New CDC guidelines for simulated cruises

[Stallion]

yeah there is a informed consent provision referenced with regarding to each "volunteer"-not sure I saw indemnification though-but I'd bet there is a definite limitation of liability

 

oh on second thought this is the CDC recommendation-the final cruise contract would be where you would find the indemnification/limited liability provisions.

 

But the informed consent like you'd see before a medical procedure is required by the CDC

Edited May 5, 2021 by Stallion

[sandebeach]

5 minutes ago, jrapps said:

I guess that was the clarification I was asking..is it that no kids will be allowed, or they will but their parents must consent.

 

Seems it it's the former, then it isn't a valid test

I don't think kids under 18 are allowed on the test cruises. 

• All volunteer passengers must be at least eighteen years old or older on the day of the simulation and at the time that their consent to participate is obtained.
• The cruise ship operator must ensure all volunteer passengers have either:
  • Proof of being fully vaccinated against COVID-19 using an S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized vaccine or a vaccine product that has received emergency use listing from the World Health Organization (WHO); or
  • If not fully vaccinated, written documentation from a healthcare provider or self-certified statement that the volunteer passenger has no medical conditions that would place the volunteer at high risk for severe COVID-19 as determined through CDC guidance.

[Pratique]

1 minute ago, Stallion said:

yeah there is a informed consent provision referenced with regarding to each "volunteer"-not sure I saw indemnification though-but I'd bet there is a definite limitation of liability

Agreed "limitation of liability" but unlikely to be a complete waiver.

[Ocean Boy]

12 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

I think you said you're a lawyer, so what do you say the odds are that all of the Guinea, I mean volunteers will have to sign an indemnification for the cruise lines so nobody sues because, you know...

I would say the odds are higher than the percentage requirement for vaccinated crew.

[smokeybandit]

24 minutes ago, JABTPS said:

So if I read this all correctly, if cruise line goes the route of restricting vaccine requirements to crew and passengers, all these requirements are out and can continue as a normal cruise.

 

I find it a joke that their excursion requirement for the test sails says " only countries with level 1"!  They sure made it impractical as they quickly changed most countries prior to the release of this document.

No, you can't have a normal cruise. You can just skip test cruises. They'll still make every passenger act as if they aren't vaccinated.  At least through the end of the CSO.

[Anton]

From the instruction for restricted revenue cruises under Mask Use: "While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order."

 

So nobody will not be allowed to remove their mask once seated for dinner and leave it off for the entire meal.  That's not going to go well.

[Ocean Boy]

4 minutes ago, Anton said:

From the instruction for restricted revenue cruises under Mask Use: "While the Order permits temporarily removing a mask for brief periods of time while eating or drinking, removal of the mask for extended meal service or beverage consumption would constitute a violation of this Order."

 

So nobody will not be allowed to remove their mask once seated for dinner and leave it off for the entire meal.  That's not going to go well.

And makes this bullet point a bit hard to achieve.... 

 

• Remind passengers and crew not to touch their masks when wearing them.

[ChutChut]

2 hours ago, harkinmr said:

No. Test cruises are only required if the cruise lines do not choose to proceed with vaccinated sailings.  Something tells me that short of "ok you guys, off you go no requirements or protocols" would be a "joke".  So predictable.

Florida won't permit vaccine certs. so cruises will have to conduct the simulations. However, I suspect CDC, Florida, etc. will come to some compromise soon.

[smokeybandit]

10 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

And makes this bullet point a bit hard to achieve.... 

 

• Remind passengers and crew not to touch their masks when wearing them.

 

Amazing the CDC isn't even following their own science on surface transmission.

[radarcruiser]

So I'm waiting (impatiently) for the rules to be posted for our Adventure sailing from Nassau.  If there's a requirement for us to wear masks outside (and on the pool deck), I will cancel and take a FCC.  We are already jumping through lots of hoops to go on this cruise.  Here's a short list:

• COVID vaccine required
• Bahamas Health Visa
• US requirement for test prior to US re-entry
• No adequate pier facilities in Nassau (I've heard we will have to check in at the Hilton)
• Airfare to Nassau
• Masks in the airports and on the airplanes
• Sketchy transfers to/from the airport in Nassau
• Likely very restricted shore excursions
• Lounge and other venues with restricted capacities
• Etc., etc. etc.
• More etc. to be decided

I was excited to go cruising again, and am willing to put up with a lot, but but mask wearing outside (when I've been vaccinated) will be the deal breaker for me. 

[Ocean Boy]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Amazing the CDC isn't even following their own science on surface transmission.

Beaurocrats is what they behave like. I'm sure the worshipers will soon jump on me for that comment.

[Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, radarcruiser said:

So I'm waiting (impatiently) for the rules to be posted for our Adventure sailing from Nassau.  If there's a requirement for us to wear masks outside (and on the pool deck), I will cancel and take a FCC.  We are already jumping through lots of hoops to go on this cruise.  Here's a short list:

• COVID vaccine required
• Bahamas Health Visa
• US requirement for test prior to US re-entry
• No adequate pier facilities in Nassau (I've heard we will have to check in at the Hilton)
• Airfare to Nassau
• Masks in the airports and on the airplanes
• Sketchy transfers to/from the airport in Nassau
• Likely very restricted shore excursions
• Lounge and other venues with restricted capacities
• Etc., etc. etc.
• More etc. to be decided

I was excited to go cruising again, and am willing to put up with a lot, but but mask wearing outside (when I've been vaccinated) will be the deal breaker for me. 

You and many others will probably do the same, doesn't sound like much fun does it? So much not worth it.

[Ocean Boy]

4 minutes ago, radarcruiser said:

So I'm waiting (impatiently) for the rules to be posted for our Adventure sailing from Nassau.  If there's a requirement for us to wear masks outside (and on the pool deck), I will cancel and take a FCC.  We are already jumping through lots of hoops to go on this cruise.  Here's a short list:

• COVID vaccine required
• Bahamas Health Visa
• US requirement for test prior to US re-entry
• No adequate pier facilities in Nassau (I've heard we will have to check in at the Hilton)
• Airfare to Nassau
• Masks in the airports and on the airplanes
• Sketchy transfers to/from the airport in Nassau
• Likely very restricted shore excursions
• Lounge and other venues with restricted capacities
• Etc., etc. etc.
• More etc. to be decided

I was excited to go cruising again, and am willing to put up with a lot, but but mask wearing outside (when I've been vaccinated) will be the deal breaker for me. 

That list is 11 bullet points too long for me. I wouldn't do it for free.

[HBCcruiser]

1 hour ago, sandebeach said:

A wet cloth mask can make it difficult to breathe and likely will not work correctly.

I had to LOL at this one. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤡.

[Ocean Boy]

6 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

I had to LOL at this one. 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤡.

Who says the CDC doesn't follow the science?

[HBCcruiser]

22 minutes ago, smokeybandit said:

 

Amazing the CDC isn't even following their own science on surface transmission.

Agree. From the CDC website:

If you’ve been fully vaccinated:

• You can gather indoors with fully vaccinated people without wearing a mask or staying 6 feet apart.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/fully-vaccinated-guidance.html

 

 

Edited May 5, 2021 by HBCcruiser

[HBCcruiser]

22 minutes ago, radarcruiser said:

was excited to go cruising again, and am willing to put up with a lot, but but mask wearing outside (when I've been vaccinated) will be the deal breaker for me. 

 

I am guessing RCI will follow the rules of the Bahamas NOT the CDC. The CDC has no jurisdiction outside of the US. I agree with others that the CDC is not following their own guidelines for vaccinated people.

[Sunshine3601]

1 hour ago, sandebeach said:

CDC kept the part about wearing masks on the pool deck:

Requirements

To reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2, cruise ship operators must:

• Provide passengers and crew with information on how to properly wear, take off, and clean cloth masks.
• Remind passengers and crew not to touch their masks when wearing them.
• Position posters educating passengers on how to properly wear masks in high traffic areas throughout the ship
• Ensure bathers wear masks while congregating outside of recreational water facilities (RWFs) and while seated on the pool deck area. Masks do not need to be worn in the water, e.g., in RWFs or while swimming in the ocean. A wet cloth mask can make it difficult to breathe and likely will not work correctly. This means it is particularly important for bathers to maintain social distancing of at least 6 feet (2 meters) when in the water with others who are not traveling companions or part of the same family.

Is this for simulated cruises with non-vaccinated passengers or both types of cruises?

If I have to wear a mask while sunbathing I sure hope my balcony is on the sunny side of the ship 

[HBCcruiser]

1 minute ago, Sunshine3601 said:

Is this for simulated cruises with non-vaccinated passengers or both types of cruises?

If I have to wear a mask while sunbathing I sure hope my balcony is on the sunny side of the ship 

 

Quoted from CDC:  "Today’s guidance provides technical instructions for simulated voyages. This includes..."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0505-conditional-sailing-order.html

[radarcruiser]

9 minutes ago, HBCcruiser said:

 

I am guessing RCI will follow the rules of the Bahamas NOT the CDC. The CDC has no jurisdiction outside of the US. I agree with others that the CDC is not following their own guidelines for vaccinated people.

HBC, I hope you are correct (assuming the Bahamas rules are less insane), but I suspect RCCL will be in the mode of complying fully with the CDC so they get brownie points to resume US sailings.

[Sunshine3601]

1 minute ago, HBCcruiser said:

 

Quoted from CDC:  "Today’s guidance provides technical instructions for simulated voyages. This includes..."

 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/s0505-conditional-sailing-order.html

Thank you!

[HBCcruiser]

Just now, radarcruiser said:

HBC, I hope you are correct (assuming the Bahamas rules are less insane), but I suspect RCCL will be in the mode of complying fully with the CDC so they get brownie points to resume US sailings.

 

I think they want happy customers so they can continue selling the summer cruises outside of the US. I also think they are skipping the simulated voyages all together. They are vaccinating crew members as we speak. It seems much easier and faster to go the 95% vaccinated route. The newly release CDC guidance is for the simulated voyages only. 

[NavArch64]

Read COVID-19 Operations Manual for Simulated and Restricted Voyages under the Framework for Conditional Sailing Order | Quarantine | CDC

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, jrapps said:

So no kids on test cruises? How is that a "test" of how a cruise would operate?

It's not intended to be a pleasure cruise.  Any volunteer had better understand that it will be anything but, and will be a constant test of protocols, restrictions, outbreak procedures, isolation and quarantine procedures, and even a test return to port putting a quick ending to the cruise.  They don't call it a "test" cruise for nothing. 🙄  Cruise lines aren't going to risk any vulnerable person, including children, getting COVID.

[harkinmr]

1 hour ago, ChutChut said:

Florida won't permit vaccine certs. so cruises will have to conduct the simulations. However, I suspect CDC, Florida, etc. will come to some compromise soon.

We will see.  Florida doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.  If DeSantis does push it, there won't be cruising from Florida for some time.  CDC does NOT have to compromise with the State of Florida.  Florida's beef is with the cruise lines on the vaccine requirement.