Cruising Without a Vaccination

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Sorry -- my wording was delightfully vague. What I meant to say is "Where is the proof that with COVID infection, natural immunity is more protective than vaccination?"

 

As far as I can tell, vaccination -- and particularly vaccination with the mRNA vaccines -- appears to confer better protection against variants than the natural antibodies developed as a result of infection with a single strain.

It definitely makes sense that that the new technology vaccines would work better against variants than natural immunity which would probably only be effective against the strain it was received from.

[Flatbush Flyer]

40 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

No hypocrisy here - just informed, intelligent, responsible people telling the uninformed, stupid, and irresponsible people that they haven’t the right to inflict harm on their betters.

Maybe the problem is that antivaxxers are confusing their hope for “herd immunity” with what they may actually get: the downside of “natural selection.”

[ontheweb]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

There will always be breakthrough cases of people who have received a vaccine.  Not a surprise.  Remember - none of the vaccines available are 100% protective.  

Nothing is 100%. What the scientists who developed these vaccines have done is remarkable. I still remember while Covid was brand new that the idea of vaccines even if they could be developed was looked at as not very helpful because based on flu vaccines, we would be lucky if they were 50%, We have come a long way except for the hesitancy of too many as to taking the vaccines.

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, K32682 said:

 

I don't care whether you get the shot or not. I just don't want to cruise with you. 

You are too generous and courteous -- his  sort of malignant stupidity puts the thinking world at risk.  We have probably already lost the chance of stamping out covid,  and will probably have to deal with it as a constantly mutating endemic affliction - much like the flu.  The longer sufficient numbers of his sort resist facts the more certain that outcome will be.

[clo]

8 hours ago, slidergirl said:

There will always be breakthrough cases of people who have received a vaccine.  Not a surprise.  Remember - none of the vaccines available are 100% protective.  

I can't remember, have you been vaccinated?

[slidergirl]

34 minutes ago, clo said:

I can't remember, have you been vaccinated?

Yes, I have been.  The end of March.  Moderna.  As soon as it was offered go my age group.  Still can't notice anything with the microchip, though. 😉

[clo]

2 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Still can't notice anything with the microchip, though. 😉

Well, you must certainly be aware of that 🙂 I always wish you the best. Even before you got this demon virus.  Best always, Cath

[Twitchly]

I truly don’t care if others around me are vaccinated or not. I’m vaccinated myself, and I’m happy to cruise with anyone. 

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, Twitchly said:

I truly don’t care if others around me are vaccinated or not. I’m vaccinated myself, and I’m happy to cruise with anyone. 

I care on a cruise because if there is an outbreak onboard it probably will ruin the cruise. I won’t cruise unless passengers and cruise are required to be vaccinated. Looks pretty certain vaccination  will be required to cruise.  

[ontheweb]

7 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Yes, I have been.  The end of March.  Moderna.  As soon as it was offered go my age group.  Still can't notice anything with the microchip, though. 😉

Maybe it just has not yet been activated.😉

 

Seriously, are your long term effects still disappearing after your vaccinations? 

[2wheelin]

22 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

The declining rate of vaccinations seem to put an end to the hope that herd immunity can be achieved- while almost guaranteeing that COVID will become endemic: forever with us like the flu, indicating annual shots with.varying rates of effectiveness.   

 

Stupidity wins again.

In an interview published today with a leading vaccinologist, consultant to—not employee of—the major pharmaceutical companies, it is only big pharma who suggest booster shots. Scientists have seen no evidence of such a need. Perpetuating the booster shot rumor, false information, only supports hesitancy for vaccination. And the only similarity these vaccines have with flu vaccine is that they can both be administered with a needle. Lol

BTW, the adjectives you repeatedly use to describe people who disagree with you reveal more about you than others. It’s not a positive picture. Anyone who displays those attitudes only serves to water down their own expressed opinions.

[wowzz]

32 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

In an interview published today with a leading vaccinologist, consultant to—not employee of—the major pharmaceutical companies, it is only big pharma who suggest booster shots. Scientists have seen no evidence of such a need. Perpetuating the booster shot rumor, false information, only supports hesitancy for vaccination. And the only similarity these vaccines have with flu vaccine is that they can both be administered with a needle. Lol

BTW, the adjectives you repeatedly use to describe people who disagree with you reveal more about you than others. It’s not a positive picture. Anyone who displays those attitudes only serves to water down their own expressed opinions.

Well, the in the UK it looks as if booster shots will be given to the over 70s.

https://www.bmj.com/content/373/bmj.n1116

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, 2wheelin said:

In an interview published today with a leading vaccinologist, consultant to—not employee of—the major pharmaceutical companies, it is only big pharma who suggest booster shots. Scientists have seen no evidence of such a need. Perpetuating the booster shot rumor, false information, only supports hesitancy for vaccination. And the only similarity these vaccines have with flu vaccine is that they can both be administered with a needle. Lol

BTW, the adjectives you repeatedly use to describe people who disagree with you reveal more about you than others. It’s not a positive picture. Anyone who displays those attitudes only serves to water down their own expressed opinions.

 

You mention an interview but you don't say with who or give a source. That seems less than forthright. I would like to read the interview. 

 

I am sure that Pharma would like to keep selling shots but isn't it better to be prepared in case a booster is needed rather unprepared assuming it won't be?

[CruiserBruce]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

You mention an interview but you don't say with who or give a source. That seems less than forthright. I would like to read the interview. 

 

I am sure that Pharma would like to keep selling shots but isn't it better to be prepared in case a booster is needed rather unprepared assuming it won't be?

Plus this is just one person's opinion on the topic. I know other specialists...like Fauci, have discussed the possibility of booster shots. So I don't know that it can be said only big pharma is the only one discussing booster shots.

[slidergirl]

7 hours ago, ontheweb said:

Maybe it just has not yet been activated.😉

 

Seriously, are your long term effects still disappearing after your vaccinations? 

Thank you for asking.

Overall, I feel better.  But, my demon cough won't go away.  Have to go see an ENT about it - all the usual drugs haven't worked and my breathing exercises haven't helped.  I still get little bouts of vertigo.  And, I wobble a little when I walk sometimes.  My "brain fog" is getting better.  Not enough to be depressed about, but enough to be pissed off about them.  

[2wheelin]

5 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

You mention an interview but you don't say with who or give a source. That seems less than forthright. I would like to read the interview. 

 

I am sure that Pharma would like to keep selling shots but isn't it better to be prepared in case a booster is needed rather unprepared assuming it won't be?

Sorry, unable to post a link but here is the title: Why vaccine demand is slowing: Q&A with Dr. Greg Poland   published in postbulletin.com.  You may have heard of the Mayo Clinic. They also developed a widely used PCR covid test.

Yes better to be prepared for whatever comes along but many people hear that and are now convinced it is a given.

[frantic36]

22 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

Sorry, unable to post a link but here is the title: Why vaccine demand is slowing: Q&A with Dr. Greg Poland   published in postbulletin.com.  You may have heard of the Mayo Clinic. They also developed a widely used PCR covid test.

Yes better to be prepared for whatever comes along but many people hear that and are now convinced it is a given.

 

 

Let me help you out with posting the link...

 

https://www.postbulletin.com/newsmd/coronavirus/7007343-Why-COVID-19-vaccine-demand-is-slowing-QA-with-Dr.-Greg-Poland

 

Dr Poland didn't say there was absolutely no need for booster injections he said they don't have the data yet to confirm that. Though he did say it was wise for Pharma to be prepared with boosters to variants in case they were needed.

[Charles4515]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

 

The fact that we are now virtually certain to fail to achieve herd immunity means that the virus is going to be with us permanently as it continues to evolve.  Our hope to stamp it out (thin enough to begin with) has been killed by the reluctance of significant numbers to seek immunization.

 

The adjectives describing the thought patterns of the stupid, uninformed, selfish deniers of fact are hardly sufficient to properly discuss the harm they do to everyone else.

While it is true that a return to normal is slowed by reluctance to take vaccinations and that such reluctance harms everyone, herd immunity is certain to fail because the pandemic is global. Much of the world has not yet received any vaccines to give. 

[clo]

9 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Much of the world has not yet received any vaccines to give. 

Do you know what some of those countries are? TIA.

[capriccio]

23 minutes ago, clo said:

Do you know what some of those countries are? TIA.

Easily googled.  Here are some results:

• in mid-February it was widely reported that 130 countries had received no vaccines.
• you can check the New York Times World Vaccination Tracker (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/covid-vaccinations-tracker.html) for detailed information.  Many African countries have yet to start vaccinating in any large numbers.
• Haiti as of mid-April as not received any vaccine.  Source:  https://thegrio.com/2021/04/10/haiti-no-covid-vaccines-yet/

[2wheelin]

14 hours ago, frantic36 said:

 

 

Let me help you out with posting the link...

 

https://www.postbulletin.com/newsmd/coronavirus/7007343-Why-COVID-19-vaccine-demand-is-slowing-QA-with-Dr.-Greg-Poland

 

Dr Poland didn't say there was absolutely no need for booster injections he said they don't have the data yet to confirm that. Though he did say it was wise for Pharma to be prepared with boosters to variants in case they were needed.

Thanks. I just didn’t have time to go back to it last night. And I don’t think I implied that he said there was absolutely no need for boosters.

[frantic36]

3 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

Thanks. I just didn’t have time to go back to it last night. And I don’t think I implied that he said there was absolutely no need for boosters.

 No worries.

[2wheelin]

13 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

It is imply untrue that "it is only big pharma who suggest booster shots"; and a mindless non-sequitor to claim that booster shot discussion supports hesitancy. You should try to inform yourself.

 

The fact that we are now virtually certain to fail to achieve herd immunity means that the virus is going to be with us permanently as it continues to evolve.  Our hope to stamp it out (thin enough to begin with) has been killed by the reluctance of significant numbers to seek immunization.

 

The adjectives describing the thought patterns of the stupid, uninformed, selfish deniers of fact are hardly sufficient to properly discuss the harm they do to everyone else.

I am informed and anyone who actually listens to others and reads will experience comments about not wanting to get the vaccine if it means needing a booster every year.

[navybankerteacher]

2 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

I am informed and anyone who actually listens to others and reads will experience comments about not wanting to get the vaccine if it means needing a booster every year.

Getting the vaccine does not mean needing a booster every year — there is no logical connection.

 

Saying that is comparable to saying that eating food today means that you will need food tomorrow.

 

Getting a vaccine means minimizing your risk of being negatively impacted by COVID while helping reduce the risk to others.

 

The fact that COVID is likely to be with us indefinitely means that we will indefinitely need to protect ourselves from it.

 

p.s. Of course listening to others and reading means you will “experience comments”.  The point is:  you should try to listen to people who make sense and avoid reading drivel.

[JRG]

33 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Getting a vaccine means minimizing your risk of being negatively impacted by COVID while helping reduce the risk to others.

 

Agreed.    I'm with you.  I know that,  and you know that and so do others here.   How do we convince the non-vaxxing others without encroaching their value and beliefs.   There is no right answer.   For example,  there may be health,  citizenship or even criminal history reasons why individuals don't want to show their drivers license or id or get the dna sampled.   (is that happening,  I don't think so but how do I really know for sure).    For an interesting example to muse:

 

Think of how many cold cases and unsolved crimes could be solved by matching dna from evidence to dna from vaccinations.    I think you will see that happening in other places in the world.

 

As for cruising without a vaccination,  if you know anybody who is reluctant,   tell them that 

it is better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.