Has HAL decided yet? Will they require vaccinations?

[Heartgrove]

3 hours ago, BruceMuzz said:

Not sure about your source of information, but you have been mis-informed.

 

My original source was a "Reuters" article.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/one-positive-covid-19-test-japan-luxury-cruise-ship-passengers-disembarking-2021-04-30/

 

The Asuka II has since arrived back in Yokohama. Here are two Asian area articles after the Asuka II arrived back in Yokohama. 

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/05/01/national/cruise-ship-coronavirus-asuka-ii/

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Cruise-ship-returns-to-Yokohama-after-man-s-positive-COVID-test

 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Heartgrove

[KirkNC]

3 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

 

My original source was a "Reuters" article. The Asuka II has since arrived back in Yokohama. Here are local articles after the Asuka II arrived back in Yokohama. 

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/05/01/national/cruise-ship-coronavirus-asuka-ii/

 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/Cruise-ship-returns-to-Yokohama-after-man-s-positive-COVID-test

And this is the problem.  If cruise ships are going to return to port because one passenger fall ill, the industry is in trouble.  But if 100% of those on board are vaccinated and someone falls ill you can continue the cruise because any transmission is highly unlikely and symptoms for the infected passenger should be relatively mild.

[CI66774]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

And this is the problem.  If cruise ships are going to return to port because one passenger fall ill, the industry is in trouble.  But if 100% of those on board are vaccinated and someone falls ill you can continue the cruise because any transmission is highly unlikely and symptoms for the infected passenger should be relatively mild.

How do we know it’s highly unlikely? To my knowledge, no studies have been

conducted among the vaccinated in a cruise-like environment. The bottom line is there is risk associated with everything we do. Stopping in a port and being surrounded by the unvaccinated is a risk. Having people onboard who have tested negative but aren’t vaccinated for various reasons is a risk. Just because you’re vaccinated doesn’t mean you’re immune and doesn’t mean you can’t spread it to others who have been vaccinated. We don’t know the level of risk associated with this, but there always will be risks.

[KirkNC]

26 minutes ago, CI66774 said:

How do we know it’s highly unlikely? To my knowledge, no studies have been

conducted among the vaccinated in a cruise-like environment. The bottom line is there is risk associated with everything we do. Stopping in a port and being surrounded by the unvaccinated is a risk. Having people onboard who have tested negative but aren’t vaccinated for various reasons is a risk. Just because you’re vaccinated doesn’t mean you’re immune and doesn’t mean you can’t spread it to others who have been vaccinated. We don’t know the level of risk associated with this, but there always will be risks.

I agree about risk.  I say highly unlikely because if a vaccine is 95% effective it is extremely difficult for spread to occur among that vaccinated population.  That should apply to any environment.

[iancal]

We would not.  But we are not going to spend any time worrying about it until such time as cruising starts up for us.  It might not be an issue 18-24 months from now.

 

We definitely would not make a final payment on a cruise today if the cruise line had not yet announced that covid jabs were mandatory. 

 

 I doubt that at this point we would even bother booking a future cruise on a cruise line that had not indicated that covid jabs were mandatory on all sailings. 

 

It is all about choice.  Lots of opinions on this, both customers and vendors.  You simply have to move forward with what you think is best for you and not try to convince others that your choice is the right one for everybody.

Edited May 3, 2021 by iancal

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, KirkNC said:

And this is the problem.  If cruise ships are going to return to port because one passenger fall ill, the industry is in trouble.  But if 100% of those on board are vaccinated and someone falls ill you can continue the cruise because any transmission is highly unlikely and symptoms for the infected passenger should be relatively mild.

Hasn't the CDC used the term threshold when speaking of whether a cruise would have to return to the home port? I don't believe they have ever said one case, and it's all over.

 

Of course, we do not know what the threshold will be. Is it a specific number, or is it a percentage of passengers and crew so the size of the ship would matter in the determination?

[KirkNC]

4 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Hasn't the CDC used the term threshold when speaking of whether a cruise would have to return to the home port? I don't believe they have ever said one case, and it's all over.

 

Of course, we do not know what the threshold will be. Is it a specific number, or is it a percentage of passengers and crew so the size of the ship would matter in the determination?

I don’t think I have read anything where CDC dictates procedures for when a passenger get Covid but in practice, when as few as one passenger gets it, the cruise is over for everyone.  Here is a recent example in Japan 

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/05/01/national/cruise-ship-coronavirus-asuka-ii/

 

 

[ontheweb]

6 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I don’t think I have read anything where CDC dictates procedures for when a passenger get Covid but in practice, when as few as one passenger gets it, the cruise is over for everyone.  Here is a recent example in Japan 

 

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2021/05/01/national/cruise-ship-coronavirus-asuka-ii/

 

 

CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

 

If you use the find function for threshold, it will take you to  page 31. On page 31 continued on page 32, it says the cruise line must inform the passenger that if the threshold for Covid is met the ship will have to return to the home port.

[iancal]

HAL is not exactly know in the industry for making timely decisions about anything.

 

And when they do, it is usually half measures.

Edited May 3, 2021 by iancal

[KirkNC]

21 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

 

If you use the find function for threshold, it will take you to  page 31. On page 31 continued on page 32, it says the cruise line must inform the passenger that if the threshold for Covid is met the ship will have to return to the home port.

There you go, I had missed that.  Now what will that threshold be?

[SumoCitrus]

Check out this link:

 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/cruise/instructions-local-agreements.html

 

 

It appears the CDC is stopping short of mandating vaccines for all crew and passengers.  I heard the governor of FL is already planning a legal challenge if the CDC attempted to mandate vaccinations for cruise passengers. Also, does HAL or CCL really want to get into the business of being a custodian of passengers' health data? There must be expensive compliance obligations if they start doing that.

 

I'm guessing this will all be recommendation only versus mandatory - with the exception of local governments at foreign ports. Of course they maintain their sovereignty and can deny entry to anyone on any criteria they see fit. I think this suggests my theory about "ship days in port" for unvaccinated folks might end up being correct. We shall see.

Edited May 3, 2021 by SumoCitrus

[rucrazy]

I was just told by the cruise line that they will sail under the guidance of the CDC regulations when it comes to traveling from the USA and from whatever the local guidelines are from individual countries they may embark or call on during a cruise.

They also stated at this point in time even where they are sailing with 100% vaccination I was advised to still pack and be prepared to mask up,

[idiebabe]

50 minutes ago, SumoCitrus said:

I heard the governor of FL is already planning a legal challenge if the CDC attempted to mandate vaccinations for cruise passengers.

Could you please post a recent link where DeSantis himself is saying this in an actual Interview and not a news article.  Thanks! 

 

@rucrazy  Is there an Official Announcement or was this told to you by your PCC?  Thanks!

Edited May 3, 2021 by idiebabe

[rucrazy]

10 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

@rucrazy  Is there an Official Announcement or was this told to you by your PCC?  Thanks!

This was speculation from a PCC NOT an official Announcement. 

But that speculation was based on what they are currently doing in foreign ports of embarkation.

 

My take away was, they are going to do only what is required and nothing above that., which for me is disappointing.. maybe that is just me

[ncgolferette]

I can’t recall if this has been addressed but if mandatory vaccinations are required how will the cruise line determine if the vaccination is still effective for a given individual.  For example I  was completely vaccinated in February and have my ID card. Could I board a ship in October eight months post vaccination where the immunity might have gone away but I have a card stating I’m vaccinated.  I think there are just too many unknowns still at this point to debate whether vaccinations should be mandatory.

[ontheweb]

3 hours ago, KirkNC said:

There you go, I had missed that.  Now what will that threshold be?

Yes, that is the question. Will it be a specific number, or will it be a percentage of those onboard which would make a higher number for larger ships?

[rucrazy]

12 minutes ago, ncgolferette said:

For example I  was completely vaccinated in February and have my ID card. Could I board a ship in October eight months post vaccination where the immunity might have gone away but I have a card stating I’m vaccinated.

If you embark from an American Port then I would imagine the US CDC guidelines would be observed (meaning if booster shots are required then you would need to document those as well)

[KirkNC]

6 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

Yes, that is the question. Will it be a specific number, or will it be a percentage of those onboard which would make a higher number for larger ships?

I would think an unvaccinated ship would have a very low threshold, maybe as low as one.  A vaccinated ship could have a higher number given the low likelihood of spread or significant symptoms. 

[Heartgrove]

7 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I would think an unvaccinated ship would have a very low threshold, maybe as low as one.  A vaccinated ship could have a higher number given the low likelihood of spread or significant symptoms. 

 

The Japanese use one as the threshhold to cancel a cruise, which is what they did with the Asuka II over the weekend. They have not begun to vaccinate their general populace. Therefore everyone that was on the cruise has not been vaccinated. 

[idiebabe]

1 hour ago, rucrazy said:

This was speculation from a PCC NOT an official Announcement. 

But that speculation was based on what they are currently doing in foreign ports of embarkation.

 

My take away was, they are going to do only what is required and nothing above that., which for me is disappointing.. maybe that is just me

 I honestly think they just don't know yet.  My PCC told me weeks ago that no decision was made on Vaccine  and they would be following the Guidelines, etc.   Seth and Arnold Donald pretty much said the same.  However, with HAL's Itinerary and Passenger age group they may require 100% Vaccinated.  Right now it is just speculation! 

 

There's a lot of good news though for the Cruise Industry with the two Ships coming into Galveston yesterday.  Beautiful sight when the two Ships sailed into the Port of Galveston with a huge Welcome from the Port and hundreds of people who came to Welcome them Home!  Christine Duffy was down in Galveston today and is very optimistic that the Ships will be sailing in July for Carnival.  Two from Galveston and one from Miami for July (as of now). NCL is also confident.  Carnival Corp. is working this week on Protocols, etc. and lots going on behind the scenes between all the Cruise Lines and CDC.

 

Hopefully, in the next couple of weeks there will be an Official Announcement and we will know for sure what the Protocols will be for HAL and all the speculation can end!  🤞

[rucrazy]

23 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

Hopefully, in the next couple of weeks there will be an Official Announcement and we will know for sure what the Protocols will be for HAL and all the speculation can end!  🤞

Total agreement!

[kazu]

59 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

Hopefully, in the next couple of weeks there will be an Official Announcement and we will know for sure what the Protocols will be for HAL and all the speculation can end!  🤞

 

Completely agree.  Hope it happens 🤞 

 

That would help us all so much.,  

[CruiserBruce]

Carnival just announced their first two ships back will have fully vaccinated crew.

[rucrazy]

28 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

Carnival just announced their first two ships back will have fully vaccinated crew.

That is half the battle!

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, KirkNC said:

I would think an unvaccinated ship would have a very low threshold, maybe as low as one.  A vaccinated ship could have a higher number given the low likelihood of spread or significant symptoms. 

I had not thought of that factor. I only considered a specific number or a percentage, but I can see where that might make a difference. That would be another good reason to have a fully, or at least as close as possible, vaccinated population on a ship.