for emergency use.   I'm not saying we won't get it at some point but for now we are opting out.  When we were in Cozumel in January,  we felt more comfortable with the protocols they had in place than the ones in the US.  And before any one says we are antivaxxers,  you couldn't be further from the truth.  

I will point out that people who didn't die from COVID are at times FAR from being back to normal.  They can spend months in the hospital, weeks to months on ventilators, ECMOs etc.  There have been some who had to have limbs amputated or organs removed and get transplants.  There have been some who end up months in rehabilitation centers.  Those of lucky enough to have mild cases still run the risk of severe long COVID complications.  To beat that dead horse, I'm 15 months in and I still have issues that prevent me from doing things that were 2nd nature for me.  

 

I just get a tad riled up when people only point out that 1% of death.  

[Charles4515]

48 minutes ago, nascarcruiser said:

So my sister and her husband both work in the health care industry.   They both had Covid19 twice. They both say there are too many of my questions that can't be answered, therefore they don't feel comfortable tell my parents or us to get the vaccine.  The chance of dying from Covid19 is 1%.  We flew to Cozumel in January with our doctor saying as long as we took the normal precautions we were fine to travel. We both have autoimmune issues.  The doctor said they were comfortable with us using our own discretion about if we wanted the vaccine or not.  At this point there is not enough evidence of long term effects or how often it needs to be given (like the flu shot once a year)for us to get a vaccine that has only been approved for emergency use.   I'm not saying we won't get it at some point but for now we are opting out.  When we were in Cozumel in January,  we felt more comfortable with the protocols they had in place than the ones in the US.  And before any one says we are antivaxxers,  you couldn't be further from the truth.  

 

Whatever you call yourself you have opted out of cruises.

[lenquixote66]

2 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

I will point out that people who didn't die from COVID are at times FAR from being back to normal.  They can spend months in the hospital, weeks to months on ventilators, ECMOs etc.  There have been some who had to have limbs amputated or organs removed and get transplants.  There have been some who end up months in rehabilitation centers.  Those of lucky enough to have mild cases still run the risk of severe long COVID complications.  To beat that dead horse, I'm 15 months in and I still have issues that prevent me from doing things that were 2nd nature for me.  

 

I just get a tad riled up when people only point out that 1% of death.  

I have lost a friendship trying to convince someone that they are wrong.

My best friend died of Covid April 4,2020.He was a Hall Of Fame athlete in excellent health.I cannot understand how intelligent people believe that they do not need to wear masks or take the vaccine.

[navybankerteacher]

15 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

 

Whatever you call yourself you have opted out of cruises.

Of course they are unlikely to call themselves by the most appropriate terms: uninformed, ignorant, anti-social, etc.

[grandpalarry777]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:21 PM, Flatbush Flyer said:

 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by grandpalarry777

[clo]

2 hours ago, nascarcruiser said:

The chance of dying from Covid19 is 1%. 

But be aware that organ failure can occur.

[clo]

2 hours ago, slidergirl said:

I just get a tad riled up when people only point out that 1% of death.  

I do too. And you really KNOW about this stuff. I just read again about a lung transplant. Sheesh.

[clo]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course they are unlikely to call themselves by the most appropriate terms: uninformed, ignorant, anti-social, etc.

^^^^^

[Pizzasteve]

2 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

I have lost a friendship trying to convince someone that they are wrong.

My best friend died of Covid April 4,2020.He was a Hall Of Fame athlete in excellent health.I cannot understand how intelligent people believe that they do not need to wear masks or take the vaccine.

I am so sorry for your loss.  Please accept our condolences.

[lenquixote66]

23 minutes ago, Pizzasteve said:

I am so sorry for your loss.  Please accept our condolences.

Thank you.

[Hlitner]

2 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

The only problem I have with you post is that it is “US” who, on some future cruise, have to live with their decisions and possibly suffer dire consequences because of them.

So true.  On the other hand, with the high efficacy of the vaccines it is likely that they (and others who have resisted vaccinations) will be the one's to suffer the main consequences.  Those who have worked in the healthcare industry are used to seeing folks routinely suffer because of their own decisions.   When I was an active paramedic (as a young man) the tough thing was learning not to judge folks because of the error of their ways.  It will be no different with COVID.  Those who are vaccinated will generally be quite safe and those who hesitate may be lost.  

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

My sympathy level for the lost is zero. I have listened to the anti-mask, anti-lockdown, anti-vaxx imbeciles for 14 months. Once everyone who wants to be vaccinated gets their shots then I'm quite content to let the virus feast on the imbeciles. 

When I helped run some HIV/AIDs programs we had to deal with this attitude whenever we gave a talk.  Inevitably somebody would raise their hand and say something similar to what you have posted.  My response was to ask the room if anyone was overweight or smoked.  That was generally enough to make the point.  In the final analysis we must simply accept our own imperfections.  Would you want to live in a society where health insurance would not cover anything for which there was contributory negligence?  In that world anyone overweight (which is more then half our population) would not get any coverage for cardiac disease or diabetes.  Smokers would not get health insurance for anything!  Etc etc.

 

Hank

[Lois R]

13 hours ago, lenquixote66 said:

I have lost a friendship trying to convince someone that they are wrong.

My best friend died of Covid April 4,2020.He was a Hall Of Fame athlete in excellent health.I cannot understand how intelligent people believe that they do not need to wear masks or take the vaccine.

Hi Lenny, sending you my heartfelt condolences.🙏

[klfrodo]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

When I helped run some HIV/AIDs programs we had to deal with this attitude whenever we gave a talk.  Inevitably somebody would raise their hand and say something similar to what you have posted.  My response was to ask the room if anyone was overweight or smoked.  That was generally enough to make the point.  In the final analysis we must simply accept our own imperfections.  Would you want to live in a society where health insurance would not cover anything for which there was contributory negligence?  In that world anyone overweight (which is more then half our population) would not get any coverage for cardiac disease or diabetes.  Smokers would not get health insurance for anything!  Etc etc.

 

Hank

Hank,

I understand where K32682 is coming from but you are so right. Some current attitudes totally pizz me off however, I am in no position to throw the first stone. I can only hope that time and education can allow a better, more informed decision.

[ldubs]

On 4/30/2021 at 6:50 AM, cruisemom42 said:

 

Where is the proof that natural immunity is better than the vaccines?

 

 

I don't have your experience/knowledge base but it would seem being naturally immune would have to be better.  Seems the real issue is some jumping to a conclusion without backing that any natural immunity exists or lasts.  Hence the need for the vaccines. 

[navybankerteacher]

The declining rate of vaccinations seem to put an end to the hope that herd immunity can be achieved- while almost guaranteeing that COVID will become endemic: forever with us like the flu, indicating annual shots with.varying rates of effectiveness.   

 

Stupidity wins again.

[cruisemom42]

41 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I don't have your experience/knowledge base but it would seem being naturally immune would have to be better.  Seems the real issue is some jumping to a conclusion without backing that any natural immunity exists or lasts.  Hence the need for the vaccines. 

 

Sorry -- my wording was delightfully vague. What I meant to say is "Where is the proof that with COVID infection, natural immunity is more protective than vaccination?"

 

As far as I can tell, vaccination -- and particularly vaccination with the mRNA vaccines -- appears to confer better protection against variants than the natural antibodies developed as a result of infection with a single strain.

[Charles4515]

19 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

The declining rate of vaccinations seem to put an end to the hope that herd immunity can be achieved- while almost guaranteeing that COVID will become endemic: forever with us like the flu, indicating annual shots with.varying rates of effectiveness.   

 

Stupidity wins again.

 

Yep. 

[ldubs]

10 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Sorry -- my wording was delightfully vague. What I meant to say is "Where is the proof that with COVID infection, natural immunity is more protective than vaccination?"

 

As far as I can tell, vaccination -- and particularly vaccination with the mRNA vaccines -- appears to confer better protection against variants than the natural antibodies developed as a result of infection with a single strain.

 

Thanks.  Seems a lot of folks have lost the truth in vaccines (and probably in a lot of other things as well).  

[lenquixote66]

3 hours ago, Lois R said:

Hi Lenny, sending you my heartfelt condolences.🙏

Thank you Lois R .

[Tudorcruisers]

We are now hearing of people who have had both vaccines yet still catching it and ending up in ICU.   Could the way forward be negative tests before a cruise although not sure if they are 100% either.   Worrying whatever way .

[slidergirl]

45 minutes ago, Tudorcruisers said:

We are now hearing of people who have had both vaccines yet still catching it and ending up in ICU.   Could the way forward be negative tests before a cruise although not sure if they are 100% either.   Worrying whatever way .

There will always be breakthrough cases of people who have received a vaccine.  Not a surprise.  Remember - none of the vaccines available are 100% protective.  

[Sky616]

On 5/1/2021 at 7:12 AM, K32682 said:

Among the side benefits of a mandatory vaccine requirement is not having to cruise with people who are buying into fake science about natural immunity and other wingnut conspiracy theories. One of the first hints is when people declare they are not anti-vaxxers then proceed to tell you why they aren't getting the vaccine and why you shouldn't either. Leaving them on shore sounds good to me.    

 

 

Same as a vaccinated person telling people to get it. Hypocritical much?

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Sky616

[CruiserBruce]

8 minutes ago, Sky616 said:

Same as a vaccinated person telling people to get it. Hypocritical much?

 

There is a significant difference between making a decision to vaccinate, or to not vaccinate, on facts and science, and making the same decision/choice on fake issues and internet rumors. You know, the old microchips in the vaccine, no testing, doesn't work, changes your DNA, survival rate from Covid is 99.7%, etc BS.

[navybankerteacher]

53 minutes ago, Sky616 said:

Same as a vaccinated person telling people to get it. Hypocritical much?

 

No hypocrisy here - just informed, intelligent, responsible people telling the uninformed, stupid, and irresponsible people that they haven’t the right to inflict harm on their betters.